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Room correction options that wont ruin the sound of tube amp?

I have a question, IF the amps sound great, why are you adding room correction or DSP.. You didn't say it sounded bad, or noisy, or even OK, you
said it sounded GREAT.

You lost me, it's not hard to do, but you did, you lost me. Leave it alone and enjoy the GREAT sound. If you really want to spend money on a much
better solution, try speaker placement, where you set or mechanical treatment first. Add DSP AFTER. You probably won't need to use DSP on a stereo anyway.
I sure don't. Oddball room dimensions, and limited placement is the only reason I would be using anything on a stereo.

HT is a different thing. BUT I'm not into sound effects either. I still prefer a stereo system. 2 mains, 4-6 subs, and a pair of bass columns, that image
a center bass phantom along with the center phantom from the mains. I'm just a caveman in my khaki slacks. :)

Regards
I am like you. I want a stereo not a ht. I probably will only go 2 subs if I need.
 
What you need and want matters the most, irrespective of other opinions. Consider others but...your ears, your money, and your system!

A good AD/DA system will not alter the sound of a tube amp. Consider RME ADI-2 Pro FS, it can AD/DA @DSD rates and has variable loudness (like yamaha), Equalizer, and a 7 band PEQ. RME gives multitude of options to both AD and DA stages. I have used miniDSP SHD with Dirac and I currently have an Integra DRX-8.4 with Full range Dirac and DLBC. I switched to RME for stereo and I am very happy.

1. Invest a bit into good room treatments (hire someone locally to make them with Rockwool)

2. A sophisticated AD/DA (like RME) and a PEQ.
(With REW, above two methods are enough to fix many issues in room you can also go the convolution route but imho not needed and much less needed is Dirac)

I have used Dirac and DLBC and I'm having buyers remorse and I think that they're not worth it. If you must have subs to fix room issues then get a 2x Rythmik 12inch servo subs and align them manually.

Plenty you can do but one thing after another.. it's a process, unless you're a multi millionaire who can afford to build dedicated space and hire pros...it is not gonna happen in a day.
I have my eye on a streamer/dac with room correction. The flagship EverSolo DMP-A10. The reason I am reluctant to pull the trigger on it, is because iy uses ESS DAC chips. I prefer AKM chips. EverSolo's last flagship DMP-A8 has AKM chips but, it does not have room correction only EQ. The Streamer/dac maker HiFi Rose also used to use AKM ships in their DACs but stopped. The reason I believe some DAC makers are dropping AKM chips is believe is there was a fire that devastated AKMs manufacturing facility. Instead of rebuilding their plant, AKM instead outsourced the manufacturing of their chips to third parties, and the pecs of the chips are not as good. The chip that was made at their plant was the ak4499EQ. The outsourced chip that replaced it is the ak4499EX. I wont bore you with technical data but the EQ is better. That being said I would still take a dac made with an AK4499EX over an ESS. The first company that makes a Steamer/DAC with room correction and an AKM chipset, might just have a new customer.
 
A hybrid tube amp is a solid state amp with a tube preamp, so it isn't a tube amp at all.

This thread is a whole bunch of subjective BS counter to the premise of this forum anyway with seemingly little attempt from members to resolve it.
 
I have my eye on a streamer/dac with room correction. The flagship EverSolo DMP-A10. The reason I am reluctant to pull the trigger on it, is because iy uses ESS DAC chips. I prefer AKM chips. EverSolo's last flagship DMP-A8 has AKM chips but, it does not have room correction only EQ. The Streamer/dac maker HiFi Rose also used to use AKM ships in their DACs but stopped. The reason I believe some DAC makers are dropping AKM chips is believe is there was a fire that devastated AKMs manufacturing facility. Instead of rebuilding their plant, AKM instead outsourced the manufacturing of their chips to third parties, and the pecs of the chips are not as good. The chip that was made at their plant was the ak4499EQ. The outsourced chip that replaced it is the ak4499EX. I wont bore you with technical data but the EQ is better. That being said I would still take a dac made with an AK4499EX over an ESS. The first company that makes a Steamer/DAC with room correction and an AKM chipset, might just have a new customer.
Now you are losing it...
 
A hybrid tube amp is a solid state amp with a tube preamp, so it isn't a tube amp at all.

This thread is a whole bunch of subjective BS counter to the premise of this forum anyway with seemingly little attempt from members to resolve it.
Partly the reason I don't comment as much as I used to. Subjective rubbish abounds.
 
I have my eye on a streamer/dac with room correction. The flagship EverSolo DMP-A10. The reason I am reluctant to pull the trigger on it, is because iy uses ESS DAC chips. I prefer AKM chips. EverSolo's last flagship DMP-A8 has AKM chips but, it does not have room correction only EQ. The Streamer/dac maker HiFi Rose also used to use AKM ships in their DACs but stopped. The reason I believe some DAC makers are dropping AKM chips is believe is there was a fire that devastated AKMs manufacturing facility. Instead of rebuilding their plant, AKM instead outsourced the manufacturing of their chips to third parties, and the pecs of the chips are not as good. The chip that was made at their plant was the ak4499EQ. The outsourced chip that replaced it is the ak4499EX. I wont bore you with technical data but the EQ is better. That being said I would still take a dac made with an AK4499EX over an ESS. The first company that makes a Steamer/DAC with room correction and an AKM chipset, might just have a new customer.
RME that I have uses AKM chip and has PEQ for correction. They switched to ESS because of fire at AKM factory and one of the RME's engineers clarified that there will not be any audible difference between these two chips. But if you are set on AKM then you have some searching to do..
 
OK. So a hybrid amp with a couple of tubes in the preamp section doing... something. There's an inbuilt DAC that will probably be perfectly adequate. There's a power amp in section for when you come to your senses. I'm not surprised you chose that over the other two amps auditioned, which both have serious measurable issues. You are choosing a cleaner amp than the others you auditioned... and based purely on what "the science" says, you should go a lot further down that road... seriously, consider the Lyngdorf!

I can find no measurements for this Advance Paris product. We have no idea what this amp is really doing. There's no damping factor or equivalent spec to tell if it will be affected by speaker impedance.
There are no independent measurements that I can find. Still, it should drive your choice of speakers. There's a USB input if you want to use a computer or a streamer without using its DAC. There are power amp inputs, so you could try a DAC/preamp at some point in the future when you realise the tubes aren't really such a good idea.
So nothing too bad necessarily, but an unknown quantity.

https://www.advanceparis.com/en/product/a12-classic/ for anyone who wants to look

The speakers appear to be a good choice, good measurements according to threads here and the amp will drive them. Simply, with good speakers and a reasonably damped room, you are 90% of the way there, regardless of a couple of tubes in the pre or some/no room correction. So make sure that you at least have a thick rug on the floor, and that the speakers are optimally placed (so you may need a little more than that two feet away from the wall, rather than less). You get more bass closer to the wall, but unless the rear port is well controlled and the speaker is designed to be close to the wall, you will end up with a less detailed sound into the bargain, and maybe a few other surprises.
Follow the advice in the user guide.

The streamer or PC are as much about ergonomics as anything else. You mentioned a computer: I might suggest a reasonable fanless PC with Roon, and measure with REW to get a useable EQ to add. Plenty can advise you here on that. Roon isn't cheap, but still cheaper than a DMP10, so you have budget for it. If you want automatic room correction, there are PC apps you can get for that.

Just use the built in DAC for now.

The tubes are probably adding some THD rather than messing with the FR a lot, so any "sound" will come through with the EQ/DSP/room correction, but honestly and repeating the point, I think you would still prefer a more accurate amp in practice. Still, I think you'll be good enough in practice based on what you've said, though you could be better.

And please, forget the DAC chip BS, that's about engineering, not the chip chosen.
 
Wow thanks for the advice! I will look into it. How do you control your streamer on your PC remotely, if you don't mind me asking?
No worries. I use an app called HiFi Cast on my phone, tablet or Android TV box via WiFi.
 
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A hybrid tube amp is a solid state amp with a tube preamp, so it isn't a tube amp at all.

This thread is a whole bunch of subjective BS counter to the premise of this forum anyway with seemingly little attempt from members to resolve it.
Partly the reason I don't comment as much as I used to. Subjective rubbish abounds.
Talk about anticlimax. :oops:

TS amplifier Advance Paris A12 tube pre amp section probably does not create any audible "warm", "soft" tube sound. That if we assume that it is a well-designed amplifier. Advance Paris A12 has power so it is enough and is left to power up a pair of speakers that have this sensitivity:

Q Acoustics specifies the Concept 500's sensitivity as 90dB/W/m; my estimate was close to that, at 89.2dB(B)/2.83V/m, which is usefully higher than average.

Plus:

.....the Concept 500 will not be a particularly difficult load for an amplifier to drive.


Technical data plus a picture of what the Advance Paris A12 amplifier looks like under the hood:
Screenshot_2024-11-19_084519.jpgScreenshot_2024-11-19_084437.jpg798a2d45-9df4-4b82-b503-a7c46a5128f1.jpg

I stand by what I wrote in #8. If you want to test or simulate that second-order distortion, which is claimed (that claim in itself is a topic in itself for another thread) to be part of the softening aspect that creates the "magical" tube sound, plug in that PKHarmonic VST Plugin - Audiophile Harmonics Generator. It is also possible to add higher order even harmonics with it. Free but if I had tried it I would have donated to the to the designer of the program.

What is PKHarmonic?

PKHarmonic is a VST plugin for Windows, designed to add second and all the way up to the 8th harmonic by simulating a device non-linearity. A simple slider control for each harmonic lets you fine tune the level from -200dB to +10dB in real time, as you listen. This makes it possible to configure your playback software to generate similar levels of distortions to simulate a tube preamp or an amp, or another device with some level of non-linearity.

Features

  • Set any combinations of 2nd through 8th harmonics, while the music is playing
  • Save configurations with specific harmonic combinations that you like and recall them by name
  • Use Bypass button to switch between playback with and without PKHarmonic in the audio path to A/B compare the differences
  • Works with 64- and 32-bit VST host applications
  • Internal processing is using 64-bit floating point numbers for greater precision
Technically, I don't know under what conditions you can get that program started. In that case, those with knowledge of computer software can help with that. :)
 
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Talk about anticlimax. :oops:

TS amplifier Advance Paris A12 tube pre amp section probably does not create any audible "warm", "soft" tube sound. That if we assume that it is a well-designed amplifier. Advance Paris A12 has power so it is enough and is left to power up a pair of speakers that have this sensitivity:

Q Acoustics specifies the Concept 500's sensitivity as 90dB/W/m; my estimate was close to that, at 89.2dB(B)/2.83V/m, which is usefully higher than average.

Plus:

.....the Concept 500 will not be a particularly difficult load for an amplifier to drive.


Technical data plus a picture of what the Advance Paris A12 amplifier looks like under the hood:
View attachment 407940View attachment 407941View attachment 407942

I stand by what I wrote in #8. If you want to test or simulate that second-order distortion, which is claimed (that claim in itself is a topic in itself for another thread) to be part of the softening aspect that creates the "magical" tube sound, plug in that PKHarmonic VST Plugin - Audiophile Harmonics Generator. It is also possible to add higher order even harmonics with it. Free but if I had tried it I would have donated to the to the designer of the program.

What is PKHarmonic?

PKHarmonic is a VST plugin for Windows, designed to add second and all the way up to the 8th harmonic by simulating a device non-linearity. A simple slider control for each harmonic lets you fine tune the level from -200dB to +10dB in real time, as you listen. This makes it possible to configure your playback software to generate similar levels of distortions to simulate a tube preamp or an amp, or another device with some level of non-linearity.

Features

  • Set any combinations of 2nd through 8th harmonics, while the music is playing
  • Save configurations with specific harmonic combinations that you like and recall them by name
  • Use Bypass button to switch between playback with and without PKHarmonic in the audio path to A/B compare the differences
  • Works with 64- and 32-bit VST host applications
  • Internal processing is using 64-bit floating point numbers for greater precision
Technically, I don't know under what conditions you can get that program started. In that case, those with knowledge of computer software can help with that. :)
Our OP already preferred the sound of the Advance Paris amp over an actual all tube amp. He does not need to add any harmonics to make his choice more like an amp he did not like!

I stand by my counter proposal. I believe that he would prefer a more accurate amp, without any glassware, over this one as well. That's based on what we already know here to be generally true.
 
Our OP already preferred the sound of the Advance Paris amp over an actual all tube amp. He does not need to add any harmonics to make his choice more like an amp he did not like!

I stand by my counter proposal. I believe that he would prefer a more accurate amp, without any glassware, over this one as well. That's based on what we already know here to be generally true.
I checked now and find that I apparently imagined that TS said he likes his amp because of the tube sound but the fact is he only said he likes his
integrated tube amplifier. That's a big difference. The only thing I see he said is a question: Perhaps tube amps add some distortion.
So we can ignore tubes or the "tube sound". Sorry that I didn't read TS's post more carefully. My own interpretations and preconceived notions weighed into it all. :oops:

My suggestion about PKHarmonic VST Plugin can thus now be seen as a general tip for those who want to test. :)

I agree with what you mention regarding a thick rug, speaker placement and suitable damping in the listening room. Maybe also consider a really comfortable armchair, if TS does not already have that?
 
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I checked now and find that I apparently imagined that TS said he likes his amp because of the tube sound but the fact is he only said he likes his
integrated tube amplifier. That's a big difference. The only thing I see he said is a question: Perhaps tube amps add some distortion.
So we can ignore tubes or the "tube sound". Sorry that I didn't read TS's post more carefully. My own interpretations and preconceived notions weighed into it all. :oops:

Thus, my suggestion about PKHarmonic VST Plugin can thus now be seen as a general tip for those who want to test. :)

What you mention about a thick rug, speaker placement, suitable damping in the listening room. Absolutely. Maybe also consider a really comfortable armchair, if TS does not already have that?
I went further, and to reiterate, he liked what is probably (we can't tell, of course) the best measuring and more accurate of three amplifiers. Both the Hegel and Unico amps have fared "poorly", ie are not transparent, and the tubes in the hybrid design are probably doing less damage to the sound.

For all the commentary,@marked sound shows signs of being an in-the-majority listener who would actually prefer more "accurate" sound if he would only consider it. He doesn't actually like real tube distortion as given by the Unico.

Looking back at the original post, one more comment - the gear plays the music. Love the music. Forget "loving" components, most of all amps.
 
Looking back at the original post, one more comment - the gear plays the music. Love the music. Forget "loving" components, most of all amps.
Or as a hardcore gadget obsessed audiophile would say: Now that I've got all the top notch HiFi gear I want, what the hell am I supposed to do?!;):)

Edit:
Having said that. A few years ago I spoke to a very knowledgeable speaker DIY person in connection with hearing his DIY speaker at a fair. He said he only listens to music once a month or so. Listen and enjoy music then that is. As far as I know, he now builds loudspeakers on behalf of others. He is most likely satisfied and happy with that hobby. If I were to guess, he has neither time nor interest in listening to music these days. Nothing wrong with that. There is no requirement or end in itself for people to listen to music.
 
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I went further, and to reiterate, he liked what is probably (we can't tell, of course) the best measuring and more accurate of three amplifiers. Both the Hegel and Unico amps have fared "poorly", ie are not transparent, and the tubes in the hybrid design are probably doing less damage to the sound.

For all the commentary,@marked sound shows signs of being an in-the-majority listener who would actually prefer more "accurate" sound if he would only consider it. He doesn't actually like real tube distortion as given by the Unico.

Looking back at the original post, one more comment - the gear plays the music. Love the music. Forget "loving" components, most of all amps.
When you say I would prefer more "accurate sound", are you suggesting in the way of room correction, or are you meaning another way to achieve this? If you do mean room correction as my original post asks, can I just add an external room correction device to the Advance Paris A12, or do you suggest scraping the A12 all together gor a device already equiped with room correction? If you are in favor of adding room correction the A12, can I do so with out degrading the sound characteristics in the A12 that I seem to like so much?

Thanks
 
When you say I would prefer more "accurate sound", are you suggesting in the way of room correction, or are you meaning another way to achieve this? If you do mean room correction as my original post asks, can I just add an external room correction device to the Advance Paris A12, or do you suggest scraping the A12 all together gor a device already equiped with room correction? If you are in favor of adding room correction the A12, can I do so with out degrading the sound characteristics in the A12 that I seem to like so much?

Thanks
I simply suggest you audition a good sounding solid state amp against the A12. From what I remember, the Hegel isn't that.

Preferring the A12 to the alternatives simply tells me you have already preferred a less distorting amplifier, and given your option 1 you should try that road. You're hanging on to an idea about the A12 that just may not be true.

If you prefer the A12 it is either because you are "hearing" a non-sonic aspect, or because it does have a sound you prefer. If it has a different sound it comes from certain things, either frequency response, harmonic distortion, or a mixture of the two. In your room, you will be able to see the characteristics through measurements, and the room correction does that. Harmonic distortion will probably not be affected: frequency response will. You don't need to use full range correction, and anything in the bass region will be different in each room anyway. The room and the speaker placement will dominate the amplifier.

As I pointed out, you also have the options of not using room correction - it's allowed, you know! - and you can use room treatments instead if you need improvements. At the end of the day, it's all entirely up to you. It's what you prefer that is important in the end. The "science" is the starting point. We can guess what you might like in blind testing and we can suggest it transfers to sighted listening for the most part, but by no means entirely.

So, what I'm suggesting isn't "you need this", but "start here and try this". Try a more neutral amp, try different approaches to room correction, but don't feel obliged to use any of it unless it works for you.

Apart from the rug and whatever else will dampen the room responses a bit. That, and good speaker placement in the room, they are the important things. Correction and EQ will always work better with the basics already done well.

If in doubt about this, stop asking questions here and read Toole's book. A few dollars to buy that is worth thousands in equipment budget.
 
OK. So a hybrid amp with a couple of tubes in the preamp section doing... something. There's an inbuilt DAC that will probably be perfectly adequate. There's a power amp in section for when you come to your senses. I'm not surprised you chose that over the other two amps auditioned, which both have serious measurable issues. You are choosing a cleaner amp than the others you auditioned... and based purely on what "the science" says, you should go a lot further down that road... seriously, consider the Lyngdorf!

I can find no measurements for this Advance Paris product. We have no idea what this amp is really doing. There's no damping factor or equivalent spec to tell if it will be affected by speaker impedance.
There are no independent measurements that I can find. Still, it should drive your choice of speakers. There's a USB input if you want to use a computer or a streamer without using its DAC. There are power amp inputs, so you could try a DAC/preamp at some point in the future when you realise the tubes aren't really such a good idea.
So nothing too bad necessarily, but an unknown quantity.

https://www.advanceparis.com/en/product/a12-classic/ for anyone who wants to look

The speakers appear to be a good choice, good measurements according to threads here and the amp will drive them. Simply, with good speakers and a reasonably damped room, you are 90% of the way there, regardless of a couple of tubes in the pre or some/no room correction. So make sure that you at least have a thick rug on the floor, and that the speakers are optimally placed (so you may need a little more than that two feet away from the wall, rather than less). You get more bass closer to the wall, but unless the rear port is well controlled and the speaker is designed to be close to the wall, you will end up with a less detailed sound into the bargain, and maybe a few other surprises.
Follow the advice in the user guide.

The streamer or PC are as much about ergonomics as anything else. You mentioned a computer: I might suggest a reasonable fanless PC with Roon, and measure with REW to get a useable EQ to add. Plenty can advise you here on that. Roon isn't cheap, but still cheaper than a DMP10, so you have budget for it. If you want automatic room correction, there are PC apps you can get for that.

Just use the built in DAC for now.

The tubes are probably adding some THD rather than messing with the FR a lot, so any "sound" will come through with the EQ/DSP/room correction, but honestly and repeating the point, I think you would still prefer a more accurate amp in practice. Still, I think you'll be good enough in practice based on what you've said, though you could be better.

And please, forget the DAC chip BS, that's about engineering, not the chip chosen.
Thanks for the detailed reply.

I didn't know that the Hegel wasn't really that clean. You would expect for $12,000 the product would be such. As for the Unico, if those tubes would cause a high amount of distortion as mentioned, that makes more sense. The Hegel though throws me for a loop.

I do not know what was causing me to prefer the sound of the Advance Paris. As people have been mentioning, the tubes in this hybrid amplifier are probably not causing as much distortion as tubes that play a bigger role in an amplifier would. However, I loved the way it sounded. I sounded better than any amp I owned. I owned a rotel pre amp and separates, I also owned a Marantz SR-7013 and sold it. (Not into HT anymore only stereo). I also owned various Yamaha amps. And as I mentioned earlier sounded considerably better than a $12,000 Hegel and a $7000 Unico.

The Advance Paris A12 sounded good on multiple speaker systems. Really shined on the Concept 500s but, since you suggested the concept 500s got good measurements, so that could explain why. Could it be that the Advance Paris, despite the tubes (which people here say tubes are the work of the devil), is just a really well built amp? I don't know. As you say there is no real measurements that have been done.

Here is the question I have about measurements. Measurements for a particular product might look technically good on paper however, does that they will always pair well with other devices. or sound good to you? @amirm did testing of the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400, and suggested that before room correction, the results were abysmal. After utilizing Lyngdorf's room correction system, he seemed quite pleased with the measurements. (He didn't seem to be a big fan of the built in DAC but that is another topic). Ok so that's fair. The measurements of the 3400 looked pretty good after room correction. However, does that necessarily mean I will like the way it sounds or more specifically sound with the concept 500s? I want something more powerful than the Lyngdorf 1120 so I would opt for the 3400 if I did.

Here is the thing. The Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 is $8000 usd. The Advance Paris A12 is only $3800 usd and I already ike the way it sounds, and know it sounds good with those speakers I want. Wouldn't it be more worth my while to just get the A12 and a 3rd party room correction, rather than gambling with an amp I may or may not like? That $4200 I save not getting the Lyngdorf 3400 could go towards a better DAC if i don't like the DAC in A12. (It already seems I would want a better dac anyway if I got the 3400). Or has others have suggested, I could get a really comfy chair.

Thanks for your continued insights.
 
Thanks for the detailed reply.

I didn't know that the Hegel wasn't really that clean. You would expect for $12,000 the product would be such. As for the Unico, if those tubes would cause a high amount of distortion as mentioned, that makes more sense. The Hegel though throws me for a loop.

I do not know what was causing me to prefer the sound of the Advance Paris. As people have been mentioning, the tubes in this hybrid amplifier are probably not causing as much distortion as tubes that play a bigger role in an amplifier would. However, I loved the way it sounded. I sounded better than any amp I owned. I owned a rotel pre amp and separates, I also owned a Marantz SR-7013 and sold it. (Not into HT anymore only stereo). I also owned various Yamaha amps. And as I mentioned earlier sounded considerably better than a $12,000 Hegel and a $7000 Unico.

The Advance Paris A12 sounded good on multiple speaker systems. Really shined on the Concept 500s but, since you suggested the concept 500s got good measurements, so that could explain why. Could it be that the Advance Paris, despite the tubes (which people here say tubes are the work of the devil), is just a really well built amp? I don't know. As you say there is no real measurements that have been done.

Here is the question I have about measurements. Measurements for a particular product might look technically good on paper however, does that they will always pair well with other devices. or sound good to you? @amirm did testing of the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400, and suggested that before room correction, the results were abysmal. After utilizing Lyngdorf's room correction system, he seemed quite pleased with the measurements. (He didn't seem to be a big fan of the built in DAC but that is another topic). Ok so that's fair. The measurements of the 3400 looked pretty good after room correction. However, does that necessarily mean I will like the way it sounds or more specifically sound with the concept 500s? I want something more powerful than the Lyngdorf 1120 so I would opt for the 3400 if I did.

Here is the thing. The Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 is $8000 usd. The Advance Paris A12 is only $3800 usd and I already ike the way it sounds, and know it sounds good with those speakers I want. Wouldn't it be more worth my while to just get the A12 and a 3rd party room correction, rather than gambling with an amp I may or may not like? That $4200 I save not getting the Lyngdorf 3400 could go towards a better DAC if i don't like the DAC in A12. (It already seems I would want a better dac anyway if I got the 3400). Or has others have suggested, I could get a really comfy chair.

Thanks for your continued insights.
If you buy the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400, an external DAC is of no use to you.
You would convert the signal to analog in the external DAC and digitize it again in the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400. That makes no sense and the external DAC would not have a positive effect.

On the DAC with old AK4499 chips. With the DX9, Topping has a limited DAC with a fairly well implemented AK4499EQ on the market.
However, I could not hear any advantage in several devices with old and new chips. The implementation is much more important.

For the EQ/DSP, I recommend looking at separate solutions, e.g. based on FIR filters.
Multi-Channel, Multi-Amplifier Audio System Using Software Crossover and Multichannel-DAC
Acourate
 
Measurements for a particular product might look technically good on paper however, does that they will always pair well with other devices. or sound good to you
There are multiple threads covering this on ASR. What has been reliably demonstrated is that the differences that people can hear between two audio electronic devices disappear once output voltage levels are identical. But there are caveats to this position - 1) there should be no significant deviance on frequency response, noise or distortion between the two devices; 2) both devices need to be operating in their designed comfort zone; 3) digital devices must use the same reconstruction filters.

The above is true for properly designed DACs, preamplifiers and power amplifiers (but care is needed with power amplifiers to ensure the devices do not run out of voltage or current and can recover quickly from impulses).

To me, electronic devices which measure well and are operating in the correct way, sound good.
 
Thanks for the detailed reply.

I didn't know that the Hegel wasn't really that clean. You would expect for $12,000 the product would be such. As for the Unico, if those tubes would cause a high amount of distortion as mentioned, that makes more sense. The Hegel though throws me for a loop.

I do not know what was causing me to prefer the sound of the Advance Paris. As people have been mentioning, the tubes in this hybrid amplifier are probably not causing as much distortion as tubes that play a bigger role in an amplifier would. However, I loved the way it sounded. I sounded better than any amp I owned. I owned a rotel pre amp and separates, I also owned a Marantz SR-7013 and sold it. (Not into HT anymore only stereo). I also owned various Yamaha amps. And as I mentioned earlier sounded considerably better than a $12,000 Hegel and a $7000 Unico.

The Advance Paris A12 sounded good on multiple speaker systems. Really shined on the Concept 500s but, since you suggested the concept 500s got good measurements, so that could explain why. Could it be that the Advance Paris, despite the tubes (which people here say tubes are the work of the devil), is just a really well built amp? I don't know. As you say there is no real measurements that have been done.

Here is the question I have about measurements. Measurements for a particular product might look technically good on paper however, does that they will always pair well with other devices. or sound good to you? @amirm did testing of the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400, and suggested that before room correction, the results were abysmal. After utilizing Lyngdorf's room correction system, he seemed quite pleased with the measurements. (He didn't seem to be a big fan of the built in DAC but that is another topic). Ok so that's fair. The measurements of the 3400 looked pretty good after room correction. However, does that necessarily mean I will like the way it sounds or more specifically sound with the concept 500s? I want something more powerful than the Lyngdorf 1120 so I would opt for the 3400 if I did.

Here is the thing. The Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 is $8000 usd. The Advance Paris A12 is only $3800 usd and I already ike the way it sounds, and know it sounds good with those speakers I want. Wouldn't it be more worth my while to just get the A12 and a 3rd party room correction, rather than gambling with an amp I may or may not like? That $4200 I save not getting the Lyngdorf 3400 could go towards a better DAC if i don't like the DAC in A12. (It already seems I would want a better dac anyway if I got the 3400). Or has others have suggested, I could get a really comfy chair.

Thanks for your continued insights.
Briefly:
Tubes aren't the work of the devil. With everything, it's implementation. That I would say is the considered view of many here with much more expertise than I have.

Your preference is what counts at the end of the day. The science as it is put here is a starting point but never the end game. Use it to inform you - and read and look at the complete picture of your proposed system in the light of science and engineering, but the amp and speakers you propose if used properly are good enough.
Yes, the $4200 you save with that amp can go into all sorts of different options. I personally think that capability is important as well as source first - so you can buy the source with software and features that suit your use and access the music in a way that suit you, you can add DSP (or indeed not) as you find suitable for the sound.

Regarding the Lyngdorf, it is designed to be used with RoomPerfect enabled and used, and that is how it should be used, and that is how Amir liked it. If you got that amp, you would use it with RoomPerfect, so the measurements without are in many ways moot. Any component needs to be used within its use case and capabilities. There are many excellent low powered amps around that will measure well within their specification, but that doesn't mean you plug them into a pair of 801D4 speakers and expect them to do well at realistic volume.

You've made a good case for the amp and speakers you want to buy and despite my questioning, they will work well for you as long as you put the speakers in the right place in the right room.

Judicious use of room correction should improve sound further, but there are many here with good systems that don't use it and still report excellent results. At some point you have to buy: it seems to me that the amp and speakers you want to buy are compatible, so you can buy with confidence. (Even with the damned tubes from hell). Maybe get a measuring mic, with some of that saving, measure with REW once things are in place, and come here with questions when you can see what EQ you may need for final improvements.

Time for some music
 
I would add that tubes are often used to enhance the sound of the source material. This is not strictly speaking the most high fidelity or purist approach, and lots of folks here frown on it. However, in the end I would suggest that you go with what sounds best to you. You could also buy a good basic class A/B amp cheaply second hand and have both to compare...
My 2c
 
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