SMSL SU-X with 2x ES9039MSPRO

[antcollinet]

I tried the SMSL D400 Pro (single 9039 Pro) and it sounded like nails across a chalkboard through my Adam A7V speakers. It got no better after a full weekend of use. Maybe that dac just isn't a good match for the A7V and industrial/electronic rock? Glad I gave it a shot, but I'll stick with what I have now.

The D400 pro - like most recent good designs - is an absolutely transparent DAC under all circumstances. If you are hearing the difference you claim then it is either cognitive bias causing it - or what you have now is distorting or rolling off the highs in ways that are not at all good - but you have just got used to.

 

[MadMaxx]

I think you are wrong, the SMSL D400 PRO does not have the ES9039 DAC, it has the single AK4499EX DAC.

I think you're right. It's the D1se2 I'm talking about. My bad. Thanks for the correction.

 

[sweetsounds]

.Assuming SMSL measures similarly to @amirm, the SU-X should be a new best-measuring DAC:

However, this is with +2dB. So it will be also in the 124dB range like all others.

The D90SE III looks almost the same.

We are reaching physical limits of the ESS Sabre Chips, 0.0000631% equal 2.5uV at 4V.

We anyway have surpassed microphones and are way, way below the audible level of 0.5% THD (-46dB).

 

[mocenigo]

.Assuming SMSL measures similarly to @amirm, the SU-X should be a new best-measuring DAC:

However, this is with +2dB. So it will be also in the 124dB range like all others.

The D90SE III looks almost the same.

We are reaching physical limits of the ESS Sabre Chips, 0.0000631% equal 2.5uV at 4V.

We anyway have surpassed microphones and are way, way below the audible level of 0.5% THD (-46dB).

I am interested in studies/papers about the audibility of THD. 0.5% seems suspiciously high.

 

[Reynaldo]

I think you're right. It's the D1se2 I'm talking about

I also had SMSL D1se2 and I found it very bad.
The device came with a lot of bugs, I returned it after a week.
I hope that in this new device SMSL has corrected these problems.

 

[sweetsounds]

I am interested in studies/papers about the audibility of THD. 0.5% seems suspiciously high.

Harmonic distortion is hard to hear, even more in music.
Non-harmonic (noise) can be heard further down to -70dB.

Google is your friend:
AES Paper Temme
KV2 Audibility of THD
Audioholics references

Here in the forum:
ASR THD audible

There are tests on the net. When you know what to listen for, I barely passed the test at -40dB:
Audiocheck THD

 

[mocenigo]

We are reaching physical limits of the ESS Sabre Chips, 0.0000631% equal 2.5uV at 4V.

To put things into perspective, if this DAC drives a Purifi 1ET9040BA directly, this noise will be amplified by 14.4Db, and these 2.5uV will become about 13uV. The amp has a 4.5uV residual noise. What is the total noise? 17.5uV or 13.7uV? (I guess the second one since the noise powers are added, not the voltage, so we should use means squared.) In any case, ludicrous.

We are witnessing extraordinary progress.

 

[antcollinet]

I am interested in studies/papers about the audibility of THD. 0.5% seems suspiciously high.

Try for yourself. If you can beat even 1% (-40dB) you are doing better than most.

Listening Test

www.klippel.de

 

[mocenigo]

Harmonic distortion is hard to hear, even more in music.
Non-harmonic (noise) can be heard further down to -70dB.

Well, in the mid frequencies range 3rd and 5th harmonics together can be heard also at -70db, but this is not inharmonic distortion.

Google is your friend:
AES Paper Temme
KV2 Audibility of THD
Audioholics references

One reads everything and its opposite on the net. But yeah you picked good ones.

Here in the forum:
ASR THD audible

There are tests on the net. When you know what to listen for, I barely passed the test at -40dB:
Audiocheck THD

Interesting!

 

[Hifihedgehog]

Measurements are on the page linked in the OP, or is this a request for a commentary?

No, transparency. It is more of a request for a second set of measurements for transparency. I agree the OP needs to wait and follow the process, but I agree with their implicit point which is that Amir's measurements would see through SMSL's marketing sugar-coating of the measurements. For example, SMSL applies smoothing to their IMD graph to hide the ESS IMD hump.

Case in point is the SU-10. Here is SMSL's IMD graph. Note the smoothing and fewer points on the graph which is purposely done to remove any trace of the ESS IMD hump.

And here is Amir's graph. Since plotting resolution is high, the ESS IMD hump is plainly visible.

 

[pimy]

SMSL SU-X DAC 2x ES9039MSPRO

SMSL unveils a state-of-the-art DAC with its SU-X model. The SU-X adopts not only two ESS Technology ES9039MSPRO DAC chips, but also an XMOS XU316 USB interface, enabling it to decode high-resolution PCM 32bit 768kHz and native DSD sampling streams up to DSD512.

www.audiophonics.fr

 

[Rhamnetin]

Mine came in the other day. I suppose it doesn't live up to its name, save for the edges not being rounded and the display readout being rather small for midfield use and beyond. Although Amir would provide more detailed measurements, I'm not in a rush to send this over since we have a good enough idea of how it performs based on their own measurements + Amir's review of their other ES9039 DACs like the D400ES.

I use it on fixed mode and was trying to see if that overrides the volume setting, but to be safe I just leave it on fixed and at +2 dB. I have no intention of trying out the "tube sound" coloration, it doesn't make sense to me to buy an SMSL or Topping DAC and then use such a feature. I think min phase was the default PCM filter so I switched that to linear fast.

 

[Centuriaromano]

Wow, what a beautiful DAC.

You will have to tell us what sound quality you hear with your DAC in your equipment and I also have an important question since I returned the D400ES due to sound interference problems between the PCM off filters and some Sound Color filters.
Enjoy it

 

[Guilherme_BR]

Mine came in the other day. I suppose it doesn't live up to its name, save for the edges not being rounded and the display readout being rather small for midfield use and beyond. Although Amir would provide more detailed measurements, I'm not in a rush to send this over since we have a good enough idea of how it performs based on their own measurements + Amir's review of their other ES9039 DACs like the D400ES.

I use it on fixed mode and was trying to see if that overrides the volume setting, but to be safe I just leave it on fixed and at +2 dB. I have no intention of trying out the "tube sound" coloration, it doesn't make sense to me to buy an SMSL or Topping DAC and then use such a feature. I think min phase was the default PCM filter so I switched that to linear fast.

Great! I leave mu SU-10 on fixed mode at 0 dB. With my preamp this way sounds better.

 

[Rhamnetin]

I couldn't hear any differences on fixed at +2 dB and 0 dB but I'll play around with it some more this week. The biggest giveaway will be if 0 dB (or a lower setting) causes an audible change in output level. I'll see if there are any interference issues as well with some of those filters.

 

[Guilherme_BR]

I couldn't hear any differences on fixed at +2 dB and 0 dB but I'll play around with it some more this week. The biggest giveaway will be if 0 dB (or a lower setting) causes an audible change in output level. I'll see if there are any interference issues as well with some of those filters.

Great. With my preamp, I hear an edgier tone at +2dB. But I think it depends on the preamp.

 

[Centuriaromano]

No pude escuchar ninguna diferencia en fijo a +2 dB y 0 dB, pero jugaré un poco más con ello esta semana. La mayor revelación será si 0 dB (o un ajuste más bajo) provoca un cambio audible en el nivel de salida. Veré si también hay algún problema de interferencia con algunos de esos filtros.

Thank you so much. You will tell us how this DAC feels as it receives its run-in.

 

[Centuriaromano]

I can ask you:

Rhamnetin​

​

where you bought the DAC because the only place where I have seen it at a good price is in Shenzhenaudio, but I am a little afraid to buy in that store since it imports from China and if I have any problem it is a hassle and money to send the device back to China.

 

[Rhamnetin]

I can ask you both:

Rhamnetin or​

Guilherme_BR​

where you bought the DAC because the only place where I have seen it at a good price is in Shenzhenaudio, but I am a little afraid to buy in that store since it imports from China and if I have any problem it is a hassle and money to send the device back to China.

I did indeed buy it from Shenzhenaudio. Retailer selection seems very limited at the moment.

 

[Guilherme_BR]

I can ask you:

Rhamnetin​

​

where you bought the DAC because the only place where I have seen it at a good price is in Shenzhenaudio, but I am a little afraid to buy in that store since it imports from China and if I have any problem it is a hassle and money to send the device back to China.

I bought SU10 at Shenzhenaudio too. Didn't find it anywhere else at the time.