at those rates, it may be cheaper to 'grow' an Amir-clone in the Swiss alps
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Nubert NuVero 60 Speaker Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
ASR Europe? Just looked at Klippel's price list: 30 k€ at least.
Second thought: a fund, and if 1K€ pp 30 would be enough (enough things here to go the bay as I need them no more to join the fund).
Main problem: where could this be installed and, more important, who has time and sufficient experience to do the measurements?
Second thought: a fund, and if 1K€ pp 30 would be enough (enough things here to go the bay as I need them no more to join the fund).
Main problem: where could this be installed and, more important, who has time and sufficient experience to do the measurements?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #123
That is just the base box. Full system cost is 100k.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #124
That is indeed the main barrier. Speaker testing is much more involved and time consuming to boot.
But I have to note that my "cheap" 150 € DHL shipping took a month. It's also worth to mention that DHL is in my opinion the most trustworthy and reliable parcel service in Germany. Admittedly I haven't thought of DHL not existing in the US a few days after I shipped it. So I kind of expected something like this to happen. I checked USPS but there it was also about 250 $.
But where does FedEX get those 900 $ from? For this you could book a flight, have a small holiday in Spain and just take the speaker with you.
But where does FedEX get those 900 $ from? For this you could book a flight, have a small holiday in Spain and just take the speaker with you.
Is at it is.
If i was retired really would volunteer but not yet.
On physical aspect a hybrid construct could help: nobody uses Klippel 24/7, and spare time would give a chance for out-of-duty tasks.
But sourcing a crew is something completely different, I'm aware of.
Btw. the 100k€ is triple of my base calculation, but calculating 1k€ per 100 funders ... give bay a chance for all the plunder never needed last ten years and go for it.
Any discussion of this point in other forums (don't follow any) and conclusions?
Maybe there should be a separate discussion thread about Kippel prices and training? I'd be genuinely interested in it, but what draws me to this topic are the insights about Nubert, a brand I was always curious about. In fact I heard so much great stuff about them from friends in Germany (and very high ratings in German audio mags) that I considered setting up a shop and website to bring them into the USA (clearly I dismissed the idea).
Kippel by the way publishes some limitations in their application notes, but I doubt these speakers fall into that.
Kippel by the way publishes some limitations in their application notes, but I doubt these speakers fall into that.
I would have the space and for sure would take the time if someone funds a Klippel system!
More serious - there are systems around, maybe we schould check rates how much a single measurement costs. Or we build a company concept around "investors" and everybody get's money back when paid measurements are done with the system.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #129
In US the cost is around $2,000.
If we are lucky, that might happen. A knowledgable member of our community may do that - at first, it's planned to remeasure the Vero60 for validation reasons, as there is no NFS. Will see, how it turns out - but we have so many interesting speakers here in Europe...To your post scriptum: we desperately need a "European Amir" in addition to ASR to cover all those local brands. At least to push them into science based engineering or to sort out the snake oil.
Sorry for being of topic: back on track now
900$, Jesus...
Does anyone have a good educated guess what's the reason for this 900 Hz resonance and distortion? It looks to me like the most unfortunate issue of this speaker.
Considering the frequency itself it can only be related something to the BMR, but since BMR have low resonances in their piston-zone and all the spec sheets I see show a clean rolling off of the frequency ranges and dispersion. Are these turbulences caused by the woofer?
The wavelenght of 900 Hz is about 37cm, maybe it's more like the top and bottom edges off the baffle? I am just wondering if I might have the same issue with my larger NuVero 170 that have two BMR in a D'Appolito around the tweeter and also asymetrically placed. The top and buttom baffle are way further away though.
Considering the frequency itself it can only be related something to the BMR, but since BMR have low resonances in their piston-zone and all the spec sheets I see show a clean rolling off of the frequency ranges and dispersion. Are these turbulences caused by the woofer?
The wavelenght of 900 Hz is about 37cm, maybe it's more like the top and bottom edges off the baffle? I am just wondering if I might have the same issue with my larger NuVero 170 that have two BMR in a D'Appolito around the tweeter and also asymetrically placed. The top and buttom baffle are way further away though.
As I recall, when Amir first obtained the Klippel, we encountered a comparable artifact. In the end, it was concluded to be acoustic interference due to a directivity error. See the Buchardt S400 review. If not, then my bet would be an internal cabinet resonance. That is easy to simulate if the cabinet and port dimensions are known.
p.s. On the Buchardt S400, the MKII did not exhibit. @Mads Buchardt may know what caused it originally.
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Doenerkunde
Active Member
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- Dec 29, 2022
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I have a question for @amirm about the lack of attenuation of the woofer: Were you able to measure the woofer on it´s own without the midrange playing? The manual of the Nuvero 60 suggests that the bi wiring terminal groups the woofer and midrange together. If that´s the case, I suppose the lack of attenuation might just be the midrange driver. We see a somewhat similar pattern between woofer and midrange in the nearfield measurements in the review of the Hivi 3.1A (also a 3 way bookshelf with a small wide radiation 3 inch midrange dome):
Hivi 3.1A DIY Speaker With Sehlin Mod Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Swan Hivi 3.1A DIY Speaker kit with modified crossover by Sehlin Sound Solutions. It was kindly sent to me by @Mudjock as tested. The kit by itself goes for US $300 including Prime shipping. Unusual for a speaker kit, it comes with everything...
www.audiosciencereview.com
EXIF68
Active Member
Enclosed you find the document about the Nubert Philosophy about speaker building.
this document is in German language, I don’t know if available in english.
this document is in German language, I don’t know if available in english.
thewas
Master Contributor
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Where there no customs and VAT in any direction as these are often higher than the shipping when sending something to the EU?Shipping there with DHL: 150 €
Shipping back with FedEX: 250 € (Amir took the fast lane out of kindness, which is totally okay with me and regular price would have been about 210 € already anyway)
So in essence 400,00 € flat, kind of painful, but I still don't regret it. Knowledge is just another part of hifi equipment
Speaker was supposed to arrive today but it didn't. Another weekend without surround
Funnily enough, Fedex is still very optimistic about their schedule
View attachment 369989
Edit: But yes, we desperately need an ASR testing branch in EU. I know at least two very dedicated and knowledgeble persons, issue is they don't have an NFS. But that's basically the only thing they lack.
DJBonoBobo
Major Contributor
You can see from the document that Nubert has always presented itself as very technically competent and well-researched and has also placed great value on neutrality in comparison to hi-fi competitors. (That´s why i bought Nubert speakers in the past before i knew studio gear).
The document also shows measurements in some places and advertises that Nubert's measurements are better than those of some competitors.
I think that Nubert would have been predestined to be the first hi-fi manufacturer in Germany to publish detailed measurements of all its own loudspeakers. It's a pity that they still don't do this today. Perhaps it's better for marketing if you present yourself as tech-savvy, but don't distract the buyer with too many facts from all the shiny press-awards?
Actually currently they are moving partly away from that path, as for example in newer products documentation is not as good as in the past (ie technical details) and they began to sell some products with a taste of snake oil ("highend speaker cable"). Also as they moved into the segment of electronics and active loudspeakers there arent all products as good and have some difficulties / bugs. The latest shifts in managements shows that there are some topics that have to be resolved, also communication has become much worse. For example they suddendly closed their (for many years) well known own onlineforum last year (that's why some of the old users found a new place at lautsprecherforum.eu, like me and anphex). So some former fans have become skeptical, probably also partly a reason for sending this speaker to asr. Just to give a short description of the backgrounds.
In Germany tax is already included in everything. And for the customs, what I did is just declaring this as a testing sample and provided an honest text on what's on the inside and what's going to happen to it. Worked perfectly fine.
Considering they doubled down on china assembled electronics for their gadgets and active speakers I am not surprised the documentation gets stripped down. I wouldn't be surprised if the assemblers from china provided bad documentations to Nubert, and Nubert in turn just had to make do with the stuff they got. The NuVero series is, fortunately, from better times. Still I'd love to see the new super high end NuZeo measured.
Edit:
I am going to stick to my Nubert system btw. Long term. I considered swapping the whole system for Genelec ONES but it would be a new hassle of a setup. I'd also need subwoofers, a pair of NuVero 170 are basically a set of 4 actual front subwoofers reaching 23Hz at -3dB(!!). Also getting rid of a large hifi system is a project in its own and considering loss of value I'd have to pay about 5-8 grand additionally, and what would I gain from the Genelec ones? A point source speaker with more linearity and narrower disperions, but do I really want/need that? I can get the linearity for free with DSP.
Amir did the listening test on the NuVero 60 and was already happy about the generated soundstage, now imagine what the 8 times larger NuVero 170 would sound like with more thought and material put into them.
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