Speaker spikes, pads etc. couple or de-couple your speakers

[Thomas_A]

You got it wrong again - speaker is the source of vibrations, it's enclosure will vibrate because drivers are moving (vibrating). Floor is not the source of vibrations so it cannot give energy to the speaker, it's vice versa that is happening, but not through the speaker/floor coupling but through the air in the room.





Spikes/pads/wheels are certainly not acting like a spring. Spikes/wheels are hard coupling with extremely low surface so vibrations can't pass through them while pads are dampening vibrations due to mechanic proeprties of the material which doesn't transfer vibrations.



I'll be happy to read his research if you provide a link.



Standing wave on the floor? I guess you meant in the floor? Are you aware thathouse floors typically have resonant frequencies of 1-2Hz or even lower?



Oh c'mon, every serious science research is published on the Internet.



Once again, and for the last time - floor, and other room surfaces like walls and ceiling, are excited only because of sound wave energy sent through the air by the drivers. Loudspeaker enclosure is usually "dead" meaning that it doesn't vibrate in order not to affect the drivers and those tiny vibrations that exist in the enclosure are not transferred through spikes because of extremely low surface of the spike/floor connection. Even if you remove the spikes and put speakers directly sitting on the floor with it's lower base those tiny vibrations in the enclosure would be easilly absorebed by such heavy object like floor and there will be absolutely no effect on the sound.

In case you are considering loopback scenario where floor gets exited because of acoustic waves and try to send those vibrations to the speaker's enclosure via the spikes I ahve to remind you that floor accepted only small part of the acoustic energy while speakers enclosure already have to deal with total ammount of the energy emitted from the drivers - and it did that without any issues.

The whole spikes/pads/wheels thing is simply a myth because the problem have to be solved by making the enclosure acoustically "dead". For that reason no wonder there are no researches with DBT on that subject because scientists are aware that it affects the sound pretty much the same as colour of speakers cables.

Sigh. I hope someone here can provide experimental data. I do not care, this matter has been proven and shown both with theory and measurements long time ago.

 

[Krunok]

Sigh. I hope someone here can provide experimental data. I do not care, this matter has been proven and shown both with theory and measurements long time ago.

And yet you didn't qoute and/or linked any of those proves.

 

[graz_lag]

Carpet over floorboards is very common, and there are no complaints from wives using spikes with that.

This is a topic that needs a lot less theorising and a lot more measuring.

From Ethan Winer: http://ethanwiner.com/speaker_isolation.htm

 

[Krunok]

if they are all very low frequency they probably don't matter, but if they are high frequency they might.

How do you mean "if they are LF"? Panel structures absorb frequencies depending on their weight. As floors are extremely heavy only LF can pass through and even those get attenuated as resonant frequency of the floor is in the range 1-2Hz.

 

[Wombat]

Of course sound can transmit through structures other than air. The vibration just needs to be reconverted back to acoustic wave. An example from wikipedia: tin can telephone

View attachment 31831

Try that with MDF 'cups".

 

[Purité Audio]

Some years ago, I spent some time with an engineer from Spiers & Robertson
https://www.speirsrobertson.co.uk/
They used a three plane accelerometer to measure the vibration in the floor of my listening room , we were actually setting a baseline to evaluate one of their rolling air diaphragm isolation units for my turntable.
We did discuss loudspeaker isolation versus direct coupling, they thought that perhaps isolation might be of benefit if you had downstairs neighbours and resonance was structurally borne into their property.
Their products are designed to be used with nuclear force, and ESMs, accurate balances for the pharma industry.
Keith

 

[Thomas_A]

And yet you didn't qoute and/or linked any of those proves.

Internet was not that hot to publish those kind of experiments 20-30 years ago. I provided one link above to Markkus pages and also sent an email to him. The pictures wete lost and I have mo idea if I he answer since this was 19 years ago.

 

[restorer-john]

a couple of volumes of an encyclopedia on top fixes it.

Nothing quite like a "worldly" subwoofer.

 

[Krunok]

Internet was not that hot to publish those kind of experiments 20-30 years ago. I provided one link above to Markkus pages and also sent an email to him. The pictures wete lost and I have mo idea if I he answer since this was 19 years ago.

Doesn't it bother you that such research hasn't been repeated in last 15 years?

 

[Soniclife]

Nothing quite like a "worldly" subwoofer.

Not that worldly in this case, they are so old they pre-date the first world war, and there is more than a little they are wrong on even for the time, but they are heavy.

 

[Thomas_A]

Doesn't it bother you that such research hasn't been repeated in last 15 years?

No. I have read and studied the subject years ago. Among those articles publshed in two Swedish magazines as well as the measurements made by hobbyists. GAIA finds repeats old findings and manage to sell expensive compliant feet. But there is nothing new in that.

 

[Krunok]

No. I have read and studied the subject years ago. Among those articles publshed in two Swedish magazines as well as the measurements made by hobbyists. GAIA finds repeats old findings and manage to sell expensive compliant feet. But there is nothing new in that.

IMO if that research was of any relevance it would be repeated by audioscientist and at least a few high end manufacturers would be delivering their speakers with such feets, but I don't see that happening. LF drivers are shaking speakers enclosure much more than floor can do and enclosures are designed to handle vibrations caused by drivers without any issue (as regularly measured by Stereophille magazine) so some additional tiny vibrations coming from floor via hard coupling cannot possiby affect the SQ.

 

[Wombat]

People put high performance tyres(tires) on cars that never go beyond commuter use. They feel good about it though.

 

[Krunok]

Btw, that GAIA stuff looks ilke a typical snake oil product to me.

http://www.isoacoustics.com/products/gaia-series/gaia-i/
"The sound stage blossoms to open up a three-dimensional image of natural, spatial sound. "

https://hometheaterreview.com/isoacoustics-gaia-acoustic-isolation-feet-reviewed/
High Points
• The GAIA isolation feet provide significant improvements--including tighter, more impactful bass, improved precision of voice and instrument placement, and the creation of a wider, deeper, more three-dimensional soundstage.
• Speakers disappear from the room with the GAIAs in place, providing an experience that brings the listener closer to the original sound heard in the recording studio.
• The stylish design aesthetic of the smoked chrome footers will complement the look of most any loudspeaker.

Low Points
• I can't think of any low points for the GAIA isolators.


But, just like with any other snake oil product, there is absolutely no proof for all these claims, no measurements, no link to scientific papers, no DBT..

 

[Thomas_A]

The first snake-oil product was the spikes and exotic cones under speakers which do not work as claimed. GAIA is just another version of decoupling, they probably work as intended. But since you can use mousepafs or blutac instead you may judge to call these things according to price rather than function.

 

[Thomas_A]

IMO if that research was of any relevance it would be repeated by audioscientist and at least a few high end manufacturers would be delivering their speakers with such feets, but I don't see that happening. LF drivers are shaking speakers enclosure much more than floor can do and enclosures are designed to handle vibrations caused by drivers without any issue (as regularly measured by Stereophille magazine) so some additional tiny vibrations coming from floor via hard coupling cannot possiby affect the SQ.

Market does not work that way. If people want exotic cones or spikes they will be made.

 

[Hipper]

From what I've read and experienced, isolation to deal with seismic vibrations leads to reduced smeared transients.

My guess is that such changes are tiny if measured with a frequency response.

If both these statements are true then it is no surprise that Ethan Winer's experiments yielded little.

Transient

A musical note consists of '.... the attack, sustain, and decay of a sound. Attack transients consist of changes occurring before the sound reaches its steady-state intensity. Sustain refers to the steady state of a sound at its maximum intensity, and decay is the rate at which it fades to silence.' So the transient is the first thing you hear and is very noticeable on percussion (e.g. bongos), piano, and plucked guitar for example.

Each transient will consist of a number of frequencies (known as harmonics) and in order to get the proper effect they should be heard at pretty much the same time. In other words, when they reach your ears at your listening position they should ideally be heard together in one sharp ‘thud’. If these frequencies arrive spread out over time the transient is said to be ‘smeared‘. You don’t get that ’thud’ but a longer 'thudddd'.

So the question is, how do you measure a change in the smearing of transients? Would it be by phase improvements, Group Delay and things like that?

 

[Julf]

From what I've read and experienced, isolation to deal with seismic vibrations leads to reduced smeared transients.

What would be the mechanism causing that?

So the question is, how do you measure a change in the smearing of transients? Would it be by phase improvements, Group Delay and things like that?

Phase response. Pretty standard measurement.

By the way, what level of phase smearing/displacement do you think is audible?

 

[Krunok]

The first snake-oil product was the spikes and exotic cones under speakers which do not work as claimed. GAIA is just another version of decoupling, they probably work as intended. But since you can use mousepafs or blutac instead you may judge to call these things according to price rather than function.

All this is about creating a problem that doesn't exist so you can sell solution for it. Pure BS..

 

[Thomas_A]

All this is about creating a problem that doesn't exist so you can sell solution for it. Pure BS..

Well there are many levels of BS. Some claims are just not true, some are true, but the do not mean anything in practice. Having -130 dB SNR in a DAC may be true but it does not mean anything i practice if you already have -90 dB. The price aspect of things is a different matter.