Salk WoW1 Bookshelf Speaker Review

[AverageJoeAudiophile]

I remember when Salks started... I always thought they gave too much importance to the cabinet finish and exotic woods. An acquired taste for sure (one I didn’t acquire). Looks like they know how to build cabinets and to mount decent drivers on them, but obviously not how to actually design a speaker.

That's is just an utterly ridiculous notion.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

This seems unfair. I have heard a number of Salks. Have you? Most of them will knock your socks off. Want room filling, full range sound? Choose the right speaks. Here in this thread, we see the acrimonious, endless subjective-vs-objective debate playing out.

That quote was, above all, just mean spirited and out of sync with the intended level and type of discourse encouraged on this site. It was also flat out wrong. There is nothing in Jim's quote that is dismissive of measurements. I should know--I've been designing the crossovers for Jim for something like 15 years, and I do the very best I can to make sure the speakers measure well and are in accordance with accepted design principles. Jim insists on it, and in a previous life he was a professional sound engineer. All he's saying in that quote is that it's the audible results that count in the end. I'm not sure what else he could have said.

 

[mac]

Anyone know if Salk QC's every product produced via measurement against a control prior to shipping them out the door?

 

[pjug]

Anyone know if Salk QC's every product produced via measurement against a control prior to shipping them out the door?

I think this is an interesting question, but really I'd also be interested in what is typical for testing in the industry in general. I can't imagine that it is possible to do an extensive series of tests on every speaker.

 

[Rick Sykora]

As I mentioned earlier, found some interesting parallels to the Buchardt S400 measurements (except a lot smaller box), so talked around a bit and decided to model the woofer in the Salk cabinet.

This Seas woofer models spot on in Bassbox Pro. Other than being limited excursion under high power, there is nothing in the sim to indicate where the resonance around 600 Hz originates. Vent velocities are nominal too. This pretty much leaves internal standing waves as the likely root cause. As moving away from the speaker helps, distance clearly plays a role too. Tweaking the cabinet damping material should improve, but the Bassbox sim is limited help and would need to try on real speaker.

There is a pipe resonance around 1200 Hz, so likely explains the resonance found around there. As for output at 50 Hz or so, the model shows it can theoretically do about 86 dB at 5 watts. As Amir indicated, the woofer runs out of steam much beyond that and distortion will occur. Hope this helps while we wait for Salk’s analysis.

 

[beefkabob]

This seems unfair. I have heard a number of Salks. Have you? Most of them will knock your socks off. Want room filling, full range sound? Choose the right speaks. Here in this thread, we see the acrimonious, endless subjective-vs-objective debate playing out.

I don't go around listening to components in random rooms, trying to see what I like and putting myself at the whims of psychoacoustics and the whole circle of confusion. I check the measurements and go from there. Salk is claiming to sell "magic". I didn't put that on his website. The end result is a stereo works well, and I know this because I have measurements.

That quote was, above all, just mean spirited and out of sync with the intended level and type of discourse encouraged on this site. It was also flat out wrong. There is nothing in Jim's quote that is dismissive of measurements. I should know--I've been designing the crossovers for Jim for something like 15 years, and I do the very best I can to make sure the speakers measure well and are in accordance with accepted design principles. Jim insists on it, and in a previous life he was a professional sound engineer. All he's saying in that quote is that it's the audible results that count in the end. I'm not sure what else he could have said.

When I was on the market for speakers, one reason I didn't go with Salk is that I saw how many models he has. 22 floor standing, 11 monitors. 8 centers. 6 bookshelves. 4 subs. 3 streamers. And a partridge in a pear tree. Different shapes, sizes, components, materials, and so on. Dude's got almost as many speakers as Revel, and not nearly the resources. No aneochic chamber. Assuming you do a great job on the crossovers, and I only see reasons to think that you have and do, then there are many, many, many other ways that a speaker design and build can go wrong.

Hence, magic.

 

[GelbeMusik]

I have heard numerous Salks at shows. They have generally sounded quite ood and their reputaion as a business is excellent.

A Freudian slip? -- good or odd ? -- I couldn't resist, sorry.

This seems unfair. I have heard a number of Salks. Have you? ... we see the acrimonious, endless subjective-vs-objective debate playing out.

Do You say something like "measures bad, sounds good"? Or do You expect this speaker to be out of specs, defective?

... out of sync with the intended level and type of discourse encouraged on this site. ... nothing in Jim's quote that is dismissive of measurements. I should know--I've been designing the crossovers for Jim for something like 15 years, ... in a previous life he was a professional sound engineer. ... it's the audible results that count in the end. ..

Usually sound engineers are not interested in loudspeakers. They simply have to work. These people have other problems than your crossover. Why should they be a guarantee for good construction in their new life?

My experience with such references is rather that these people make a big "I know what I'm talking about" blast and then continue in the most flowery hifi gazette language that you might wonder. No idea what Jim (?) thinks about that. Anyway, as a sound engineer he will have been essentially just a user, just like everyone else.


The published measurements on the SALK page are rather poor. A little ironed out frequency response, from 200Hz, well, and nothing else. That speaks for itself. 'In all silence.
Well, we have, as with the ribbon for the BMR Symphonic (?), the question whether this is a hard engineering design, like Revel, Genelec pp., or whether SALK fulfills the most fervent dreams of tinkerers: great special drivers, presentable housings?

Let's get down to the point: did you do the crossover here? Does it fit? Thanks!

I'm not sure what your point is, ... but if the speaker is an easy fix, then I don't see the problem with someone saying they would still buy it.

I don't know what Your point is in missing my point?!

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Usually sound engineers are not interested in loudspeakers.

Let's get down to the point: did you do the crossover here? Does it fit? Thanks!

Well, Jim is a sound engineer and he's very interested in loudspeakers. Yes, I did the crossover and my measurements pretty much track Amir's, except that the dip at 600 Hz has less resolution and looks very much like other dips I have seen on small speakers with little baffle area around the woofer. It now appears the issue involves the port. I'm as interested as anyone in finding out the precise cause.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Agree, that’s what I’ve done for my speakers. They are both full kits designed by SB Accoustics. They are excellent IMO, maybe one day Amir will be able to measure them. I find my ARA Be pair to perform far better than the already excellent Buchardt Audio S400 I had before them....

Yah, I really want to see how those measure up here. They sure are made well and with superb drivers. Congrats on putting those together!

 

[GelbeMusik]

Well, Jim is a sound engineer and he's very interested in loudspeakers. Yes, I did the crossover ... It now appears the issue involves the port. I'm as interested as anyone in finding out the precise cause.

Personality cult?

I'm afraid I have to ask this, but shouldn't such an examination take place before the release? I mean, somebody had a little dream come true for a lot of dollars. It's kind of a bust for now. I think that's a pity.

( I wouldn't be so hasty because of the technical reason. Maybe there's just a lack of polyester wool, so that even more useless bass comes out, if I may venture a guess. )

A little tip for the next: You actually shouldn't specify the "efficiency" in dB per watt. Better tell people where the limitations are in sound pressure level SPL. It doesn't depend that much on the amp.

This little lunch box sized speaker delivers 85dB peak max with just a single handfull of watts. So we have a realizable average level of 70dB with a full spectrum program. We leave 15dB for dynamic parts, which is fair, I think.

This 70dB is only 40dB above the everyday noises in the quietest living rooms. The listener's breathing, traffic, birds, wind and so on. That's very tight, a sound engineer would say, wouldn't he? Ask him ;-)

 

[beefkabob]

That's is just an utterly ridiculous notion.

Well, that was well-argued. Welcome to the forum.

 

[Ericglo]

I don't go around listening to components in random rooms, trying to see what I like and putting myself at the whims of psychoacoustics and the whole circle of confusion. I check the measurements and go from there. Salk is claiming to sell "magic". I didn't put that on his website. The end result is a stereo works well, and I know this because I have measurements.



When I was on the market for speakers, one reason I didn't go with Salk is that I saw how many models he has. 22 floor standing, 11 monitors. 8 centers. 6 bookshelves. 4 subs. 3 streamers. And a partridge in a pear tree. Different shapes, sizes, components, materials, and so on. Dude's got almost as many speakers as Revel, and not nearly the resources. No aneochic chamber. Assuming you do a great job on the crossovers, and I only see reasons to think that you have and do, then there are many, many, many other ways that a speaker design and build can go wrong.

Hence, magic.

If you are only concerned with measurements, then why did you choose JBL 705? According to the measurements, there are a bunch of speakers that measure better including all of the Revels.

I don't understand why you think an anechoic chamber is a requirement to design a speaker.

 

[Thomas savage]

Personality cult?

I'm afraid I have to ask this, but shouldn't such an examination take place before the release? I mean, somebody had a little dream come true for a lot of dollars. It's kind of a bust for now. I think that's a pity.

( I wouldn't be so hasty because of the technical reason. Maybe there's just a lack of polyester wool, so that even more useless bass comes out, if I may venture a guess. )

A little tip for the next: You actually shouldn't specify the "efficiency" in dB per watt. Better tell people where the limitations are in sound pressure level SPL. It doesn't depend that much on the amp.

This little lunch box sized speaker delivers 85dB peak max with just a single handfull of watts. So we have a realizable average level of 70dB with a full spectrum program. We leave 15dB for dynamic parts, which is fair, I think.

This 70dB is only 40dB above the everyday noises in the quietest living rooms. The listener's breathing, traffic, birds, wind and so on. That's very tight, a sound engineer would say, wouldn't he? Ask him ;-)

You do come across as unnecessarily argumentive and quite head strong in many of your postings , I think posting your qualifications for having such a attitude would be helpful.

 

[GelbeMusik]

You do come across as unnecessarily argumentive and quite head strong in many of your postings , I think posting your qualifications for having such a attitude would be helpful.

I once had a business in the field of loudspeaker development, after working with a company, OEM only, for two years. I'm a natural scientist by education. Additionally I studied mathematics, chemistry, AI, social sciences, and was in economics for a year. I hang around with artist and musicians back then. I'm still in frequent, yet private contact to sound designers / engineers. My current job is in AI, security for automatic automobiles.

In this thread I gave some numbers, which raise questions. Answers are also given. By the Fletcher/Munson curve, given the maximum SPL of this speaker the deepest bass notes cannot be perceived. Then it may be beneficial to dampen the enclosure with poly wadding more as to get rid of the ports interference, while in parts giving up that deep bass. This current discussion again went into the direction of dismissing measurements, but weigh the listening experience as a final criterium the most. Of course there are only satisfied customers. At least I see a well known pattern at work.

 

[Lonestar1027]

Jim,

Thanks for your response and mature approach to helping your customers. My thoughts on this speaker which I've happily owned is the same. I understand the laws of physics and the tradeoffs of this design, yet happily enjoyed it for years, YEARS. I'm also super happy that my current speaker doesn't have to make those tradeoffs Current speaker, hand-built by me. Another pic of my speaker build. Jim has always answered my questions even when they were about how to achieve a finish on a special veneer or about Salk Speaker that I purchased used. About that used Salk purchase, $800 purchased used, and 4 years later sold for $700. In audio land, that is a win.

I would love to see a Salk Speaker tailored to this task under review. BeAT perhaps?

Funny you should mention that, I have a set of BeATs on order and Amir has agreed to test them when they arrive. I put the order in about 6 weeks ago so I'm hoping to see them by September. I'll keep everyone posted!

 

[beefkabob]

If you are only concerned with measurements, then why did you choose JBL 705? According to the measurements, there are a bunch of speakers that measure better including all of the Revels.

I don't understand why you think an anechoic chamber is a requirement to design a speaker.

705p? Loud, clear, flat, self-powered, AES digital input, DSP, and Harman curve. Also the port issue is essentially inaudible, and I can't hear above 16khz where there's some drop off. They're going to be my rear speakers. 708p for LCR. Revel M16 and similar would require a DAC, preamp, and amp.

Anechoic and klippel are the best ways currently available. Everything else has issues. https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/subwoofer-measurements

 

[win]

An example would be a situation where one speaker sits in an open area with plenty of room behind the speaker, while the other speaker must fit in a corner with a glass wall right next to it.

sounds a lot like my room. Probably OT for this thread, but I'd love to understand how that consideration would alter the design.

 

[AverageJoeAudiophile]

Well, that was well-argued. Welcome to the forum.

It's significantly better supported than ignorant gibberish of the OP. Thanks.

 

[EchoChamber]

When I was on the market for speakers, one reason I didn't go with Salk is that I saw how many models he has. 22 floor standing, 11 monitors. 8 centers. 6 bookshelves. 4 subs. 3 streamers. And a partridge in a pear tree. Different shapes, sizes, components, materials, and so on. Dude's got almost as many speakers as Revel, and not nearly the resources. No aneochic chamber. Assuming you do a great job on the crossovers, and I only see reasons to think that you have and do, then there are many, many, many other ways that a speaker design and build can go wrong.

Hence, magic.

Talk about an unfocused business model... lol. How could a small company catering to a specialized niche market perfect anything with such a wide offering.

As a comparison, when I bought a pair of S400 last year, Buchardt Audio only had 2 models on the catalog with 3 finishes each. They’ve since expanded their lineup with 2 new powered speakers for a total of 4 products. When I see that, I know they are taking the time to perfect each model. And if you look at their powered speakers there’s a lot of similarities with the passive line. They are building on top of their previous designs, perfecting and improving it. And creating their own unique R&D culture focused on the goal of providing quality attainable sound reproduction for home environments. And that piques my interest. Oh, and they also publish a good amount of measurements.

 

[Thomas savage]

I once had a business in the field of loudspeaker development, after working with a company, OEM only, for two years. I'm a natural scientist by education. Additionally I studied mathematics, chemistry, AI, social sciences, and was in economics for a year. I hang around with artist and musicians back then. I'm still in frequent, yet private contact to sound designers / engineers. My current job is in AI, security for automatic automobiles.

In this thread I gave some numbers, which raise questions. Answers are also given. By the Fletcher/Munson curve, given the maximum SPL of this speaker the deepest bass notes cannot be perceived. Then it may be beneficial to dampen the enclosure with poly wadding more as to get rid of the ports interference, while in parts giving up that deep bass. This current discussion again went into the direction of dismissing measurements, but weigh the listening experience as a final criterium the most. Of course there are only satisfied customers. At least I see a well known pattern at work.

That's helpful, thanks .