iLoud Precision 6: subjective impressions

[mohragk]

In lieu of proper measurements and objective reviews of the iLoud Precision range, hereby my subjective impressions on the iLoud Precision 6 variance.

I had the chance to AB test them in the local music store where they had set up a rig where one could switch between most of the Adam Audio speakers (T7V, T8V, A7V, A8H etc), a Neumann KH 120A and (after asking nicely) a set of iLoud Precision 6's.

Coming in, I was biased towards the Neumann's given their track record and objective measurements, but very curious how they compared to the new iLoud P6's since they claim to be as flat in response as those (or even better) and provide a lower bass extension compared to the Neumann's. I was also interested how my current T7V's would stack up.

Wat I noticed immediately is that the Neumann's have a very "dark" sound signature. Really meaty in the low-mids, you could tell right away they are excellent for vocal heavy and rock stuff. They have a pretty alright bass extension but the highs are much more muted compared to the iLoud's (or any of the Adam speakers). The Adam all were much brighter compared to the Neumann KH 120A's. The Adam T series definitely lacked that lower-mid detail. Only the A7V and the A8H provided more meatiness and low-mid detail. I do find the Adam stuff a bit too bright (I have the highs set at -2db on my T7V's), the Neumann's missed a bit of that sparkle and the iLouds were a happy in-between.

Subjectively; the iLouds were overall just nicer to listen to. More pleasing. They have that meatiness and detail in the lower-mids like the Neumann's do, but also provided a bit more brightness and especially a lot more bass. You absolutely don't need a subwoofer with the iLoud Precision 6's, which you would probably want the Neumann's. Only the 8 inchers from Adam could compete with the bass response of the iLoud's.
They also had more depth to them -- while the Neumann's and the Adam sounded like the sound was coming from a projection screen in front of your, the iLoud's had more dimension to that. Sounds decayed away from you instead of just dying out.
The iLoud's also sounded a lot more dynamic, the Neumann's felt a bit compressed. Maybe because of the muted highs that transients aren't perceived as sharp compared to the rest. They just weren't as exciting to listen to as the iLoud's.

In the end I was pretty surprised at how different the Neumann's sounded compared to the iLouds. I expected them to be much closer together, since the Neumann's have a very flat response, and the iLoud's claim to have a very flat response. Maybe the Neumann's had some eq applied to them I was unaware of, or (quite possibly), the iLouds do have more of a v-shape to them. Hard to say without any actual data.

I do picked the iLoud Precision 6's over the Neumann's. I use them in a Hifi/living room setting and am not using them for critical/analytical work. I did apply the X-monitor "comfort" curve to them, just to tone down some of that brightness (go figure). I am very pleased with my choice, although I do wonder how the KH 150's would stack up against the iLoud's? Maybe in a couple of years when my bank account has recovered a little.

 

[Great Sun Jester]

Thanks for the review.

 

[Hemi-Demon]

Since you have the microphone available can you post your in room measurements, with and without room correction?

Also do your speakers hiss, and how well does the speaker standby on/off work?

 

[mohragk]

Since you have the microphone available can you post your in room measurements, with and without room correction?

I don't see the relevance in that, other than to show how bad my room is regarding nodes

Also do your speakers hiss, and how well does the speaker standby on/off work?

I haven't noticed any hiss at all. Standby works fine, they just shut off after a while (you can set that via the software) and activate in a couple of seconds when they receive a signal.
I had one instance where one of the speakers jumped to standby while playing music. But, since then I've updated the firmware and haven't had any errors at all.

 

[Ze Frog]

Be interesting to see measurements for sure. To be honest though, looking at their prices and the equivalent from both Genelec and Neumann they certainly are in a tough place really. Maybe these aren't dead flat though, seems to be a market for other sound profiles like how Adam Audio have a slightly tipped up high end and ATC have a bit more hifi type profile. Without measurements it would be extremely difficult to personally choose these over other offerings, maybe they should send a pair to Amir, could be beneficial to them.

 

[Palladium]

The Precision range is currently offered at steep discounts, so I ordered a pair of P6s at almost the half the price of a pair of KH120IIs + calibration mic.

Similar to the OP I have heard the KH120 II and it didn't impressed me enough for the price unlike my iLoud Micros.

 

[vactor]

with the price cuts and included room correction, these are hard to ignore for my computer setup (or the 5's as i have a small area) ...

 

[Ktacos]

n the end I was pretty surprised at how different the Neumann's sounded compared to the iLouds. I expected them to be much closer together, since the Neumann's have a very flat response, and the iLoud's claim to have a very flat response.

Probably down to dispersion, and maybe a less linear speaker overall but I'd wager most differences will be in dispersion. Ilouds tweeter dome looks like wavecor tw030wa09. It's a larger tweeter than the 3/4" in genelec or 1" in neumann. Ilouds also probably have a bit of dispersion mismatch as the waveguide doesn't quite look wide or deep enough to meet up with the woofer.

 

[TurtlePaul]

Probably down to dispersion, and maybe a less linear speaker overall but I'd wager most differences will be in dispersion.

The dispersion might not be as bad as you fear because iLoud claims a 1.9 khz crossover frequency for precision 6 vs Genelec claiming a 3 khz crossover for the 8040b. The iLouds should be wider dispersion in the midrange but more narrow in the top octave because of that huge low frequency tweeter.

 

[Ktacos]

The dispersion might not be as bad as you fear because iLoud claims a 1.9 khz crossover frequency for precision 6 vs Genelec claiming a 3 khz crossover for the 8040b. The iLouds should be wider dispersion in the midrange but more narrow in the top octave because of that huge low frequency tweeter.

it's not a crossover point thing, it's a physical geometry thing. A waveguide the size of the one on the wavecor can only control the tweeters pattern so low. Generally you need something the size of the lp6 or buchardt waveguides to match up with a ~6" woofer.

 

[TurtlePaul]

it's not a crossover point thing…

The crossover frequency does matter.

At 1.9 khz the 60 degree off-axis performance of a 6” woofer is down about 3 dB from on-axis. At crossover the tweeter on axis matches 60 degrees and it is providing half the energy, so the effect is that the 60 degree off axis at 1.9 khz will be down about 1.5 dB, which is very wide and little directivity error.

At 3 khz, the 60 degree off-axis of a six inch woofer is down about 8 dB vs. the on-axis. This is why a waveguide is very important is crossing a woofer that high.

Here is an example, look at the chart of 0, 30, 60 and see how much more directivity control is needed at 3 khz vs 1.9.

Random 6” woofer

 

[Ktacos]

The crossover frequency does matter.

At 1.9 khz the 60 degree off-axis performance of a 6” woofer is down about 3 dB from on-axis. At crossover the tweeter on axis matches 60 degrees and it is providing half the energy, so the effect is that the 60 degree off axis at 1.9 khz will be down about 1.5 dB, which is very wide and little directivity error.

At 3 khz, the 60 degree off-axis of a six inch woofer is down about 8 dB vs. the on-axis. This is why a waveguide is very important is crossing a woofer that high.

Here is an example, look at the chart of 0, 30, 60 and see how much more directivity control is needed at 3 khz vs 1.9.

Random 6” woofer

I don't think you're really understanding what I'm trying to say. The wavecors waveguide simply doesn't have the geometry to match the dispersion of the woofer on the speaker. It doesn't matter what the crossover point is, you aren't matching these two dispersion wise. The woofer isn't the issue here.

Waveguides | somasonus

www.somasonus.net

Plenty of waveguides there to show you how deep and wide loading affects freq.

 

[TurtlePaul]

I don't think you're really understanding what I'm trying to say. The wavecors waveguide simply doesn't have the geometry to match the dispersion of the woofer on the speaker. It doesn't matter what the crossover point is, you aren't matching these two dispersion wise. The woofer isn't the issue here.

I understand. Waveguides are a solution to the directivity error problem but not the only one. Directivity error is created by of the difference in directivity between i) a high-passed transducer and ii) a low-passed transducer iii) around a crossover frequency. If you crossover a speaker low enough that the low-passed transducer is still has an omnidirectional directivity baloon (or hemi if mounted on a baffle above baffle step frequency) around the crossover then you don’t need to waveguide the high-passed transducer. Speakers have peak directivity error right below the crossover frequency.

A 6” driver on a baffle has almost hemispherical directivity at 1.7-1.8 khz where directivity error would be highest on the Precision 6. The fact that the crossover is 2/3 octave lower than the 8040B matters. iLoud doesn’t need to care about directivity at 3 khz because the woofer is -38 dB by then because of the 8th order crossover.

 

[Ktacos]

The fact that you keep referencing the woofer tells me you are just not getting my point at all. My points have been made and I don't feel like repeating the same thing over and over, so I'm out.

 

[TurtlePaul]

Here is what I am thinking. The Genelec 8030c is the speaker in the charts above. In the top chart is how Genelec designed their speaker. The crossover is at 3 khz (the green bar). The directivity index of both the woofer and the tweeter at 3 khz are around 8 dB. Then the tweeter is approximately constant directivity above that. The woofer directivity is approximately the blue line and the tweeter directivity is approximately the red line.

In the bottom is what I think the design of the Precision 5 will achieve. Because they are crossing it over lower, they don't need the tweeter to hit an 8 dB directivity index and they clearly aren't targeting constant directivity of the tweeter. At ~2 khz crossover frequency the woofer will only have about 5-6 dB directivity. The tweeter will be lower directivity but it will still probably have ~4-5 dB directivity because it is i) on a wide flat baffle ii) it is inset in a small waveguide and iii) it is a 1.5" monster (it will probably beam or break-up in the top octave). So I expect that the directivity error will be 1-2 dB at most and perhaps could be compensated with ~1dB of "BBC dip". You can see that I highlight what I think the directivity of that tweeter will be and it will still be quite good even if it is generating 2-4 dB less directivity than the Genelec wave guide.

It would be interesting if these ever get measured on a Klippel to see how good they actually are.