Subwoofer Comparison

[Toltek]

I have 2 SVS 3000 micro. Group delay looks pretty high on my measurements. I am not an expert and fumble around, so…

I do find group delay noticeable, and after spending the last year doing measurements and learning what I can, Im kinda disappointed in the SVS. They do have a lot of other benefits though to be fair.

Can you show the plot? Or just provide some actual numbers at 30 or 40 Hz, for example

 

[jasoncd]

Can you show the plot? Or just provide some actual numbers at 30 or 40 Hz, for example

Sure. Please take with a grain of salt, others may chime in with valid feedback on why my measurements are faulty or misleading. I'm learning as I go via searching online...and all my measurements have some kind of room correction applied which may invalidate the whole thing.

Going from highest to lowest. Teal is the two SVS 3000 micro (called SVS from here on out) calibrated with Dirac Live Bass Control. No manual delay set by me. Just got DLBC a few days ago as a beta test.

Blue is two SVS with a miniDSP SHD and Dirac. I set the delay here at 8ms. My reasoning was 6ms for the DSP in the SVS (or so I had read) plus 2ms for distance. I tested all around 8ms and this gave me good frequency response at the crossover. Had no idea what group delay was at this point, it was one of my earlier measurements.

Purple is two SVS with a miniDSP SHD and Dirac. I set the delay here at 18ms. I read a guide here on ASR about subwoofer alignment by comparing step responses, using the REW alignment tool, and other things I had never heard of. Gave it a try, saw 18ms delay and thought no way, that's too long, makes no sense. The FR was great and the drop in group delay was noticeable. It's at this point I'm looking up what group delay is.

Orange is two REL T5X. Running Dirac via PC with no delay. Very early measurements, the REL had other issues and I had no idea what group delay was at this point.

And for fun, black is two SVS and Audiolense. Since I got the multichannel interface to test DLBC, and I had heard of Audiolense and Accourate for a while, thought I'd give one of them a try. It certainly made a difference in group delay, and it is certainly noticeable with the standard caveats of not blind, subjective, etc. These are linear phase filters if I am remembering right, aiming for time domain correction. And the latency with how I have things running is pretty high.

 

[ehabheikal]

As far as i can see i have not seen a sub review and measurement here. Why is that?

 

[Willem]

There have been one or two, but the question is, I think, how to do it properly. Erin has subwoofer tests, however.

 

[ehabheikal]

The device that amirm uses for speaker measurements, can it not do subs?

 

[DevinCortno]

The device that amirm uses for speaker measurements, can it not do subs?

not properly, no. frequency response and directivity don't matter for subs and the measurement loses too much resolution that low down. Subs have to be tested outside with different (but much cheaper) gear. data-bass.com shows what a proper sub test looks like.. totally different than normal speakers. Erin's tests aren't bad. Audioholics sometimes does detailed testing, but the guy picks which tests he runs basically at random so they aren't always comparable.

 

[ehabheikal]

not properly, no. frequency response and directivity don't matter for subs and the measurement loses too much resolution that low down. Subs have to be tested outside with different (but much cheaper) gear. data-bass.com shows what a proper sub test looks like.. totally different than normal speakers. Erin's tests aren't bad. Audioholics sometimes does detailed testing, but the guy picks which tests he runs basically at random so they aren't always comparable.

If runnung tests outside how does he correct for background noise?

 

[DevinCortno]

If runnung tests outside how does he correct for background noise?

Subs are tested at such high volumes, background noise isn't a huge deal... but generally good sub tests are done in big, wide open fields to keep noise to a minimum.

also I should amend my previous post to say FR DOES matter... but only a little bit. A natural FR measurement of a sub isn't very enlightening... peak output capability throughout the frequency range, compression magnitude and detailed distortion measurements (which will indicate mechanical noise from over-exertion, poor cabinetry or driver design) are more important.

 

[ehabheikal]

Subs are tested at such high volumes, background noise isn't a huge deal... but generally good sub tests are done in big, wide open fields to keep noise to a minimum.

also I should amend my previous post to say FR DOES matter... but only a little bit. A natural FR measurement of a sub isn't very enlightening... peak output capability throughout the frequency range, compression magnitude and detailed distortion measurements (which will indicate mechanical noise from over-exertion, poor cabinetry or driver design) are more important.

Thanx for your detailed reply.

 

[chingaling]

I wound up making a purchase today after a lot of thought and discussion. I almost purchased the Rythmik FV18 but really didn’t want a vented sub. I wanted something sealed, clean and high SPL so I went with the two Harbottle 21.1 drivers.

 

[Chrispy]

I wound up making a purchase today after a lot of thought and discussion. I almost purchased the Rythmik FV18 but really didn’t want a vented sub. I wanted something sealed, clean and high SPL so I went with the two Harbottle 21.1 drivers.

Not like either would be a bad way to go Nice dream system you have going there!

 

[DevinCortno]

I wound up making a purchase today after a lot of thought and discussion. I almost purchased the Rythmik FV18 but really didn’t want a vented sub. I wanted something sealed, clean and high SPL so I went with the two Harbottle 21.1 drivers.

Most excellent... I'm in on 15.4s myself

 

[chingaling]

Not like either would be a bad way to go Nice dream system you have going there!

Thanks! They should be end game subs for me. Now to find an amp to drive them.

 

[chingaling]

Most excellent... I'm in on 15.4s myself

Sweet! It was a tossup between the 15.4’s or the 21.1’s for me. I just wanted that little extra thump.
What amp are you using to drive them?

 

[Chrispy]

Maybe check out amps from SpeakerPower or PowerSoft?

 

[chingaling]

Maybe check out amps from SpeakerPower or PowerSoft?

I did check out speaker power I didn’t look at PowerSoft. I was thinking of Crest Audio CA 12 or 18 and the Crest Pro 9200.

 

[DevinCortno]

Sweet! It was a tossup between the 15.4’s or the 21.1’s for me. I just wanted that little extra thump.
What amp are you using to drive them?

I was going to get a Pascal based amp, probably from VTV. They've got one that does 1,500 watts bridged that should be just right. I figure my Funk used a Pascal (xpro I think?).. good enough for them, good enough for me! I wanted outboard amplification this time so I don't have to have a bunch of power plugs in the front wall.

 

[sweetchaos]

Improvements:
-Added Perlisten R212s (data by Audioholics) and Klipsch Reference R-121SW (data by Audioholics)

 

[muslhead]

@sweetchaos I see you have the 12 and 15" version of the dual vertical sub from monoprice. You may want to include the 10" version to complete the trio offereing
Monolith by Monoprice M-210 Dual 10in THX Certified Ultra 1000-Watt Powered Subwoofer

Monolith by Monoprice M-210 Dual 10in THX Certified Ultra 1000-Watt Powered Subwoofer - Monoprice.com

Monolith™ by Monoprice™Dual 10" THX® Certified Ultra SubwooferSets the standard for bass output, low distortion, and affordabilityThe Monolith™ Dual 10" THX® Certif

www.monoprice.com

 

[3125b]

Klipsch Reference R-121SW

No way they want 400€ for that? Talk about a ripoff ...