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Speaker spikes, pads etc. couple or de-couple your speakers

Snarfie

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#1
Speaker spikes. pads etc couple or de-couple your speakers

Last week i bought a Vandersteen Model 1B speakers an they sound great. Love their musicality an staging. When i bought them beneath each corner felt pads where placed (plastic surrounding with felt in it an a nail through). The ones you put under your chair so you wil not damage your wooden parquet.

I was amazed by the sound. Not extremely precise as mine JK optima 3 speakers (the white ones behind the Vandy's ) but really more musical sounding regarding staging basically more fun to listen too. On the other hand the bass is a bit wobbly (a bit more smeard out over the stereo image) so i did try to change that using 3 spikes in a triangle placed on the bottom on a block of marble. So basically I de-couple the speakers from their surrounding. So the voices instruments where more clear also stereo image got better compared to the felt pads. When listening to Sun king of the Beatles using the spikes an marble stone suddenly the lows where now more or less separated/precise so in the left speaker you hear clearly the bass separated an in the right speaker the low drum an high-hat. But now what happened when the voices came up from a musical point of view it didn't blend anymore the bass on the left an the drums on the right did their own thing the voice in the middle same thing basically the sound using the felt blend way more all instruments an voices such that staging became not much better but way more homogeneous the sound was more intimate where the sound with the spikes was more precise but cold more analytic (i know highly subjective). So my (subjective) conclusion it is a trade off what you find important an analytic sound or more musicality probably highly dependent regarding your specific room accoustic. I did choose for the musicality so spikes are off. I was wondering what is the personal experience (find that more important than the theory) of forum members regarding coupling or de-coupling your speakers with pads spikes whatever is.

A site that i found IMO with a good explanation regarding coupling or de-coupeling speakers.
https://ledgernote.com/blog/q-and-a/speaker-spikes/
 
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Snarfie

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#4
Nice speakers!

How about doing room EQ instead? :)
I'm using Mathaudio Room EQ on both speakers. Both speakers are already measuerd an corrected. The bass compared with the spikes is a bit more smeard out over the stereo image which i find not a big problem when it attribute to the musicality..
 
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sergeauckland

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#5
I have never heard any difference with how a 'speaker is mounted. Positioning yes, mounting, whether spikes, a solid stand or just a kitchen stool, no.

My own main 'speakers are on castors so they can be moved about when necessary.

I used to think that spikes made a difference, reducing the 'speaker box's movement in response to the bass, and causing Doppler distortion from the tweeter. Then I did some sums, and worked out that the box's movement was so small as to be really really trivial even with the box able to move unrestricted. That showed me that it was a nonsensical exercise to worry about how a 'speaker is mounted considering that even plonked down on a kitchen stool there's some restriction.

Just get the tweeter height more or less at ear height. How it gets there isn't important.

S.
 

Krunok

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#6
I'm using Mathaudio Room EQ on both speakers. Both speakers are already measuerd an corrected. The bass compared with the spikes is a bit more smeard out over the stereo image which i find not a big problem.
Nice. Can you post measurements after corrections?

Btw, I agree with Serge and Thomas that there should be no influence on sound.
 

Snarfie

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#7
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Nice. Can you post measurements after corrections?

Btw, I agree with Serge and Thomas that there should be no influence on sound.
First picture measurment is from the JK Optima 3 in the back.
Second picture measurment is from The Vandersteen Model 1B in the front.
For a good comparison i did place some day's ago the Optima 3 speakers on the same place where the Vandy's are now.
This is the found measurment.
 

Snarfie

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#9
Those measurements seem to be done before, not after the correction.
The grey line is what mathaudio found the (inefficent) frequency curve. The white horizontal line is the used correction i prefer. This white line i can make it what i want by using the drawing functionality and or the the slider. Recomended is the horzontal line. I'm in talks with mathaudio to put in a fuctionality so for instance a Harman target curve can be used.
 
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Kal Rubinson

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#10

Matias

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#11
I am a big fan of IsoAcoustics products. On my main speakers I use the Gaia II to decouple them from the floor, and on my secondary system I use Aperta 200 under the bookshelf speakers on a desk. Highly recommended.
http://www.isoacoustics.com/products/gaia-series/

What is interesting is that the manufacturer was able to measure their effect in lab, very cool.
http://www.isoacoustics.com/isoacoustics-speaker-isolation-technology/

Notice below how the direct frequency response is unchanged with spikes x Gaia (top graph), but the supporting surface vibrations are reduced a lot (bottom graphs). So you hear more of the speakers' output, and less of its unintended vibrations.

isoacoustics_techonology-explained-fig06-07.jpg
 
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Snarfie

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#12
It is an explanation based on assertions without scientific references or any measurements. Interesting read.
IMO that is that whole point. There are so many opinions around this subject. Atleast one thing is true you can couple or de-couple your speakers than it is up to you if you like it or not.
 

Snarfie

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#13
I am a big fan of IsoAcoustics products. On my main speakers I use the Gaia II to decouple them from the floor, and on my secondary system I use Aperta 200 under the bookshelf speakers on a desk. Highly recommended.
http://www.isoacoustics.com/products/gaia-series/

What is interesting is that the manufacturer was able to measure their effect in lab, very interesting.
http://www.isoacoustics.com/isoacoustics-speaker-isolation-technology/

Notice below how the direct frequency response is unchanged with spikes x Gaia (top graph), but the supporting surface vibrations are reduced a lot (bottom graphs). So you hear more of the speakers' output, and less of its unintended vibrations.

View attachment 31782
For sure i will give it a read thanx.
 

Krunok

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#14
The grey line is what mathaudio found the (inefficent) frequency curve. The white horizontal line is the used correction i prefer. This white line i can make it what i want by using the drawing functionality and or the the slider. Recomended is the horzontal line. I'm in talks with mathaudio to put in a fuctionality so for instance a Harman target curve can be used.
I can see that - white line is expected speakers response with the fitlers applied. Have you measured the actual respons to check how close actually it is to the white line?
 

Kal Rubinson

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#15
IMO that is that whole point. There are so many opinions around this subject. Atleast one thing is true you can couple or de-couple your speakers than it is up to you if you like it or not.
Your two sentences can replace all of the referenced article.
 

Matias

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#16
The Gaias are expensive, though... and I have never seen them for sale used, which tells they are keepers.
 

Snarfie

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#17
I can see that, but white line is expected speakers response with the fitlers applied. Have you measured the actual respons to check how close actually it is to the white line?
I did 9 measurment/filters the grey line is a avarage of this measurments. The white line is the correction that you self can adjust. Have a read on Mathaudio i'm probaly not technical enough to explain in detail regarding their philosophy. https://mathaudio.com/room-eq.htm
 

Krunok

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#19
I did 9 measurment/filters the grey line is a avarage of this measurments. The white line is the correction that you self can adjust. Have a read on Mathaudio i'm probaly not technical enough to explain in detail regarding their philosophy. https://mathaudio.com/room-eq.htm
All is clear - you did 9 measurements and grey line represents the average. After that you set (or software suggests) white line as a desired target response curve - pretty much all room EQ software work that way. Based on white line filters are generated and you copy them so the convolution engine can use them. What you have to do now is repeat measurements when filters are active to see how closely your current response matches the white line with the filters you generated.

Most room EQ software doesn't have that control measurement feature but you can do it with REW.
 

NTK

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#20
I am a big fan of IsoAcoustics products. On my main speakers I use the Gaia II to decouple them from the floor, and on my secondary system I use Aperta 200 under the bookshelf speakers on a desk. Highly recommended.
http://www.isoacoustics.com/products/gaia-series/

What is interesting is that the manufacturer was able to measure their effect in lab, very cool.
http://www.isoacoustics.com/isoacoustics-speaker-isolation-technology/

Notice below how the direct frequency response is unchanged with spikes x Gaia (top graph), but the supporting surface vibrations are reduced a lot (bottom graphs). So you hear more of the speakers' output, and less of its unintended vibrations.

View attachment 31782
Velocities in microns/sec? Velocity is the first derivative of displacement. If the amplitude of the displacement is A, the amplitude of velocity is 2*pi*freq*A. For freq=2 kHz, we are looking at displacement amplitudes of sub-nanometer, about the size of an atom. BTW, the laser can only measure displacement, and have to differentiate the results to get velocity. At the distance shown, there is no way they can measure anything meaningful.

And what does velocity have to do with anything? SPL (sound pressure level) is related to acceleration (F=ma, and when expressed in per unit area, gives pressure), not velocity.
 
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