Speaker spikes, pads etc. couple or de-couple your speakers

[digicidal]

I use a very scientific approach to the topic... it's uses a "special" double-blind method but differs based on the design of the speaker/location:

Case 1 - Floorstanders:
In a dark room with my eyes closed if I walk into the speaker and it moves... spikes are recommended - though blu-tack would be acceptable for hard floors. After applying the observed solution, verify if the plates on the first floor are rattling in the cabinets - if so, then use isolation material between the plates.

Case 2 - Bookshelf:
With the lights off and my eyes closed again, can I hear the entertainment center rattle? Add isolation method of choice (not like I'm gonna be spiking my entertainment center woodwork - that thing was 8X the price of the speakers).

I'm certain these methods have some flaws... and they may not work for everyone - but they solved my problems, in my space, with my equipment - so I'm happy. And yes, I have had a little bit to drink today... so what of it?

 

[Krunok]

You keep claiming that but what is your scientfic view on spikes vs soft feet in terms of making the speaker fixed. Soft feet can be made of mouse pads if you include price as a factor of snake oil.

Floor vibrations are so small they cannot possibly affect speaker as enclosure already suffers from much more vibrations coming from the drivers. This is simply non-issue so claiming that this is a problem and that you have to buy some additional product to solve it is a snake oil.

If your speaker is rattling because of enclosure vibrations add anything you find suitable to solve it - no need for expensive products here.

 

[digicidal]

If your speaker is rattling because of enclosure vibrations add anything you find suitable to solve it - no need for expensive products here.

I think the only expensive solution recommended (in some cases) for enclosure vibrations - to the extent that it significantly impacts the sound at least - is buying a decent speaker. I'd definitely consider that before dropping a large chuck of change on some 'tweak' to make a bad design slightly better. Polyfill, mlv, and mdf are not space-age materials - and the speaker designer should have used enough. IMO at least.

 

[Krunok]

I think the only expensive solution recommended (in some cases) for enclosure vibrations - to the extent that it significantly impacts the sound at least - is buying a decent speaker. I'd definitely consider that before dropping a large chuck of change on some 'tweak' to make a bad design slightly better. Polyfill, mlv, and mdf are not space-age materials - and the speaker designer should have used enough. IMO at least.

I fully agree - excessive enclosure vibrations is definitely sign of poor speaker design.

 

[eliash]

I fully agree - excessive enclosure vibrations is definitely sign of poor speaker design.

Probably true, unfortunately the market (us!?) does not seem to act selective and ambitious enough to bring such issues to light...

 

[Hipper]

I actually use some of the Townshend products myself, though not for my speakers.

I was testing various ways of isolating my turntable from vibrations, especially floor-borne, and had all sorts of materials that I measured via a siilar seismometer app to the one in that video. Upon seeing the Townshend videos, and consulting some people who seemed to know what they were talking about, I ordered some of his spring-based pods. They were far and away the most effective isolation devices both measurably on the app and simply feeling the difference of vibrations getting through with/without the pods. Nothing else - sorbothane, various footers etc, came close.

I've been intrigued by the idea of using the podium product under my speakers, just to see what happens. The springs are so obviously good at stopping the transmission of low vibrations it seems to me there would likely be some actual, real-world effect in isolating vibrations from the speaker cabinet to the floor. Though I have no idea if it would render a useful sonic benefit.

One of the isolation products I tried for my turntable set up were the Isoacoustics pucks - same principle as the Gaia and other footers. At one point I tried them under one of my speakers and the sound did seem to change a bit, but to my ears not necessarily for the better, and I ended up preferring my speakers as they normally are, sitting directly on the carpeted floor, no spikes. Due to the fact the pucks raised the speaker, I could not be sure the slight sonic change I heard was directly due to the purported properties of the puck, or due simply to raising the speaker a bit higher, altering the driver/tweeter orientation slightly to my listening position, changing a bit of the floor-bounce characteristics or whatever.

One thing I like about the Townshend podium is that it is deliberately very low profile so as to not raise the speaker off the ground, change tweeter height etc.

I too tried the Townshend pods under gear. I found they did the same as Symposium Rollerblocks and shelves, Finite-elemente Cerabase, and tyre inner tube. I could just hear a slight improvement in high frequency detail. The effect occurred under a CD Transport, amp, power regenerator and speakers, but I couldn't hear any difference under a digital equaliser or DAC.

Nevertheless I went ahead and put Rollerblocks and shelves under all the gear and shelves under the speakers. The result was a small reduction in smeared transients which was quite noticeable with things like piano, rhythm guitars and percussion.

(Rhythm - is there any easy way to remember how to spell this word? I get it wrong everytime!)

 

[Thomas_A]

Floor vibrations are so small they cannot possibly affect speaker as enclosure already suffers from much more vibrations coming from the drivers. This is simply non-issue so claiming that this is a problem and that you have to buy some additional product to solve it is a snake oil.

If your speaker is rattling because of enclosure vibrations add anything you find suitable to solve it - no need for expensive products here.

Again, I am asking for your view about the physics involved using hard vs soft coupling. If you have established the physics behind and confirmed with measurements you would nor buy into the snake-oil what spikes are claimed to do. Anything else is better. A piece of soft carpet for example.

The second part is whether spikes vs soft feet can be detected in a DBT. In terms of audibility it would require that vibrations are tranferred into the floor and that the floor has a sufficient area to radiate sound at enough power. I can neither confirm or exlcude that this may be the case in ”ideal” testing conditions but since I don’t use spikes I don’t bother. I hope that this is clear by now. That I linked to video was not intended as an ad to snake oil products what you need to buy, only to show the physics involved. GAIA reinventef this too.

 

[Hipper]

Even if this is from a manufacturer, the principles apply:

I thought this was pretty informative and is how I understand things to be.

My one criticism of the video is at 5.50 where he is describing the effects of one speaker playing and how it might impact on the other speaker and gear. He could have shown some measurements of this. I wonder if the effect is so tiny that they can't be displayed on his app..

 

[Krunok]

Again, I am asking for your view about the physics involved using hard vs soft coupling. If you have established the physics behind and confirmed with measurements you would nor buy into the snake-oil what spikes are claimed to do. Anything else is better. A piece of soft carpet for example.

The second part is whether spikes vs soft feet can be detected in a DBT. In terms of audibility it would require that vibrations are tranferred into the floor and that the floor has a sufficient area to radiate sound at enough power. I can neither confirm or exlcude that this may be the case in ”ideal” testing conditions but since I don’t use spikes I don’t bother. I hope that this is clear by now. That I linked to video was not intended as an ad to snake oil products what you need to buy, only to show the physics involved. GAIA reinventef this too.

Are you trolling? I already explained for 2 times that floor resonances are too small to affect speaker even if they would be transferred to the enclsoure, unless you live very close to the railway station. As per other direction, if speaker's enclosure is transferring vibrtaions to the floor it is a bad design which cannot be solved with any kind coupling between enclosure and surface. Which part of these 2 statements you cannot understand?

I don't have any intention to discuss physics related thing about the issue which is in fact a non-issue, especially not with a person who thinks it can be explained with Newton laws.

 

[Krunok]

I wonder if the effect is so tiny that they can't be displayed on his app..

Of course it is.

 

[Hipper]

Krunok, do you know of any attempted measurements that can show that seismic vibrations are too small to effect speakers - or gear generally?

(Of course I agree that it is up to proponents to show the effect but I've not seen anything that does that. All I have is my own experience)

Here is one pretty good effort:

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/microphony.174095/

However my view is nicely summarized on page 4 post 76.

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/microphony-ii.174650/

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/microphony-iii.175165/

 

[Wombat]

I would think that external vibrations affecting speakers would be masked by the direct effect to the ears and body. IMPSO.

 

[Thomas_A]

Are you trolling? I already explained for 2 times that floor resonances are too small to affect speaker even if they would be transferred to the enclsoure, unless you live very close to the railway station. As per other direction, if speaker's enclosure is transferring vibrtaions to the floor it is a bad design which cannot be solved with any kind coupling between enclosure and surface. Which part of these 2 statements you cannot understand?

I don't have any intention to discuss physics related thing about the issue which is in fact a non-issue, especially not with a person who thinks it can be explained with Newton laws.

Measurements show that vibrations are transferred when using spikes but not with decoupling feet. It has nothing to do with bad or good design. You can argue what you want but have not shown any measurements that show the opposite. So I am out here.

 

[Wombat]

Measurements show that vibrations are transferred when using spikes but not with decoupling feet. It has nothing to do with bad or good design. You can argue what you want but have not shown any measurements that show the opposite. So I am out here.

Yes. Coupling vs decoupling. Very different things. Coupling is about increasing effective mass(lowering vibration frequency and maybe amplitude to a less noticeable level). The other is about isolation of vibration transfer.

It is basic Applied Mechanics.

 

[Krunok]

Measurements show that vibrations are transferred when using spikes but not with decoupling feet. It has nothing to do with bad or good design. You can argue what you want but have not shown any measurements that show the opposite.

Measurements would show that floor and enclosure are radioactive, but that also is irrelevant to SQ (and to our health, for that matter).

So I am out here.

LOL
I don't have a problem with you standing "out there", wherever that is - stand as long as you like.

 

[Thomas_A]

[

Yes. Coupling vs decoupling. Very different things. Coupling is about increasing effective mass(lowering vibration frequency and maybe amplitude to a less noticeable level). The other is about isolation of vibration transfer.

It is basic Applied Mechanics.

Thanks, at least some grasps the physics involved

 

[Krunok]

Krunok, do you know of any attempted measurements that can show that seismic vibrations are too small to effect speakers - or gear generally?

No, I don't. But he made the statement so burden of proof is on his side, not mine. In other words, he must prove that seismic vibrations are affecting the sound so there is logic in trying to cure that. If he can't prove the SQ is affected than it is the same as floor being radioactive - it can be measureable, but since there's no proof it affects the sound we won't shield enclosures, shall we?

 

[Thomas_A]

I made a fast worst case test audio file tonight, monitor placed on the hifi equipment bench. First two sweeps with hard coupling (three metal pieces), other two sweeps with soft feet under (sonic design).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gganouqd28xy3nb/test.wav?dl=0

 

[JanRSmit]

Measurements show that vibrations are transferred when using spikes but not with decoupling feet. It has nothing to do with bad or good design. You can argue what you want but have not shown any measurements that show the opposite. So I am out here.

Basically when Goldmund speaker engineers deviced the mechanical diode(bar with spike end on the ground/floor) it was for "draining" the residual vibrations of the cabinet into ground. This making the sound cleaner etc. The spike end is the diode so transmit to floor, block from floor. The key aspect however is to get the vibrational energy into this metal bar(pole?).

 

[Thomas_A]

Basically when Goldmund speaker engineers deviced the mechanical diode(bar with spike end on the ground/floor) it was for "draining" the residual vibrations of the cabinet into ground. This making the sound cleaner etc. The spike end is the diode so transmit to floor, block from floor. The key aspect however is to get the vibrational energy into this metal bar(pole?).

Spikes are nothing else than snake oil, IMO.