Room correction in a stereo amp

[JustAnAudioLover]

Hi there!

After much trial and error, I'm considering getting rid of my current home theater system and only keeping my L/R and my subwoofer. The only way I can place my surrounds are very close to my listening position, and even though they are bipoles I can clearly locate where they are, which is not enjoyable.

But the problem I have is room correction. Currently I use Audyssey XT32 with Dynamic EQ, which works very well. Without the surrounds, I don't use any of the AVR's features, only the stereo amp, subwoofer line out and room correction.

Which brings me to my question: what good room correction can be had in a stereo amp without breaking the bank?

My current AVR is a Denon X3800H, which cost me about $1k. I thought about getting a miniDSP DDRC-24, a UMIK-1, and a Topping PA5 II, but it would cost me about $800 where I live, and I wouldn't have Dynamic EQ anyway (which is something I really really love about Audyssey). Which is pretty crazy to me given that the Denon's cost includes Dolby & DTS licenses, 11 DACs & amplifiers (even if they're not perfect), upmixing and downmixing support, etc. etc.

I've seen extremely positive reviews about RoomPerfect but it's only available on super expensive amps.

More basic room corrections like the one found in Wiim's Amp seem a lot more basic.

Any idea of an amplifier / preamp with good affordable room correction? Thanks

 

[amadeogt]

Can't you keep the Denon, and use Audyssey with L/R only? It would be way simpler.

 

[staticV3]

AFAIK, WiiM are currently working on adding dynamic EQ to the Amp and Amp Pro.

With that, the Pro would be ideal IMO. Fully adjustable 10-band PEQ is plenty.

 

[JustAnAudioLover]

Can't you keep the Denon, and use Audyssey with L/R only? It would be way simpler.

Well I'm considering returning it (still in the 14 day period after i upgraded my previous avr). Spending 1k just for room correction seems a bit excessive. Also the AVR is really big, I really don't like chunky boxes if I don't absolutely need them.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

After much trial and error, I'm considering getting rid of my current home theater system and only keeping my L/R and my subwoofer. The only way I can place my surrounds are very close to my listening position, and even though they are bipoles I can clearly locate where they are, which is not enjoyable.

Sad situation indeed. However, there are things that can be done to reduce the proximity effect of the speakers being too close to the listening position.

For one, if at all possible, get them above ear level. At least 6 ft. up from the floor is a good starting point.

Second, reduce the highs. Perceived high frequency levels reduce as they travel through air. Naturally, this works against you when the speakers are close; the highs are unnaturally exaggerated. Reducing the highs can approximate the same “effect” as moving the speakers further away.

Third, reduce the volume of the speakers as needed. As with the highs, SPL in general drops over distance. Speakers located close are going to have a tendency to sound louder unless adjustments are made.

This next suggestion might be more theory than reality. It has to do with the common belief that sitting off-center between the left or right speakers, the closer one sounds louder because – well, it’s closer. In fact, it only sounds louder because of the delay issue: Reduce the delay time of the closer speaker to where it matches the arrival time of the further speaker, and your ears then perceive the two speakers as volume-matched.

I don’t know for sure if this trick works for front/back as it does with left/right, but IMO it’s worth a try. Thus, you might try adding substantial delay time to the back speakers – 10-20 ms maybe.

I have an unusual situation with my two back speakers in that the left is 8 ft. from the MLP, and right is 13 ft. Both are ~7ft. up on the back wall. I’ve had fits getting perceived levels balanced. “By the book” settings, merely compensating for the delay difference, wasn’t cutting it: The left speaker always sounded noticeably louder than the right.

It took some experimenting, but (1) reducing the highs on the left speaker, combined with (2) raising the volume of the right speaker, (3) increasing the highs on the right speaker, and (4) reducing the “correct” delay time on the right speaker (so that the brain thinks it’s closer than it really is – hopefully!) was the ticket.

So, if you haven’t tried these tricks yet, might be worth the effort. Good luck!

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[JustAnAudioLover]

Sad situation indeed. However, there are things that can be done to reduce the proximity effect of the speakers being too close to the listening position.

For one, if at all possible, get them above ear level. At least 6 ft. up from the floor is a good starting point.

Second, reduce the highs. Perceived high frequency levels reduce as they travel through air. Naturally, this works against you when the speakers are close; the highs are unnaturally exaggerated. Reducing the highs can approximate the same “effect” as moving the speakers further away.

Third, reduce the volume of the speakers as needed. As with the highs, SPL in general drops over distance. Speakers located close are going to have a tendency to sound louder unless adjustments are made.

This next suggestion might be more theory than reality. It has to do with the common belief that sitting off-center between the left or right speakers, the closer one sounds louder because – well, it’s closer. In fact, it only sounds louder because of the delay issue: Reduce the delay time of the closer speaker to where it matches the arrival time of the further speaker, and your ears then perceive the two speakers as volume-matched.

I don’t know for sure if this trick works for front/back as it does with left/right, but IMO it’s worth a try. Thus, you might try adding substantial delay time to the back speakers – 10-20 ms maybe.

I have an unusual situation with my two back speakers in that the left is 8 ft. from the MLP, and right is 13 ft. Both are ~7ft. up on the back wall. I’ve had fits getting perceived levels balanced. “By the book” settings, merely compensating for the delay difference, wasn’t cutting it: The left speaker always sounded noticeably louder than the right.

It took some experimenting, but (1) reducing the highs on the left speaker, combined with (2) raising the volume of the right speaker, (3) increasing the highs on the right speaker, and (4) reducing the “correct” delay time on the right speaker (so that the brain thinks it’s closer than it really is – hopefully!) was the ticket.

So, if you haven’t tried these tricks yet, might be worth the effort. Good luck!

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Thanks for your comment
The bottom of the speaker is at ear level (so the woofer is about 15 cm above ear level I think). If I put it higher it sounds like everything's coming from above which is really not enjoyable.
I reduced the volume of the surrounds but they still feel very close. I'll try reducing highs but not sure how much this will improve things.

 

[ZolaIII]

Yamaha only with YPAO which is not great and YPAO automatic loudness starting from R-N 1000A and still big and priced more than Denon AVR (about 1400 €/$).