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Subwoofer Comparison

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sweetchaos

sweetchaos

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@paulgyro
From my spreadsheet:

How do you convert between various CEA-2010-A measurements?
-For every doubling of distance (ex. 1 meter to 2 meter), you subtract 6dB.
-For every halving of distance (ex. 2 meter to 1 meter), you add 6dB.
-To convert Peak SPL to RMS SPL, you subtract 3dB.
-To convert RMS SPL to Peak SPL, you add 3dB.


So in your example, you subtract 6db (for distance) and 3db (for peak to rms)…which adds up to 9db. Which matches the difference of the two tables. :)
 

paulgyro

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@paulgyro
From my spreadsheet:

How do you convert between various CEA-2010-A measurements?
-For every doubling of distance (ex. 1 meter to 2 meter), you subtract 6dB.
-For every halving of distance (ex. 2 meter to 1 meter), you add 6dB.
-To convert Peak SPL to RMS SPL, you subtract 3dB.
-To convert RMS SPL to Peak SPL, you add 3dB.


So in your example, you subtract 6db (for distance) and 3db (for peak to rms)…which adds up to 9db. Which matches the difference of the two tables. :)

Gotcha thanks! I didn't understand as I read that info that you wanted to subtract -6 db then -3db.
 
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sweetchaos

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Ken

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Hello Sweetchaos, I’m in the market for new subwoofers so I’ve been reading all the information you’ve been posting here about subwoofers and how to compare them, and since some of it is a bit over my head I thought I’d just tell you what I have and what my questions are, and hopefully you, or others seeing this, can answer them. I’m a home theater enthusiast and when I moved into my current house I had the media room built per the specifications of a company that I paid to draw up plans and give me recommendations what I should do. The end result is a home theater that is 20 feet deep, 15’ 8” wide and 9 ft. high. I have a projector and screen (140” diagonal) and my audio system consists of the following: Aerial 20t left and right speakers, Aerial CC5 center channel, Aerial cc3 side speakers, Aerial 7 rear speakers, 4 Origin Acoustic ceiling speakers for Atmos and two Aerial SW-12 subs. My processor is a NAD M17v2, and my amps are Lexicon multichannel and ATI AT500 NC for the front 3 channels. I bought a MiniDSP HD to EQ the subs with but haven’t yet learned how to do that. In fact, when I was researching how to do it II came upon the JTR subs and given that I listen to home theater 80% vs music 20% and LOVE low frequency effects ( I have a butt shaker attached below my couch which is one of the best bang for the buck things I ever bought), it seemed that maybe I should change out my current subs, which are primarily known for how well that work seamlessly with my left and right speakers on music. So after looking at the JTR site and digesting all the info you and your fellow contributors have posted, I’m thinking that two Captivator 2400’s would be awesome. So my questions are:
1. Given my system, my room size and my listening preferences, do you agree these would be the best choice for me?
2. Should I pay the extra $100 each and go with the ULF versions?
3. Am I better off with two Captivator 2400’s vs. one Captivator 4000 ULF?
4. Anything else I should consider buying instead without spending more than this will already be?
I very much appreciate your input!!
 
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sweetchaos

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@Ken Looking at the Aerial Acoustics 20T V2 (I'm guessing you have V1, so we can assume similar output), they are rated down to 27hz (+-2db point). That's basically full range. I can see how the JTR subs would be needed for your goals. :eek:

Your room is "medium" sized (2818ft^3), and since most of the JTR subs are ranked "extreme", you will have no problems in loudness/output in your room.
1. Yes, JTR Subs would be perfectly suited for your needs. My spreadsheet already shows how good they are, as you're already aware.
2. In terms of max output, the difference is about +-1db between the 2400 and 2400ULF...which I doubt you'll notice. I wouldn't base my decision just on this.
1633311005768.png
In terms of volume, 2400ULF is 40% bigger in size than 2400, which of course, you'll notice. Seeing how your room is not that big, I would assume a smaller 2400 would be more suited. But then again, you might want bigger subs...for bragging rights, of course. To each his own. ;)
In terms of THD...here's 2400 (graphs from data-bass.com):
1633311376809.png
Here's 2400ULF:
1633311391172.png
I've only kept 105,110,115,120db, so you can compare both.
As you can see, distortion is worse below 20hz for 2400 model when compare to 2400ULF. Which is expected, given it's size. So if you want less distortion, you're going to have to get the 2400ULF.
3. Dual subs are always better than one. So that's an instant yes.
Again, in your room, I doubt you'll have any issues with output. So 4000ULF will likely be overkill for you in terms of output. So let's look at 4000ULF's distortion:
1633311914007.png
At 120db sweep, distortion is worse below 20hz when compared to 2400ULF's, but looks better elsewhere. So if you're not pushing this subwoofer to it's limits, it should have better distortion handling than 2400ULF...which of course, is expected given the 4000ULF size and price tag.
4. Nope, I think that's your endgame subs right there.

My personal opinion, given that you room size is not that large, my pick would be Dual Captivator 2400's.
But, if you're thinking of moving to a larger space in the near future (and assuming you can get away with dual massive subs), then of course I would upgrade to Dual Captivator 2400ULF's for an extra US$200.

Also @richard12511 has JTR subs (Captivator RS2's) and he can offer some insights as well.
 
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Ken

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@Ken Looking at the Aerial Acoustics 20T V2 (I'm guessing you have V1, so we can assume similar output), they are rated down to 27hz (+-2db point). That's basically full range. I can see how the JTR subs would be needed for your goals. :eek:

Your room is "medium" sized (2818ft^3), and since most of the JTR subs are ranked "extreme", you will have no problems in loudness/output in your room.
1. Yes, JTR Subs would be perfectly suited for your needs. My spreadsheet already shows how good they are, as you're already aware.
2. In terms of max output, the difference is about +-1db between the 2400 and 2400ULF...which I doubt you'll notice. I wouldn't base my decision just on this.
In terms of volume, 2400ULF is 40% bigger in size than 2400, which of course, you'll notice. Seeing how your room is not that big, I would assume a smaller 2400 would be more suited. But then again, you might want bigger subs...for bragging rights, of course. To each his own. ;)
In terms of THD...here's 2400 (graphs from data-bass.com):
Here's 2400ULF:
I've only kept 105,110,115,120db, so you can compare both.
As you can see, distortion is worse below 20hz for 2400 model when compare to 2400ULF. Which is expected, given it's size. So if you want less distortion, you're going to have to get the 2400ULF.
3. Dual subs are always better than one. So that's an instant yes.
Again, in your room, I doubt you'll have any issues with output. So 4000ULF will likely be overkill for you in terms of output. So let's look at 4000ULF's distortion:
At 120db sweep, distortion is worse below 20hz when compared to 2400ULF's, but looks better elsewhere. So if you're not pushing this subwoofer to it's limits, it should have better distortion handling than 2400ULF...which of course, is expected given the 4000ULF size and price tag.
4. Nope, I think that's your endgame subs right there.

My personal opinion, given that you room size is not that large, my pick would be Dual Captivator 2400's.
But, if you're thinking of moving to a larger space in the near future (and assuming you can get away with dual massive subs), then of course I would upgrade to Dual Captivator 2400ULF's for an extra US$200.

Also @richard12511 has JTR subs (Captivator RS2's) and he can offer some insights as well.
Thanks, Sweetchaos. This is wonderful information and a great analysis, and just what I was looking for. Much appreciated!!!! Will place my order shortly.
 
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sweetchaos

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Improvements:
- Updated all SVS Prices, here's what changed:
SVSUSD Prior to October 4, 2021USD As of October 4, 2021% Change
3000 Micro800900+12.5%
PB-1000 PRO600800+33.3%
PB-2000 PRO9001100+22.2%
PB-300014001600+14.2%
PB-400019002300+21.0%
PB16-ULTRA25002900+16.0%
PC-2000 PRO9501100+15.7%
PC-400018002200+22.2%
SB-1000 PRO500600+20.0%
SB-2000 PRO800900+12.5%
SB-300010001100+10.0%
SB-400015001800+20.0%
SB16-ULTRA20002300+15.0%
 
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sweetchaos

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kernelpanic

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Improvements:
- Updated all SVS Prices, here's what changed:
SVSUSD Prior to October 4, 2021USD As of October 4, 2021% Change
3000 Micro800900+12.5%
PB-1000 PRO600800+33.3%
PB-2000 PRO9001100+22.2%
PB-300014001600+14.2%
PB-400019002300+21.0%
PB16-ULTRA25002900+16.0%
PC-2000 PRO9501100+15.7%
PC-400018002200+22.2%
SB-1000 PRO500600+20.0%
SB-2000 PRO800900+12.5%
SB-300010001100+10.0%
SB-400015001800+20.0%
SB16-ULTRA20002300+15.0%
Great analysis of the increases! Really unfortunate to see, it seems like the gap closed a bit between SVS and the next level up brands like Arendal and others.
 

Webninja

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Improvements:
- Added Monoprice Monolith 16" THX Ultra CEA-2010-A data from Audioholics.

It's a beast.
Rated 15th best performing sub for 15hz.
Rated 33rd best performing sub for 12.5hz.
I tried every which way to see how I could fit this in my room, but it is always a bit too big in one dimension, unless I can suspend it from the ceiling. I’ll just have to settle for the 13” model, which is no slouch.
 

taisho

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It's horrible to live outside of the US when hunting for bang for the buck subwoofers. Especially sub (pun intended) $600. What ELAC offers is very underwhelming. Great work with the spreadsheet.

Edit: there are subs available at monoprice.eu. Monolith 10" THX Select costs €600 with free shipping to Poland. Not a strictly budget choice with a dual sub setup but at least it brings performance to justify the higher price.
 
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carewser

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It's horrible to live outside of the US when hunting for bang for the buck subwoofers. Especially sub (pun intended) $600. What ELAC offers is very underwhelming. Great work with the spreadsheet.

Edit: there are subs available at monoprice.eu. Monolith 10" THX Select costs €600 with free shipping to Poland. Not a strictly budget choice with a dual sub setup but at least it brings performance to justify the higher price.
I've heard prices down under are pretty high but I just picked up a used Paradigm UltraCube 10 in mint condition today for $240, it retailed back in the day for $1350. I think the Paradigm Sub 2 is the world's greatest subwoofer and this one clearly has lineage to it with it's dual heavy duty passive radiators and downward firing 10" driver:
preview_UltraCube-10..jpg
 

Willem

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In the Netherlands KEF Kube series are about 400, 500 and 600 euros respectively for the 8, 10 and 12 inch versions. They are relatively compact and in my view very good looking.
 

kernelpanic

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And now Arendal is raising prices :(

LAST CHANCE​
In order to keep the unbeatable high-end quality, we are forced to make price corrections.

Due to the extreme market changes, increased production costs and multiple time higher shipping rates, we need to adjust prices by up to 15% for most Arendal Sound products.

New pricing goes live on November 1st!
 

Feyire

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It's horrible to live outside of the US when hunting for bang for the buck subwoofers. Especially sub (pun intended) $600. What ELAC offers is very underwhelming. Great work with the spreadsheet.

Edit: there are subs available at monoprice.eu. Monolith 10" THX Select costs €600 with free shipping to Poland. Not a strictly budget choice with a dual sub setup but at least it brings performance to justify the higher price.
I can recommend the 10" Monolith. I have two of them and they deliver more than enough bass in my particular room. You would be hard pressed to find a better price/performance combination I think.
 
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sweetchaos

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Monoprice just announced that they upgraded their Monolith 10,12,15 with a few enhancements:
1. Cosmetic refresh => Will look like 13" and 16" subwoofers now. Rounded corners (instead of traditional sharp edges).
2. Output enhancements => Added weight to magnet. This resulted in a 0.7 to 1.0 db more output.

Please note that the product ID's are different from the previous versions, so there's no mistake in ordering the previous ones.
You can tell by the name, which says "V2" in the title now:
Here's the new product IDs:

Will add these shortly. :)

UPDATE: Forgot to mention they are US$50 more than previous generation.
 
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