SMSL DO100 PRO - HDMI ARC DAC

[Steve96]

Is at ARC or eARC, and isn't hdmi limited to 24/192?

 

[ChenHui]

Hdmi arc seems cool but it is overkill for a stereo signal. Im more than fine with optical, handles stereo super fine and gets rid of any electrical interference.

Now hdmi arc may be useful with notebook, where you can output audio while maintaning all USB inputs avaiable.

It's the first time I've heard that the HDMI port on a laptop can be used to connect a DAC. Have you actually used it before? How does it perform? My laptop has very few USB ports.

 

[Human Bass]

It's the first time I've heard that the HDMI port on a laptop can be used to connect a DAC. Have you actually used it before? How does it perform? My laptop has very few USB ports.

When you connect the notebook to an external monitor with speakers(like a TV), it also shows the TV as an audio device even if you choose to not output the video.

 

[staticV3]

It's the first time I've heard that the HDMI port on a laptop can be used to connect a DAC. Have you actually used it before? How does it perform?

I have used my laptop's HDMI port for audio output before, using this converter:

Amazon Basics 4K HDMI Extractor Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Amazon Basics 4K HDMI extractor. Member kindly purchased and drop shipped it to me. It normally costs $22.89 but was on sale for just $5!!! The case is the standard metal one for these kinds of adapters. Power is provided with a supplied USB-A...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It worked just fine.

However, you cannot do the same with the DO100 Pro. It needs an HDMI ARC port.

 

[ChenHui]

I have used my laptop's HDMI port for audio output before, using this converter:

Amazon Basics 4K HDMI Extractor Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Amazon Basics 4K HDMI extractor. Member kindly purchased and drop shipped it to me. It normally costs $22.89 but was on sale for just $5!!! The case is the standard metal one for these kinds of adapters. Power is provided with a supplied USB-A...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It worked just fine.

However, you cannot do the same with the DO100 Pro. It needs an HDMI ARC port.

I originally thought that DO100PRO could do the same thing. Thanks for your answer

 

[Philou]

Le gros avantage supplémentaire de l’entrée HDMI est que le volume du DAC peut être réglé à l’aide de la télécommande du téléviseur.

Est-ce en ARC ou eARC, et le HDMI n'est-il pas limité à 24/192 ?

HDMI ARC - 24/192

 

[Human Bass]

I have used my laptop's HDMI port for audio output before, using this converter:

Amazon Basics 4K HDMI Extractor Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Amazon Basics 4K HDMI extractor. Member kindly purchased and drop shipped it to me. It normally costs $22.89 but was on sale for just $5!!! The case is the standard metal one for these kinds of adapters. Power is provided with a supplied USB-A...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It worked just fine.

However, you cannot do the same with the DO100 Pro. It needs an HDMI ARC port.

Laaaaame, but maybe...one needs to try

 

[nanook]

No idea what this conversion cable looks like.

To summarize this topic:

Most TRS and basically all XLR outputs are not "servo-symmetric". They just drive their part of the signal no matter what the other output does. This is simpler, cheaper and yields a slightly better performance.

It is possible to use XLR+ (pin 2) and Gnd (pin1) and connect them to a RCA plug BUT XLR- (pin3) must be left open. Do NOT connect it to Gnd; this would short the output of the OpAmp to Gnd via the internal ca. 50 or 100 Ohms. The OpAmp will survive this (they are protected) , but the high output current may cause more distortion on the XLR+ (usually a dual OpAmp is used) and it will burn a couple of 100mW for nothing.

With a servo-symmetric output, you would short the "-" output to Gnd and as a consequence the "+" output will have double the amplitude with respect to Gnd. The TS - RCA Adapters are doing exactly this.
This servo-symmetric output stage is usually only found in professional equipment and only at the TRS outputs.

Since symmetric DAC-chip outputs do have a small (unwanted) common-mode signal-component, distortion will usually be ca. 10 - 20 dB worse and may contain unwanted high-frequency components.
The RCA output subtracts the XLR- from the XLR+ (= sums them) and eliminates the common-mode components to a large extent. Just like the input stage of an active speaker that is connected to the XLR or TRS output of the DAC.

This is why it is advisable to use the RCA outputs when you need to connect to an RCA input.

It is possible to connect the XLR/TRS output to an unbalanced input using a conversion cable. Sound also comes out normally. However, as a result, the performance and characteristics of balanced output will be lost. In some cases, it is worse than unbalanced output. But you won't be able to tell the difference just by listening.
Just because the sound is coming out normally does not mean that the device is working properly. If there is any influence from the surroundings, the problem will be exposed. If you have an unbalanced output, it's better to just use it.
However, if you think there is no problem with the sound quality with that connection, you can continue to use it. It will not damage electronic components. That doesn't mean you should never use it.
Use the conversion cable only when the output device has only balanced outputs and the input device only has unbalanced inputs.
To fully understand this problem, we need a theory of signal transmission in electronic circuits.

 

[zeluxao]

DO100 Pro

Foshan ShuangMuSanLin electronics Co., LTD. founded in 2009 which located in Shenzhen, China. And our branch company VMV Technology(HK) Company Limited registered in HK in 2013. Our company is specialized in the audio DAC, stereo headphone amplifier, power amplifier, and with own R&D...

www.smsl-audio.com

Rotary knob, balanced, largish 7 segment display, decent specs.

It is as if Topping and SMSL are toying with us, one has PEQ, one has HDMI ARC.

VView attachment 359886

They sure do. They now seem to be adding 1 feature at a time, and after they sell a few of those they release a new feature. I'll wait for them to release a unit that has all the inputs( i2s, usb, coax, optical, hdmi arc, aes), peq, balanced and unbalanced out, sub out with bass management (hpf), output selectable and a decent preamp section. Not hoping for it to be cheap, but i just hope to save money instead of buying a new dac every 6 months/ year and make it worth it.

 

[Kiko1974]

I wonder if this HDMI e-ARC input aceptas/plays DSD from a Sony X-800 or Sony X-800 M2. I bet it doesn't.

 

[formdissolve]

I wonder if this HDMI e-ARC input aceptas/plays DSD from a Sony X-800 or Sony X-800 M2. I bet it doesn't.

It doesn't - it should play up to 24 bit 176.4 PCM though.

 

[Kiko1974]

It doesn't - it should play up to 24 bit 176.4 PCM though.

Thanks for your reply.
A friend of mine wants to play SACDs and DSD files from a Sony X-800 and doesn't want to get THE Chinese HDMI-DSD Audio Extractor.
I own an X-800 M2 with THE Chinese Audio Extractor connected vía I2S to an SMSL DO 300EX (that sounds great), but my friend doesn't want another gadget on his set up or more cables.
So this D/A converter won't do the job for him.

 

[formdissolve]

Thanks for your reply.
A friend of mine wants to play SACDs and DSD files from a Sony X-800 and doesn't want to get THE Chinese HDMI-DSD Audio Extractor.
I own an X-800 M2 with THE Chinese Audio Extractor connected vía I2S to an SMSL DO 300EX (that sounds great), but my friend doesn't want another gadget on his set up or more cables.
So this D/A converter won't do the job for him.

The X800 can convert DSD to 24 bit 176.4 pcm - I do that all the time

 

[see_no_evil]

Thanks for your reply.
A friend of mine wants to play SACDs and DSD files from a Sony X-800 and doesn't want to get THE Chinese HDMI-DSD Audio Extractor.
I own an X-800 M2 with THE Chinese Audio Extractor connected vía I2S to an SMSL DO 300EX (that sounds great), but my friend doesn't want another gadget on his set up or more cables.
So this D/A converter won't do the job for him.

Your friend could get Audiopraise VanityPro and extract DSD audio. One possible downside is that it converts DSD to PCM internally but I seriously doubt there's an audible difference.

 

[see_no_evil]

but my friend doesn't want another gadget on his set up or more cables.

sorry posted too early

 

[jed1]

I bought a DO100 Pro to drive 2.1 studio monitors. My set up includes;

1. Wiim Pro Plus (Youtube Music via Chromecast input and Toslink output)
2. DO100 Pro (Toslink input and XLR output)
3. Kali WS6.2 subwoofer (XLR input and XLR output with low cut filter applied)
4. Kali IN8 V2 studio monitors for left and right channel (XLR input)
5. Furman SS-6B-Pro power strip to power everything
6. IsoAcoustic ISO200-Sub and ISO200 as speaker isolation

Here are my reasons to build this system;

• Kali WS6.2 has a built in low cut filter output option, it offloads low frequency duty from Kali IN8 V2's and eliminates low cut filter DSP requirement from either DAC or streamer.
• Kali WS6.2 is small enough for living room and does not vibrate because of opposite facing drivers.
• I went with Kali speakers to match timbre.
• Choose DO100 Pro because it has dual DAC chips - Dual ES9039Q2M have four channels in total while single ES9039Pro has eight channels. Dual Q2M is about half the price of Pro (SMSL SU-9 is about $415). I believe dual ES9039Q2M good value. I considered Topping D50 III but chose DO100 Pro because of ARC. Topping D50 III has an output voltage toggle switch which is more appropritate to drive typical pro audio equipment. DO200 Pro has the toggle switch but I don't know if I would like 12 CS43198 DAC chips can do better than dual ES9039Q2M at twice the price of DO100 Pro.
• In order to avoid ground loop, humming, EMI,
  • WiFi instead of ethernet connection for Wiim Pro Plus
  • Toslink between. Wiim Pro Plus and DO100 Pro
  • All analog signal chains are balanced via XLR cables
  • A single power conditioner / strip to power everything to share a common ground

For installation, I put Kali IN8 V2 upside down on top of ISO200 on monitor stands with rubber feet - isolate vibration and put MF/HF coaxial drivers at listening height. Height of speaker stand is 28 inch but with ISO200, it gains another 3.5 inch so 31 inch is combined height for the monitor speaker. It is bit too high. By inverting the speaker, it lowers the mid and tweeter. I tried both upright and inverted origentations. I prefer the inverted.

For room correction, for now, I do not apply any GEQ / PEQ on Wiim Pro Plus. IKMultimedia's ARC4 studio seems to be a robust and simple solution at a cost. But, I don't feel I need such.

Attaches are some pictures FYI.

 

[nanook]

Does anyone know if the DO100 Pro has the CK-03 clock module, SMSL uses in other DAC like e.g. in the DO300EX and in the D-6s (here without the square shaped metal cover)? On the PCB photos this metal cover is visible, it's however not mentioned in the description of the DO100 Pro. Marketing?

Has anyone seen or measured a jitter spectrum for SPDIF or Toslink input?

 

[Joramun]

Is at ARC or eARC, and isn't hdmi limited to 24/192?

Seems to be ARC only which has less bandwidth and compatibility than eARC.

eARC can handle more advanced audio formats and higher audio quality. It supports up to 32 channels of audio. It also supports 24-bit/192kHz uncompressed 38Mbps data streams. eARC is compatible with Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X.

 

[Noslen]

I bought a DO100 Pro to drive 2.1 studio monitors. My set up includes;

1. Wiim Pro Plus (Youtube Music via Chromecast input and Toslink output)
2. DO100 Pro (Toslink input and XLR output)
3. Kali WS6.2 subwoofer (XLR input and XLR output with low cut filter applied)
4. Kali IN8 V2 studio monitors for left and right channel (XLR input)
5. Furman SS-6B-Pro power strip to power everything
6. IsoAcoustic ISO200-Sub and ISO200 as speaker isolation

Here are my reasons to build this system;

• Kali WS6.2 has a built in low cut filter output option, it offloads low frequency duty from Kali IN8 V2's and eliminates low cut filter DSP requirement from either DAC or streamer.
• Kali WS6.2 is small enough for living room and does not vibrate because of opposite facing drivers.
• I went with Kali speakers to match timbre.
• Choose DO100 Pro because it has dual DAC chips - Dual ES9039Q2M have four channels in total while single ES9039Pro has eight channels. Dual Q2M is about half the price of Pro (SMSL SU-9 is about $415). I believe dual ES9039Q2M good value. I considered Topping D50 III but chose DO100 Pro because of ARC. Topping D50 III has an output voltage toggle switch which is more appropritate to drive typical pro audio equipment. DO200 Pro has the toggle switch but I don't know if I would like 12 CS43198 DAC chips can do better than dual ES9039Q2M at twice the price of DO100 Pro.
• In order to avoid ground loop, humming, EMI,
  • WiFi instead of ethernet connection for Wiim Pro Plus
  • Toslink between. Wiim Pro Plus and DO100 Pro
  • All analog signal chains are balanced via XLR cables
  • A single power conditioner / strip to power everything to share a common ground

For installation, I put Kali IN8 V2 upside down on top of ISO200 on monitor stands with rubber feet - isolate vibration and put MF/HF coaxial drivers at listening height. Height of speaker stand is 28 inch but with ISO200, it gains another 3.5 inch so 31 inch is combined height for the monitor speaker. It is bit too high. By inverting the speaker, it lowers the mid and tweeter. I tried both upright and inverted origentations. I prefer the inverted.

For room correction, for now, I do not apply any GEQ / PEQ on Wiim Pro Plus. IKMultimedia's ARC4 studio seems to be a robust and simple solution at a cost. But, I don't feel I need such.

Attaches are some pictures FYI.

I have a Wiim Pro Plus with a Tidal account and it is connected directly to an amplifier and of course I use the Wiim's internal DAC. My question is whether the SMSL DO100 Pro as a DAC has much better performance than the Wiim and justifies the purchase.

 

[jed1]

I have a Wiim Pro Plus with a Tidal account and it is connected directly to an amplifier and of course I use the Wiim's internal DAC. My question is whether the SMSL DO100 Pro as a DAC has much better performance than the Wiim and justifies the purchase.

Most likely, Wiim Pro Plus internal DAC performs very similar to DO100 Pro. I may not be able to hear the difference regardless of source types / quality. However, I went with DO100 Pro due for balanced connection which Wiim Pro Plus does not provide - even upcoming Wiim Ultra is unlikely to have balanced outputs.

All types of noises are out there in real world (e.g. my home) - RF, EMI and etc. I'd like to minimize such noises with several measures such as fully balanced signal chain (for common mode rejection), common ground, Toslink instead of SPDIF coax (to prevent any electrical noise emanated from traveling to DO100 Pro), no wired Ethernet (to break off ground loop), and power filter.

Unbalanced output of Wiim Pro Plus is a gap I need to fill with a balanced DAC such as DO100 Pro. In addition, it can send unwanted electrical noise to DO100 Pro (similar to Toslink vs SPDIF coax).

Dual DAC chip is not a part of counter noise measure. Originally I considers SMSL D6s and the DO100 Pro came out at very similar price.

Given everything equal, I believe audiabule quality differs based on noise level.

PS. Kali WS6.2 and IN8 V2 have built in ADC / DAC / DSP. So that means at the end of signal chain, I use Kali's internal DACs.