Room correction options that wont ruin the sound of tube amp?

[JustJones]

Room correction options that wont ruin the sound of tube amp?​

I don't know about ruin but all room correction will alter the sound you hear in your room, if done correctly it should be for the better. That's the whole point of room correction whether it’s active with DSP or passive with acoustic panels.

 

[GXAlan]

I am buying a 2 channel stereo system that

What speakers do you plan to buy and what integrated amp?
1- if you love the amp, go with what you love. The worst thing in the hobby is the upgrade treadmill or changing treadmill. Buy the cheapest setup you can, then save up “two months salary” worth to splurge on your end game for life. That lets you price out what your end game will be. Obviously, it takes more than two months to save that much equivalent.

The science supports data to predict preference but individuals may prefer something that isn’t neutral.

2- tubes won’t be “throttled” by DSP. People listen to CDs and streaming DACs all the time with tube electronics or non-linear speakers.

3- enjoying the system without room correction is a great idea. Here, the argument is that it’s a lot harder to position your speakers perfectly or upgrade your room. Room EQ is the most cost effective way to alter your sound signature. That said, if you had a piano in your room, you wouldn’t correct it. If you had a men’s acapella group where their voice gets into the bass/sub bass where room effects are present, you wouldn’t correct it. In the right combination of speaker, furniture, and room, you might be OK. Only way to know is to measure it.

Room effects can also be used to your advantage. When we put subwoofers in corners, we are trying to amplify and exaggerate the sound.

Hold on. While I was drafting this message over the day, I saw your post about having a $20K budget.

Take a look at the Marantz PM-10 / SA-10 / Q Acoustics 500 combo.

I would tell you to sit tight. Your Q Acoustics 500 since it’s a solid choice and looks are an important element. But the Q500 occasionally gets cleared out at $4k from authorized dealers.

With a $20K budget, you don’t want to rush into a decision since there is a lot you can do.

I would consider

Option 1: Tube fan
JBL 4367 - $16500
Luxman SQ-N150 - $2200 used
WiiM Ultra or WiiM Pro Plus depending if you want AirPlay.

The Luxman only puts out 10W but distortion dominates giving you a lot of tube non linearity. You will be able to swap to solid state later and still benefit from a speaker that was loved both by Greg Timbers (the emotional side of JBL) and the science side. It’s very easy to sell the Luxman back as opposed to the QConcepts 500. You are always better off putting money into your speakers because it’s harder to upgrade them over time.

Me personally for a 2.2 channel setup
WiiM Ultra
Trinnov Nova 4 ch or Marantz AV10- $5K
Meyer Sound X20 pair - $10K
PSA S1512M pair - $2.2K

Trinnov for tweaking and superior sound. Marantz for superior ergonomics.

Even if you are using the AV10 as a stereo processor, like the NAD M66, you have excellent bass management.

 

[Chr1]

Indeed. Also, worth mentioning : You have a decent budget there. If you buy most of the gear secondhand, you could most likely have the last system listed above plus a good valve amp and passive speakers too. Win win.

Note: My mrs says that I am a hoarder of all things audio. Best ignored then.

 

[Snarfie]

I use a small fanless MiniPC as my streamer with MathAudio RoomEQ, which is free for use with Foobar2000. This feeds a Topping E50 DAC, which in turn feeds either Neumann KH310s or a VTL ST-85 valve amp and Tannoy V12s. I have various RoomEQ presets for these which also integrate a couple of active subs within the two systems. The ability to use EQ, RoomEQ with the valve amplifier has been a game changer and I see no reason why you shouldn't use DSP with valves. It's been done in recording studios for many years.

Chr which minipc are you using maby some specs ram for instance. Can u use up >98khz without sacrificing system resources. Thanx

 

[Chr1]

Using various. All fanless:

Minix Z100-0DB : 16gb RAM
Beelink T34 Gemini : 8gb RAM
Beelink AP34 Pro : 6gb RAM
Beelink AP34 : 4gb RAM

All play pretty much everything bit-perfectly without issues, including DSD via Foobar2000. Would recommend 6gb RAM min if you want to multitask tho. 4gb fine when used as an endpoint/player only.

 

[marked sound]

I simply suggest you audition a good sounding solid state amp against the A12. From what I remember, the Hegel isn't that.

Preferring the A12 to the alternatives simply tells me you have already preferred a less distorting amplifier, and given your option 1 you should try that road. You're hanging on to an idea about the A12 that just may not be true.

If you prefer the A12 it is either because you are "hearing" a non-sonic aspect, or because it does have a sound you prefer. If it has a different sound it comes from certain things, either frequency response, harmonic distortion, or a mixture of the two. In your room, you will be able to see the characteristics through measurements, and the room correction does that. Harmonic distortion will probably not be affected: frequency response will. You don't need to use full range correction, and anything in the bass region will be different in each room anyway. The room and the speaker placement will dominate the amplifier.

As I pointed out, you also have the options of not using room correction - it's allowed, you know! - and you can use room treatments instead if you need improvements. At the end of the day, it's all entirely up to you. It's what you prefer that is important in the end. The "science" is the starting point. We can guess what you might like in blind testing and we can suggest it transfers to sighted listening for the most part, but by no means entirely.

So, what I'm suggesting isn't "you need this", but "start here and try this". Try a more neutral amp, try different approaches to room correction, but don't feel obliged to use any of it unless it works for you.

Apart from the rug and whatever else will dampen the room responses a bit. That, and good speaker placement in the room, they are the important things. Correction and EQ will always work better with the basics already done well.

If in doubt about this, stop asking questions here and read Toole's book. A few dollars to buy that is worth thousands in equipment budget.

What speakers do you plan to buy and what integrated amp?
1- if you love the amp, go with what you love. The worst thing in the hobby is the upgrade treadmill or changing treadmill. Buy the cheapest setup you can, then save up “two months salary” worth to splurge on your end game for life. That lets you price out what your end game will be. Obviously, it takes more than two months to save that much equivalent.

The science supports data to predict preference but individuals may prefer something that isn’t neutral.

2- tubes won’t be “throttled” by DSP. People listen to CDs and streaming DACs all the time with tube electronics or non-linear speakers.

3- enjoying the system without room correction is a great idea. Here, the argument is that it’s a lot harder to position your speakers perfectly or upgrade your room. Room EQ is the most cost effective way to alter your sound signature. That said, if you had a piano in your room, you wouldn’t correct it. If you had a men’s acapella group where their voice gets into the bass/sub bass where room effects are present, you wouldn’t correct it. In the right combination of speaker, furniture, and room, you might be OK. Only way to know is to measure it.

Room effects can also be used to your advantage. When we put subwoofers in corners, we are trying to amplify and exaggerate the sound.

Hold on. While I was drafting this message over the day, I saw your post about having a $20K budget.

Take a look at the Marantz PM-10 / SA-10 / Q Acoustics 500 combo.

I would tell you to sit tight. Your Q Acoustics 500 since it’s a solid choice and looks are an important element. But the Q500 occasionally gets cleared out at $4k from authorized dealers.

With a $20K budget, you don’t want to rush into a decision since there is a lot you can do.

I would consider

Option 1: Tube fan
JBL 4367 - $16500
Luxman SQ-N150 - $2200 used
WiiM Ultra or WiiM Pro Plus depending if you want AirPlay.

The Luxman only puts out 10W but distortion dominates giving you a lot of tube non linearity. You will be able to swap to solid state later and still benefit from a speaker that was loved both by Greg Timbers (the emotional side of JBL) and the science side. It’s very easy to sell the Luxman back as opposed to the QConcepts 500. You are always better off putting money into your speakers because it’s harder to upgrade them over time.

Me personally for a 2.2 channel setup
WiiM Ultra
Trinnov Nova 4 ch or Marantz AV10- $5K
Meyer Sound X20 pair - $10K
PSA S1512M pair - $2.2K

Trinnov for tweaking and superior sound. Marantz for superior ergonomics.

Even if you are using the AV10 as a stereo processor, like the NAD M66, you have excellent bass management.

I put a deposit on a pair of Q Acoustic A500 that the audio store used as a demo at a few shows, for $4650 usd all in, taxes included. Based on how good these speakers sound, how good the measurements are, and the price I am getting them for, I have no desire to look at other speakers. That is unless I win the lottery, then my dream speakers, The Revel Salon 2 will be purchased. Also, in that case then the sky is the limit for amps. (Mark Levinson, Krell etc?)

The Marantz PM-10 is intriguing, however it has zero digital inputs and I think it is meant to paired with the SA-10. Which is sub-par as a DAC. If I was going to spend the kind of money on a PM-10, I would just opt for a Krell K-300i. It at least has tons of different inputs and gets great reviews. I also seen some places selling the Krell used for as cheap as $3500-$6000 used. (Makes me wonder why so many used for sale though).

If I was going to opt for separates, there are some high end Streamer/DAC/Preamp options out there I could feed some quality amps to.

What I like about the Advance Paris A12 amp is that: it sounds great to my ears, pairs really well with speakers I am buying, gets great reviews. is very affordable looks fantastic, and is very reasonable in price. ($3799 usd)

I finally found a website that has done some measurements on the A12, and they seem very impressed. Here is the link below. Cheers!

One moment, please...

 

[marked sound]

OK. So a hybrid amp with a couple of tubes in the preamp section doing... something. There's an inbuilt DAC that will probably be perfectly adequate. There's a power amp in section for when you come to your senses. I'm not surprised you chose that over the other two amps auditioned, which both have serious measurable issues. You are choosing a cleaner amp than the others you auditioned... and based purely on what "the science" says, you should go a lot further down that road... seriously, consider the Lyngdorf!

I can find no measurements for this Advance Paris product. We have no idea what this amp is really doing. There's no damping factor or equivalent spec to tell if it will be affected by speaker impedance.
There are no independent measurements that I can find. Still, it should drive your choice of speakers. There's a USB input if you want to use a computer or a streamer without using its DAC. There are power amp inputs, so you could try a DAC/preamp at some point in the future when you realise the tubes aren't really such a good idea.
So nothing too bad necessarily, but an unknown quantity.

https://www.advanceparis.com/en/product/a12-classic/ for anyone who wants to look

The speakers appear to be a good choice, good measurements according to threads here and the amp will drive them. Simply, with good speakers and a reasonably damped room, you are 90% of the way there, regardless of a couple of tubes in the pre or some/no room correction. So make sure that you at least have a thick rug on the floor, and that the speakers are optimally placed (so you may need a little more than that two feet away from the wall, rather than less). You get more bass closer to the wall, but unless the rear port is well controlled and the speaker is designed to be close to the wall, you will end up with a less detailed sound into the bargain, and maybe a few other surprises.
Follow the advice in the user guide.

The streamer or PC are as much about ergonomics as anything else. You mentioned a computer: I might suggest a reasonable fanless PC with Roon, and measure with REW to get a useable EQ to add. Plenty can advise you here on that. Roon isn't cheap, but still cheaper than a DMP10, so you have budget for it. If you want automatic room correction, there are PC apps you can get for that.

Just use the built in DAC for now.

The tubes are probably adding some THD rather than messing with the FR a lot, so any "sound" will come through with the EQ/DSP/room correction, but honestly and repeating the point, I think you would still prefer a more accurate amp in practice. Still, I think you'll be good enough in practice based on what you've said, though you could be better.

And please, forget the DAC chip BS, that's about engineering, not the chip chosen.

Here is a link to measurements of the Advance Paris A12 Classic below. Cheers!

https://www.alpha-audio.net/review/...2-integrated-amplifier-frivolous-frenchman/4/

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Here is a link to measurements of the Advance Paris A12 Classic below. Cheers!

https://www.alpha-audio.net/review/...2-integrated-amplifier-frivolous-frenchman/4/

Interesting. A good amplifier and just about adequate digital solution.

 

[Galliardist]

I put a deposit on a pair of Q Acoustic A500 that the audio store used as a demo at a few shows, for $4650 usd all in, taxes included. Based on how good these speakers sound, how good the measurements are, and the price I am getting them for, I have no desire to look at other speakers. That is unless I win the lottery, then my dream speakers, The Revel Salon 2 will be purchased. Also, in that case then the sky is the limit for amps. (Mark Levinson, Krell etc?)

The Marantz PM-10 is intriguing, however it has zero digital inputs and I think it is meant to paired with the SA-10. Which is sub-par as a DAC. If I was going to spend the kind of money on a PM-10, I would just opt for a Krell K-300i. It at least has tons of different inputs and gets great reviews. I also seen some places selling the Krell used for as cheap as $3500-$6000 used. (Makes me wonder why so many used for sale though).

If I was going to opt for separates, there are some high end Streamer/DAC/Preamp options out there I could feed some quality amps to.

What I like about the Advance Paris A12 amp is that: it sounds great to my ears, pairs really well with speakers I am buying, gets great reviews. is very affordable looks fantastic, and is very reasonable in price. ($3799 usd)

I finally found a website that has done some measurements on the A12, and they seem very impressed. Here is the link below. Cheers!

One moment, please...

I own the PM-10 and the SA-10. The DAC in the SA-10 is certainly not "sub-par" but audibly identical to anything you will find, in actual use. In terms of audibility, anything in the green or blue ranges in the SINAD chart here is adequate. You need to understand that to use the measurements here - read in more detail than just the chart or even the recommendation.

However, unless you require a disc player, the SA-10 is way overpriced and does not have features you are looking for. The PM-10 can be used with any component with RCA or XLR inputs though. It'sn an excellent amp with the right speakers.

I wouldn't recommend either of them to you in this instance.

If you want to look at a good Marantz amp (though no balanced inputs) the Model 30 is a better bet, and you can buy well measuriing Hypex power amps for less than either. (Unless the PM-10 is heavily reduced, as it might be as it has just been discontinued).

We can now conclude that the A12 is plenty good enough. You like and can afford it. Buy it. Move on to the source component.

 

[GXAlan]

I put a deposit on a pair of Q Acoustic 500 that the audio store used as a demo at a few shows, for $4650 usd all in, taxes included.

Awesome deal!

The Marantz PM-10 is intriguing

The main point is that HypeX Class D is great for the musicality of the speaker.

What I like about the Advance Paris A12 amp is that: it sounds great to my ears, pairs really well with speakers I am buying, gets great reviews. is very affordable looks fantastic, and is very reasonable in price. ($3799 usd)

Marantz PM-10 Reference Integrated Amplifier Open Box

Marantz PM-10 Reference Integrated Amplifier Open Box Amplifiers are at the core of Marantz history: its very first product was a high-quality preamplifier designed to make the most of the then-new LP record format. And with a history stretching all the way to that ground-breaking Audio...

www.safeandsoundhq.com

PM-10’s are “obsolete” now that the $15K Model 10 is out, so you can get new ones for $4500 (“open box” so as not to violate MAP, but you can call them and get that price new). Main weakness is a lack of subwoofer out.

They are more expensive than generic HypeX amps, but the bridged design does reduce distortion to Nilai levels and the preamp and phono stage are very good. You can use any source you want since the balanced XLR in are available.

We can now conclude that the A12 is plenty good enough. You like and can afford it. Buy it. Move on to the source component.

+1 on this. It’s your (@marked sound) money. You won’t find consensus everywhere but I did sell my PM-10/SA-10 combo for just $5K, and for the money it’s hard to beat. The SA-10 is very responsive as a disc player.

I had no complaints, but my Meyer Sound Amie’s had the effect of upgrading my room, and didn’t have the budget of keeping both.

 

[Galliardist]

Awesome deal!




The main point is that HypeX Class D is great for the musicality of the speaker.

Marantz PM-10 Reference Integrated Amplifier Open Box

Marantz PM-10 Reference Integrated Amplifier Open Box Amplifiers are at the core of Marantz history: its very first product was a high-quality preamplifier designed to make the most of the then-new LP record format. And with a history stretching all the way to that ground-breaking Audio...

www.safeandsoundhq.com

PM-10’s are “obsolete” now that the $15K Model 10 is out, so you can get new ones for $4500 (“open box” so as not to violate MAP, but you can call them and get that price new). Main weakness is a lack of subwoofer out.

They are more expensive than generic HypeX amps, but the bridged design does reduce distortion to Nilai levels and the preamp and phono stage are very good. You can use any source you want since the balanced XLR in are available.


+1 on this. It’s your (@marked sound) money. You won’t find consensus everywhere but I did sell my PM-10/SA-10 combo for just $5K, and for the money it’s hard to beat. The SA-10 is very responsive as a disc player.

I had no complaints, but my Meyer Sound Amie’s had the effect of upgrading my room, and didn’t have the budget of keeping both.

Thanks for contributing here.

 

[marked sound]

I own the PM-10 and the SA-10. The DAC in the SA-10 is certainly not "sub-par" but audibly identical to anything you will find, in actual use. In terms of audibility, anything in the green or blue ranges in the SINAD chart here is adequate. You need to understand that to use the measurements here - read in more detail than just the chart or even the recommendation.

However, unless you require a disc player, the SA-10 is way overpriced and does not have features you are looking for. The PM-10 can be used with any component with RCA or XLR inputs though. It'sn an excellent amp with the right speakers.

I wouldn't recommend either of them to you in this instance.

If you want to look at a good Marantz amp (though no balanced inputs) the Model 30 is a better bet, and you can buy well measuriing Hypex power amps for less than either. (Unless the PM-10 is heavily reduced, as it might be as it has just been discontinued).

We can now conclude that the A12 is plenty good enough. You like and can afford it. Buy it. Move on to the source component.

I did not know you had the SA-10, and I certainly did not mean to offend. I was just going off a review of it that @amirm did, where while he didn't find anything necessarily offensive about SA-10, he wasn't exactly stoked about it either compared to other offerings. To be fair though I did watch another video by him that puts all these measurements in context and he suggested, as long as any less than perfect measurements for a particular device are inaudible, that is what really matters.

I have owned a Marantz amp (SR7013) in the past when I was into home theatre, and I really enjoyed it. My brother also has a Marantz powering his Atmos home theatre room and he quite likes it. Musically, his amp sounds pretty good as well, even though it's main purpose is for home theatre. I have a soft spot for Marantz because I've always perceived any system I have heard from them as having a warm and inviting sound.

There is a video someone posted with Ken Ishiwata from Marantz doing a demo of the PM-10 / SA-10 with the exact speakers I am getting. He suggested the Concept 500s are the best speakers he has ever heard and that the PM-10 pairs very nicely with them. For that reason, and based on the specs and architecture of the PM-10, and based on my prior positive experience with Marantz, the PM-10 really intrigued me. The only thing that put me off was lack of connectivity, and the fact that it would be fairly difficult to "try before I buy", this amp. Since I have already heard the amp I wish to purchase, with the speakers I wish to purchase, there is the old adage of, "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

Three things I will look into once I get the amp and speakers are: #1. A better DAC. Only reasons for doing so is that my brother upgraded his DAC from the internal one of the A12, did some a/b-ing, and claims he gets much better sound. And also reviews suggest the DAC in the A12 isnt the greatest. I of course will listen to the internal DAC of the A12 first, however my only experience with the A12 is with the after market DAC my brother purchased. #2. Next will be either A fanless PC with room correction software, or a miniDSP. #3. Lastly subs, after listening and if I feel I need them. I have a sub in mind that I am thinking of getting 2 of if I feel I need them.

SB-3000 Subwoofer | SVS

Most popular SVS sealed cabinet subwoofer of all time. Massive, pinpoint accurate bass from a compact cabinet.

www.svsound.com

With all this in mind. I realize there are 2 kinds of audiophiles. Ones that listen to music, and ones that listen to equipment. I am definitely one that listens to music. I am someone who can sit and listen to music for hours, and plan on doing so when I get my new system. Barring me winning the lottery, or some other significant advancement in sound comes out, this will be the last system I buy. (Says every audiophile ever before they upgrade yet again )

 

[GXAlan]

where while he didn't find anything necessarily offensive about SA-10, he wasn't exactly stoked about it either compared to other offerings.

1) At full retail, it’s pretty pricey.
2) Stuff like a quiet disc drive costs money and a lot of people don’t care about physical media
3) It’s one of the rare products that lets you make a “mix” DVD with flac or dsf files.

There is statistically higher noise which is why it doesn’t hit 120 dB SINAD, but you can see in a multitone that the SA-10 actually has fewer “spikes” than something like a reference Topping.

I have a soft spot for Marantz because I've always perceived any system I have heard from them as having a warm and inviting sound.

When you read the design interviews of the PM-10 they talk about the HypeX amps having no sound signature and so they have to tune the sound through the preamp stage.

Now, sound tuning is controversial here. Most people here say it’s all sighted bias. I really hear subtle differences sometimes but the difference is vanishingly small.

Again, criticism is that it’s a lot of money to spend when you could have spent it on speakers or a sub. But I do believe there is a difference.

Integrated Amplifier Comparison: $90 vs $9000

I continue to hear differences between amplifiers that might be expected to be inaudibly different. That is, for two high-SINAD systems that I'm not running into clipping, I hear differences. I also believe in measurements. My perspective has been consistent: "Everything that can be measured...

www.audiosciencereview.com

He suggested the Concept 500s are the best speakers he has ever heard and that the PM-10 pairs very nicely with them. For that reason, and based on the specs and architecture of the PM-10, and based on my prior positive experience with Marantz, the PM-10 really intrigued me.

And my main point was that you don’t have to worry about class D sapping the musicality but you may find tunability in the preamp. The tube hybrid you are looking at sort of matches that ethos.

With all this in mind. I realize there are 2 kinds of audiophiles. Ones that listen to music, and ones that listen to equipment. I am definitely one that listens to music. I am someone who can sit and listen to music for hours, and plan on doing so when I get my new system. Barring me winning the lottery, or some other significant advancement in sound comes out, this will be the last system I buy. (Says every audiophile ever before they upgrade yet again )

Enjoy! Nothing bad with the SVS but it’s also worth looking at PowerSoundAudio. It’s founded by one of the original founders of SVS and they basically drop the look and app support to put it all in the woofer and amp. If you are already using an upstream DSP, then this gives you a lot of output and extension for the money. Probably overkill for a music setup (as compared to a movie setup). You have find the Concept 500 to be a nice balance as-is.

Tom Vodhanel, President, Power Sound Audio

Tom Vodhanel is president and founder of Power Sound Audio, an Ohio-based company that specializes in subwoofers and sells direct through its website. Tom is also known as the “V” in SVS, another company that started out as a subwoofer specialist, and which he co-founded. Excerpts from this...

www.soundandvision.com

 

[marked sound]

1) At full retail, it’s pretty pricey.
2) Stuff like a quiet disc drive costs money and a lot of people don’t care about physical media
3) It’s one of the rare products that lets you make a “mix” DVD with flac or dsf files.

There is statistically higher noise which is why it doesn’t hit 120 dB SINAD, but you can see in a multitone that the SA-10 actually has fewer “spikes” than something like a reference Topping.
View attachment 408436
View attachment 408437



When you read the design interviews of the PM-10 they talk about the HypeX amps having no sound signature and so they have to tune the sound through the preamp stage.

Now, sound tuning is controversial here. Most people here say it’s all sighted bias. I really hear subtle differences sometimes but the difference is vanishingly small.

Again, criticism is that it’s a lot of money to spend when you could have spent it on speakers or a sub. But I do believe there is a difference.

Integrated Amplifier Comparison: $90 vs $9000

I continue to hear differences between amplifiers that might be expected to be inaudibly different. That is, for two high-SINAD systems that I'm not running into clipping, I hear differences. I also believe in measurements. My perspective has been consistent: "Everything that can be measured...

www.audiosciencereview.com

And my main point was that you don’t have to worry about class D sapping the musicality but you may find tunability in the preamp. The tube hybrid you are looking at sort of matches that ethos.



Enjoy! Nothing bad with the SVS but it’s also worth looking at PowerSoundAudio. It’s founded by one of the original founders of SVS and they basically drop the look and app support to put it all in the woofer and amp. If you are already using an upstream DSP, then this gives you a lot of output and extension for the money. Probably overkill for a music setup (as compared to a movie setup). You have find the Concept 500 to be a nice balance as-is.

Tom Vodhanel, President, Power Sound Audio

Tom Vodhanel is president and founder of Power Sound Audio, an Ohio-based company that specializes in subwoofers and sells direct through its website. Tom is also known as the “V” in SVS, another company that started out as a subwoofer specialist, and which he co-founded. Excerpts from this...

www.soundandvision.com

I am glad you are happy with your Marantz system. I can see now that the SA-10 is a component piece geared at a specific target audience. I plan on streaming my media through Qobuz. I only plan to consider subs once the system is in my house, and I have had a chance to evaluate if I need more bass. Considering the response of the Concept 500s is 41 hz - 30 khz. I might find i need it.

On another note, I found this device made by McIntosh. It looks like a stereo amplifier but all it is, is a box that does RoomPerfect. (Lyngdorf's room correction). I am guessing you plug your source into it before plugging it in your amp? At $6500 usd, I cant imagine why anyone would buy this and not just opt for Lyngdorf amplifier, or otherwise look for more affordable room correction options for their existing setup.

 

[Roland68]

On another note, I found this device made by McIntosh. It looks like a stereo amplifier but all it is, is a box that does RoomPerfect. (Lyngdorf's room correction). I am guessing you plug your source into it before plugging it in your amp? At $6500 usd, I cant imagine why anyone would buy this and not just opt for Lyngdorf amplifier, or otherwise look for more affordable room correction options for their existing setup.

For me there would be a very simple but very serious reason not to buy it.
I don't want to have anything from BOSE at home

 

[GXAlan]

I am glad you are happy with your Marantz system.

Yes, I *was* happy with it. I tried the Meyer Sound Amie studio monitors which were active and loved them. Problem was that they are super expensive and I had to make the decision between keeping a “forever/end game” amp or the “forever/end game bookshelf monitor”

Considering the response of the Concept 500s is 41 hz - 30 khz. I might find i need it.

Definitely a good idea to try it with even a WiiM streamer as your DSP to start in your own home. I am sure you looked at the Stereophile review, but if you look here, the in room response could easily get to 20 Hz if you were not listening extra loud.

Q Acoustics Concept 500 loudspeaker TJN'S In-Room Measurements

Sidebar 3: TJN'S In-Room Measurements To provide a picture of what the Concept 500s sounded like in my room. I ran a number of in-room measurements on the Q Acoustics Concept 500s using the OmniMic test system from Parts Express. I took all of these at my main listening seat, with the speakers...

www.stereophile.com

The reality is that there isn’t a lot of musical content that really goes down that deep, and while a play anything and everything setup is great, I still find that most music rolls off much earlier.

On another note, I found this device made by McIntosh. It looks like a stereo amplifier but all it is, is a box that does RoomPerfect. (Lyngdorf's room correction). I am guessing you plug your source into it before plugging it in your amp? At $6500 usd, I cant imagine why anyone would buy this and not just opt for Lyngdorf amplifier, or otherwise look for more affordable room correction options for their existing setup.

It’s like a MiniDSP that can go from your source or more typically between your preamp and amp in a separates system. The MEN220 was released in 2010 at $4500 back then. You were paying the McIntosh price for the looks (and customer service) and in 2010, it was a lot harder to find good DSP.

You joked about winning the lottery, but many people buy a Corvette or other sports car as their retirement gift. Others spend that kind of money on audio, and a full top to bottom McIntosh stack is where the MEN220 comes in.

Personally, the Trinnov Nova is your best bet for fancy DSP for a non home theater setup.

If you ask three audiophiles what to get, you will get four opinions. But if I were in your spot, having never heard the hybrid tube amp you describe, I would probably get the Trinnov Nova and a Buckeye Purifi amp for an all digital system. But I would tolerate the lack of an IR remote and need for the studio esque remote.

The Trinnov room EQ is incredibly powerful and tunable.

 

[marked sound]

Anyone know how the

Yes, I *was* happy with it. I tried the Meyer Sound Amie studio monitors which were active and loved them. Problem was that they are super expensive and I had to make the decision between keeping a “forever/end game” amp or the “forever/end game bookshelf monitor”



Definitely a good idea to try it with even a WiiM streamer as your DSP to start in your own home. I am sure you looked at the Stereophile review, but if you look here, the in room response could easily get to 20 Hz if you were not listening extra loud.

Q Acoustics Concept 500 loudspeaker TJN'S In-Room Measurements

Sidebar 3: TJN'S In-Room Measurements To provide a picture of what the Concept 500s sounded like in my room. I ran a number of in-room measurements on the Q Acoustics Concept 500s using the OmniMic test system from Parts Express. I took all of these at my main listening seat, with the speakers...

www.stereophile.com

The reality is that there isn’t a lot of musical content that really goes down that deep, and while a play anything and everything setup is great, I still find that most music rolls off much earlier.



It’s like a MiniDSP that can go from your source or more typically between your preamp and amp in a separates system. The MEN220 was released in 2010 at $4500 back then. You were paying the McIntosh price for the looks (and customer service) and in 2010, it was a lot harder to find good DSP.

You joked about winning the lottery, but many people buy a Corvette or other sports car as their retirement gift. Others spend that kind of money on audio, and a full top to bottom McIntosh stack is where the MEN220 comes in.

Personally, the Trinnov Nova is your best bet for fancy DSP for a non home theater setup.

If you ask three audiophiles what to get, you will get four opinions. But if I were in your spot, having never heard the hybrid tube amp you describe, I would probably get the Trinnov Nova and a Buckeye Purifi amp for an all digital system. But I would tolerate the lack of an IR remote and need for the studio esque remote.

The Trinnov room EQ is incredibly powerful and tunable.

Question for you. (And I have to leave and will reply later). How do I properly integrate room correction in my system if I buy the Advance Paris amp? If my Advance Paris is the last thing connected to my speakers, wouldn't any room correction done at the source be colored by the characteristics of the amp? Is there something I need to plug the Amp into before hitting the speakers? I understand how the MEN220 would work with separates. However, I'm still confused on how you get room correction with an integrated amplifier that doesn't have it built in. Does the room correction still just use the integrated amp as sort of a bypass to the speakers, and adjust the sonic characteristics of the "source" according to what sounds best for your room and speakers?

Thanks again

 

[Roland68]

Anyone know how the

Question for you. (And I have to leave and will reply later). How do I properly integrate room correction in my system if I buy the Advance Paris amp? If my Advance Paris is the last thing connected to my speakers, wouldn't any room correction done at the source be colored by the characteristics of the amp? Is there something I need to plug the Amp into before hitting the speakers? I understand how the MEN220 would work with separates. However, I'm still confused on how you get room correction with an integrated amplifier that doesn't have it built in. Does the room correction still just use the integrated amp as sort of a bypass to the speakers, and adjust the sonic characteristics of the "source" according to what sounds best for your room and speakers?

Thanks again

To break it down very simply, it doesn't matter which amplifier you use, provided the power is sufficient even with DSP.
A test file is played, which is recorded at the end, i.e. after the amplifier and loudspeaker. This recording is compared with the original, evaluated and a filter/mask is designed that ensures that the test file and playback no longer differ (ideally).
Of course, this only works within a certain framework that the DSP can map and within the technical specifications of the amplifier, loudspeaker, etc.

Purely fictitious as an example!!! if a device can technically only play down to 30 Hz and up to a maximum of 17 kHz, then these technical limits cannot be shifted with a DSP.

 

[krabapple]

For me there would be a very simple but very serious reason not to buy it.
I don't want to have anything from BOSE at home

That's a silly old prejudice.

 

[Roland68]

That's a silly old prejudice.

No, you're wrong, I'm not one of those people who form opinions lightly.
This is my opinion based on decades of experience. My former boss, my current boss and a good friend have been Bose fans for over 25 years and I've had to listen to Bose speakers, headphones, soundbars, radios, etc. countless times.
I just don't like it and in the worst case it gives me a headache.
The three of them have tried to trick me several times so that I don't see what's playing, but it's always been noticed.
The only thing I've liked so far was a really expensive Bose car hi-fi system in a big Audi.

I don't care about the name of something like that, just like the price. If I don't like the sound, it doesn't matter.