Theory Audio SB25 Speaker System Review

[Waxx]

Deary me!
Nothing serious, I hope.
If in your shoes, the sound quality of the background music would be the last thing on my mind, you must have nerves of steel!
Unless, you were the high class lawyer.
In that case, I hope you choke on'em.

I was there for work, i had was hired to program his new minidsp and dirac for an other system in the private part of the house. I just had to wait a bit in that waiting room because he was still busy when i arrived and asked him what system that was. The amp was in the server room of that office, and distributing music to all rooms in the office part of the building. His other system are older B&W 800D (MKI) with pass labs xa series amps and a pair of SVS subs with the minidsp flex as xover and room correction. So compared to that, the SB25 system is very cheap...

 

[speakers4me]

Long time lurker first time poster, I lent the speaker to Amir for review so I figured I'd post my opinion on the system. It's my primary home theater system, 5.2 setup using 5 sb25's and two of their ported 12" subs. I would comment that although the distortion measurements don't look exceptional, the typical use case for these would be on wall which involved shelving the bass down which probably helps the bass distortion a bit (their software has a DSP preset for on wall application). Subjectively what attracted me to these speakers was their dynamic range, I'm not sure what measurement captures the sense dynamic range or scale but as other subjective reviews of this product have noted it really has a very dynamic, large scale, room filling presentation, honestly kind of shocking for its size. (For reference my previous systems were klipsch and elac). I demoed it in store with some other products (Kef r meta series is what I had my eyes on) and I'm not sure how to describe it but they just sounded 'bigger', more authoritative, and (their distortion measurements notwithstanding) very crisp and VERY punchy. At the time their retail price was WAY lower than it is now, so I went with it and I'm very happy with them (typically listen around -10db 9ft from screen). Anyway, just thought I'd put my 2 cents in

 

[ocinn]

I wonder if designers like Kali do less correction for some valid acoustic reason or if they are trying to be economical with dsp.

Very interesting question.

I assume the Kali internal dsp, simply isn’t powerful enough to achieve this. Which is IMO totally fine considering their cost and the availability of affordable 3rd party correction (DIRAC). I’d rather take better dispersion/distortion performance with a less linear FR (which I would correct for anyways) over ruler flat factory FR with issues in the aforementioned areas.

I’d be curious to see a sweep of the theory audio amp, to see what exactly the DSP preset is doing.

The <1.9ms latency in the step response measurement suggests no FIR is taking place IMO.

 

[Bugal1998]

I've never seen 24" on center drywall, only 16" on center drywall.
I still wouldn't want it attached to just the drywall, though.

My basement's precast walls have integrated studs at 24" o.c. and the remaining theater walls were framed at 24" o.c. for sound isolation and additional damping of bass resonances; a relatively common practice in high-performance audio projects.

Agreed that attaching to drywall alone wouldn't be my first choice either.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Im pretty sure amir has much more insterestiing soeakers in his garage, lately there is no much reviews of soeakers and even less dloorstanding but weird stuff… like this
This speakers are a really klippel waste of time
Yet we dont even have a very common speaker like the bw 700 800 series, reading amir he have some great speakers in the garage waiting for months
But we get a speaker like this or a cable review

 

[Dougey_Jones]

I'm not interested in this product, but there is definitely a customer for it. I have great respect for Paul Hales. Still have a pair of Revelation III's that (IMO) still sound state of the art today.

 

[Gilbers]

Being in the market for slim on-wall speakers, these are of some interest to me, but the deal-breaker must surely be the crazy cost of the dedicated amplifier unit? (I have been quoted close to £6000 by a UK dealer, just for the amp). Given that these speakers use standard binding posts and have an internal crossover, does anyone know of a good reason these couldn't work just as well with third-party amplification? I'm aware that the ALC-1809 has pre-programmed DSP profiles, but surely those could be replicated with something like a miniDSP Flex HT?

 

[EJ3]

My basement's precast walls have integrated studs at 24" o.c. and the remaining theater walls were framed at 24" o.c. for sound isolation and additional damping of bass resonances; a relatively common practice in high-performance audio projects.

Agreed that attaching to drywall alone wouldn't be my first choice either.

(Please correct me if I am wrong): In your case, the studs are not there to support the precast walls but to allow you to have points of attachment to the precast walls.
Other than that, there is actually no need for a stud system at all.

 

[pseudoid]

Long time lurker first time poster, I lent the speaker to Amir for review so I figured I'd post my opinion on the system.

Thank you for lending them out for this review.
It is good to hear that you are totally happy with your results and have no misgivings.
Congrats!

 

[Bugal1998]

(Please correct me if I am wrong): In your case, the studs are not there to support the precast walls but to allow you to have points of attachment to the precast walls.
Other than that, there is actually no need for a stud system at all.

You are correct. That's also true of the double-walls and false-wall bass-traps in my space; none of them are load bearing. Not an uncommon practice in the use case for upper-tier in-wall and on-wall speakers.

 

[EJ3]

You are correct. That's also true of the double-walls and false-wall bass-traps in my space; none of them are load bearing. Not an uncommon practice in the use case for upper-tier in-wall and on-wall speakers.

Since all the housing that I have owned/do own in this country has been "stick" built housing, that is not something that I see here.
But I have a couple of homes overseas & one of them fits what you are describing. I don't expect to go there for at least 2 more years but will look into that idea, as the place is reinforced concrete, inside and out. There seems to be enough built in closet space but no easy way to attach things to the walls And they will need some tapestries & other sound absorption technics used on them.

 

[amirm]

Being in the market for slim on-wall speakers, these are of some interest to me, but the deal-breaker must surely be the crazy cost of the dedicated amplifier unit? (I have been quoted close to £6000 by a UK dealer, just for the amp). Given that these speakers use standard binding posts and have an internal crossover, does anyone know of a good reason these couldn't work just as well with third-party amplification? I'm aware that the ALC-1809 has pre-programmed DSP profiles, but surely those could be replicated with something like a miniDSP Flex HT?

Since the crossover is in the speaker, you absolutely can use an amplifier of your choice. You have to make accurate measurements and correct for the response as they have.

 

[Speeddeacon]

Thanks for the informative post, as always, Amir. Of note, the pricing info that you quote, which I assume was provided by the loaner perhaps, seems to be possibly erroneous. Theory, being a sister project of Pro Audio Technology, chooses to provide products to custom installers, integrators and a handfull of dealers through regional distributors. They do provide some semblance of "MSRP" at trade shows and occasionally press, but don't readily provide them to the general public. These "dealers" then price the products, install, design, etc. based on their margins and business practices accordingly as a package. So it is sometimes hard to determine exactly what the products cost. There are some "reviews" out there that do list MSRP, but most of those are now several years old. Internet searching reveals no official MSRP for any of Pro Audio Tech or Theory products. If the loaner paid the quoted prices, it could reflect more than simply the product perhaps.

Theory, like many electronic brands, has increased prices over the past several years, particularly with the component supply shortage and production cost price increases seen industry wide. The ALC-1809 was $3,500 and SB25 $895 each when introduced in 2019. I have recently inquired from a couple of US integrators near me who were willing to sell just the Theory products to me and was quoted MSRPs of $1095 for the SB25 and SB25IW and $5000 for the ALC-1809. They are not inexpensive, but a pair of SB25s can be had for MSRP of under $2200 rather the $3200 mentioned, not an insignificant difference value wise. A little negotiation at times, can yield better pricing still in my experience .

Keep up the great work!

 

[speakers4me]

Thanks for the informative post, as always, Amir. Of note, the pricing info that you quote, which I assume was provided by the loaner perhaps, seems to be possibly erroneous. Theory, being a sister project of Pro Audio Technology, chooses to provide products to custom installers, integrators and a handfull of dealers through regional distributors. They do provide some semblance of "MSRP" at trade shows and occasionally press, but don't readily provide them to the general public. These "dealers" then price the products, install, design, etc. based on their margins and business practices accordingly as a package. So it is sometimes hard to determine exactly what the products cost. There are some "reviews" out there that do list MSRP, but most of those are now several years old. Internet searching reveals no official MSRP for any of Pro Audio Tech or Theory products. If the loaner paid the quoted prices, it could reflect more than simply the product perhaps.

Theory, like many electronic brands, has increased prices over the past several years, particularly with the component supply shortage and production cost price increases seen industry wide. The ALC-1809 was $3,500 and SB25 $895 each when introduced in 2019. I have recently inquired from a couple of US integrators near me who were willing to sell just the Theory products to me and was quoted MSRPs of $1095 for the SB25 and SB25IW and $5000 for the ALC-1809. They are not inexpensive, but a pair of SB25s can be had for MSRP of under $2200 rather the $3200 mentioned, not an insignificant difference value wise. A little negotiation at times, can yield better pricing still in my experience .

Keep up the great work!

Yeah I’m the one that donated the speaker, I’ve got a 5.2 setup using five SB25’s, two of their ported 12’ subs, and the ALC-1809 amp, and I paid $10,500 before tax last November, I think retail was about 15% above that. I tried not to sound like too much of a fanboy in my earlier post but honestly I love the system, I wanted a good looking compact on wall system that slams and that’s exactly what it is. One other thing is they occasionally update their speakers’ DSP programs (which the user can download to the ALC 1809) to improve their linearity. A new profile for this speaker was rolled out just after Amir tested it, I can’t imagine it is as flat as their website shows, but the spinorama they had on their site previously (before the update) was a bit choppier and was closer to Amir’s measurements.

 

[amirm]

So it is sometimes hard to determine exactly what the products cost.

Full MSRP is passed on to the customer by the CI channel for such specialty products. And likely there is MAP obligation for the same indicating that the online sale price is what a customer would get in a custom integration bid. But yes, as the owner mentions above, COVID price hikes are definitely in play here.

 

[Speeddeacon]

One other thing is they occasionally update their speakers’ DSP programs (which the user can download to the ALC 1809) to improve their linearity. A new profile for this speaker was rolled out just after Amir tested it, I can’t imagine it is as flat as their website shows, but the spinorama they had on their site previously (before the update) was a bit choppier and was closer to Amir’s measurements.

Which new dsp are you referring to, an SB25 preset or ALC-1809 firmware?

 

[speakers4me]

Which new dsp are you referring to, an SB25 preset or ALC-1809 firmware?

An SB25 preset, it went from version 1.4 to 1.6

 

[speakers4me]

So just one more FYI, I used the internet way back machine and found the manufacturer's spin data for the older version of this speaker's DSP preset (v1.4). I am almost certain this was the current version when Amir tested it. I think the manufactuerer posted the spin data for the new version (v1.6) long before they actually pushed that version out to the ALC-1809 via download.

 

[LPH]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Theory Audio SB25 on-wall speaker with its companion 8-channel ALC-1809 amplifier and DSP. It is on kind loan from a member. Speaker costs US $1,699 each and amplifier, US $5,999. Sorry for stock pictures:
View attachment 383823
View attachment 383824

As you see, this is a very sleek speaker designed to be hung on the wall and comes with nice bracket. Built quality is excellent with the speaker feeling like a rock. Weighs as much too for its size! Unexpectedly for a system speaker, it is driven passively with the crossover being inside the speaker rather than DSP module. On the other hand, this halves the number of amplification channels needed which is a lot in a home theater/surround system:
View attachment 383825

View attachment 383826

Two configuration apps are provided. You can load up different profiles (DSP settings) into the Windows app using either. I opted for the "Flat" (I think version 1.4) profile.

Speaker was measured using Klippel Near-field scanner without taking the grill off. Company seems to have measurements using the same system showing exemplary response:

Let's measurement ourselves to see if we get the same response.

Theory Audio SB25 Speaker System Measurement
Let's start with our anechoic CEA-2034 series of measurements:
View attachment 383827
Bass response matches company measurements up to about 500 Hz. From there, there are small disturbances likely caused by the port. The treble response starting from 1.5 kHz seems slightly lower which could be intentional or difference in how they measured the speaker and tuned the DSP with it. It is not consequential though as you would want to dial your own in-room response anyway.

Despite the wide waveguide around the tweeter we see some directivity error. This is caused by the dual woofer interference with each other. We see this more clearly in our early window response:
View attachment 383828
We will revisit this in our directivity measurements. As noted, thick carpeting and ceiling absorption is advised (or high ceilings). This becomes the only failing in the predicted in-room response:
View attachment 383829
And maybe that slight peaking around 4.2 kHz.

I forgot to measure the port response in our near field driver measurement:
View attachment 383832

We see the same peaking around 4.2 kHz in tweeter response but otherwise, what we have is unventful.

The company's claim to fame is power handling and high SPL so let's see how it did in distortion department:

View attachment 383833
View attachment 383834

Considering how compact this speaker is, this is very good response. Notice how bass distortion never rises to the level of the output. Indeed, during frequency sweeps I was impressed by the clean bass response. Everything has a limit though. Here is 106 dBSPL:
View attachment 383835
Despite how bad this looks, again, bass response was surprisingly clean.

Horizontal directivity is very nice:
View attachment 383836
View attachment 383837

Vertical though, is messy as expected with dual woofers:
View attachment 383838
Dual drivers give you much more power capability but costs you in narrowing the response as the two drivers "beam" together, shrinking usable response to ± 10 degrees. Using it horizontally means narrow coverage unless you sit very far. Be sure to position the speaker in horizontal configuration as to point to listener as to maximize that 20 degrees. Vertically it should be fine but again, position the tweeter toward your ear and don't listen to them standing up!

Same resonances that we saw in distortion measurements show up in our waterfall:
View attachment 383839

Finally here is the step response:
View attachment 383840

I am sorry but I did not get a chance to listen to this speaker, nor measure the amplifier.

Conclusions
While company measurements seem overly optimistic/smoothed, overall performance of SB25 speaker system seems excellent for such a compact and family friendly speaker. The cost is high but I am told prices have increased substantially as of late. I don't have a recommendation for you since I did not get a chance to listen to the speaker but you should have the data to decide whether this system is for you.

As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Hello Amir,

Thank you for measuring our sb25 loudspeaker. We noticed that the prices you've quoted are in error and quite high. The actual US MSRP of the sb25 is $1095.00 each, and the ALC-1809 US MSRP is $4950.00 each.

I can assure you that our published data is not manipulated. I'm happy to share our Klippel database with you confidentially, if you're interested.

Lastly, thank you for bringing objective evaluation to the crazy field of consumer audio where it is much needed.

Paul Hales
Theory

 

[amirm]

Thank you for measuring our sb25 loudspeaker. We noticed that the prices you've quoted are in error and quite high. The actual US MSRP of the sb25 is $1095.00 each, and the ALC-1809 US MSRP is $4950.00 each.

My pleasure. Thank you for correct prices. I edited the review.