"Premium" USB & Ethernet cables?

[SoundsGood2Me]

G'Day Folks! Long time lingerer, I rarely post, but I'd love an opinion. I've subscribed to Stereophile my whole life and just got April. While the written reviews tend to be an advertisement for the product, John Atkinsons' measurements are what drew me to this mag and quite possibly got me into RF engineering.

On page 150 WireWorld has an ad for cables. They claim:

"...Platinum Starlight 8 Ethernet recreates the most transparent, resolving, detailed, natural and immersive performance..."

My question:

If a digital system, with error correction, can can sound better thru one type of cable, does that cable change bits? Because that's the only way it could change how the music sounds, right? They also claim a USB cable, for the low low price of ONLY $499, is better than others. Can someone please tell me if that's the way digital works? Thanks for your time.

 

[DWPress]

Nope. As long as the wire is of the correct gauge for its intended use - wire is wire.

There's at least a few reviews on various ICs here on ASR along with a "audiophile" network switch I believe. All the tests show the same results.

 

[napfkuchen]

Top-tier audiophool marketing bs...

 

[staticV3]

A passive cable cannot change bits, and therefore cannot change the sound.

It's funny.
If a brand tried to sell a passive HDMI cable that improves saturation and bokeh, then everyone would be laughing at them.

But change video to audio and suddenly, audiophiles lose their common sense and start believing in magic.

 

[Ordin Aryguy]

Error correction guarantees that the data that enters the cable is correctly received and interpreted by the distal end electronics. Else it enters a loop and resends the corrupt data until it is received properly.

This is the same regardless if the cable costs $4.00 or $400.00.

…. But you’re an electronics engineer and any EE that‘s past his/her 200 level classes knows this. Right?

 

[DVDdoug]

The sad thing is that Stereophile is one of the few publications/organizations that probably has the budget & staff to routinely do blind listening tests with a panel of expert listeners.

I'd give them SOME credibility if they'd do the listening tests "blind" and write-up that part without knowing the manufacturer or price, and before testing.

But that would require a spine, humility, and honesty...

 

[sam_adams]

Can someone please tell me if that's the way digital works?

Let's see what "Morbo, the News Monster" says, shall we?

Well, I'm satisfied.

 

[312elements]

The sad thing is that Stereophile is one of the few publications/organizations that probably has the budget & staff to routinely do blind listening tests with a panel of expert listeners.

I'd give them SOME credibility if they'd do the listening tests "blind" and write-up that part without knowing the manufacturer or price, and before testing.

But that would require a spine, humility, and honesty...

And if they did what you’re suggesting they’d no longer have the budget to maintain the magazine.

 

[Punter]

Fortunately for the manufacturers (or merely resellers) of these magic cables, the average punter has little to no understanding of the technology they use.

Computer networking, while not a black art, is nonetheless a total mystery to the unwashed public. If you start to explain it to someone with no prior knowledge, first they will not be able to comprehend the speed with which digital data is processed by the devices it flows through. With the concept of all these bits and packets zinging around being almost incomprehensible to most people, its easy to convince them that such a system is somehow fragile and potentially prone to error. Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact that you are reading this text means that all the digital information that constitutes it has been transmitted over thousands of kilometers of data cable strung around the globe globe and has arrived pristine and readable on your screen. All of this has been achieved using standardised data cable costing less than fifty cents per metre (probably much less). The robust mechanisms of the Ethernet standard have also ensured that the digital traffic that forms these letters has been passed from one device to the next without significant errors and any that have been detected have been corrected. Quad erat demonstratum.

In the case of USB audio, unlike other transfer types, it uses isochronous transfers that have no hardware-controlled handshaking or error-checking, so errors may occur occasionally. However, the possibility of errors over a 1-3 metre length of cable are minimal and even if they did happen it would be no more than a few missing packets which the DAC could easily cope with without any audible artefact presenting itself to the listener. Once again however, all of this data handling and the software/hardware components are a complete mystery to most people and subsequently, a well written slab of pseudo-technical advertising copy is enough to convince the uneducated that there is benefit in an overpriced cable.

The HiFi cable vendors have simply adapted the bullshit they have been promoting in the analog realm into the digital realm and the consumers reward them by purchasing their pointless products.

 

[Anton D]

The sad thing is that Stereophile is one of the few publications/organizations that probably has the budget & staff to routinely do blind listening tests with a panel of expert listeners.

I'd give them SOME credibility if they'd do the listening tests "blind" and write-up that part without knowing the manufacturer or price, and before testing.

But that would require a spine, humility, and honesty...

Stereophile has been asked about this before.

The main gist of their answer was that it would be "work" and not fun.

Kal can answer this better, he likely recalls when and where that position was printed. (It must be a decade or more ago.)

 

[Cbdb2]

A passive cable cannot change bits, and therefore cannot change the sound.

It's funny.
If a brand tried to sell a passive HDMI cable that improves saturation and bokeh, then everyone would be laughing at them.

But change video to audio and suddenly, audiophiles lose their common sense and start believing in magic.

And HDMI is orders of magnitude more data.

 

[Cbdb2]

The sad thing is that Stereophile is one of the few publications/organizations that probably has the budget & staff to routinely do blind listening tests with a panel of expert listeners.

I'd give them SOME credibility if they'd do the listening tests "blind" and write-up that part without knowing the manufacturer or price, and before testing.

But that would require a spine, humility, and honesty...

And they would have to admit they can't hear 99% of the things they claim.

 

[GXAlan]

To be fair, wireworld USB had measured improvements!

Review and Measurements of Wireworld Starlight 7 USB Cable

This is a review and detailed measurements of Wireworld Starlight 7 flat USB cable. It is on kind loan from a member. The cost is USD $100 including Prime shipping for the 1 meter/40 inch length I am testing. For this review, I compared it to my current favorite, the 6 foot/1.5m version of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It’s just that the improvement was not audible.

It might be good to use a Wireworld USB cable if you were focused on testing gear.

Edit: But for Ethernet, it’s unlikely to matter if you are using short runs and better than spec. You can run 10GbE of Cat5e for residential distances.

 

[Cbdb2]

Fortunately for the manufacturers (or merely resellers) of these magic cables, the average punter has little to no understanding of the technology they use.

Computer networking, while not a black art, is nonetheless a total mystery to the unwashed public. If you start to explain it to someone with no prior knowledge, first they will not be able to comprehend the speed with which digital data is processed by the devices it flows through. With the concept of all these bits and packets zinging around being almost incomprehensible to most people, its easy to convince them that such a system is somehow fragile and potentially prone to error. Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact that you are reading this text means that all the digital information that constitutes it has been transmitted over thousands of kilometers of data cable strung around the globe globe and has arrived pristine and readable on your screen. All of this has been achieved using standardised data cable costing less than fifty cents per metre (probably much less). The robust mechanisms of the Ethernet standard have also ensured that the digital traffic that forms these letters has been passed from one device to the next without significant errors and any that have been detected have been corrected. Quad erat demonstratum.

In the case of USB audio, unlike other transfer types, it uses isochronous transfers that have no hardware-controlled handshaking or error-checking, so errors may occur occasionally. However, the possibility of errors over a 1-3 metre length of cable are minimal and even if they did happen it would be no more than a few missing packets which the DAC could easily cope with without any audible artefact presenting itself to the listener. Once again however, all of this data handling and the software/hardware components are a complete mystery to most people and subsequently, a well written slab of pseudo-technical advertising copy is enough to convince the uneducated that there is benefit in an overpriced cable.

The HiFi cable vendors have simply adapted the bullshit they have been promoting in the analog realm into the digital realm and the consumers reward them by purchasing their pointless products.

Cheap Cat-5 cable can deliver 1Gbit over 300 feet. But audiophools believe it can't deliver digital audio 3 feet.

 

[Audiofire]

Hi-fi Ethernet cable - does it help with network streamer?

Looks very high quality but also expensive.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Do USB Audio Cables Make A Difference?

Aftermarket USB cables seem to be all the rage with people paying as much as $15,000 for a short run of it!!! Lots of subjective performance reports are out there but none back with any objective measurements that demonstrates any difference. On the other side of the fence many believe there...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Is Digital Audio Transmission Analog? [video]

A new argument has developed that transmission of digital audio is really analog. And for this reason, everything digital can be subject to audible difference from digital audio cables to digital output of streamers. This was emphasizes in a video by Darko Audio saying this explains his...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[SoundsGood2Me]

Fortunately for the manufacturers (or merely resellers) of these magic cables, the average punter has little to no understanding of the technology they use.

Computer networking, while not a black art, is nonetheless a total mystery to the unwashed public. If you start to explain it to someone with no prior knowledge, first they will not be able to comprehend the speed with which digital data is processed by the devices it flows through. With the concept of all these bits and packets zinging around being almost incomprehensible to most people, its easy to convince them that such a system is somehow fragile and potentially prone to error. Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact that you are reading this text means that all the digital information that constitutes it has been transmitted over thousands of kilometers of data cable strung around the globe globe and has arrived pristine and readable on your screen. All of this has been achieved using standardised data cable costing less than fifty cents per metre (probably much less). The robust mechanisms of the Ethernet standard have also ensured that the digital traffic that forms these letters has been passed from one device to the next without significant errors and any that have been detected have been corrected. Quad erat demonstratum.

In the case of USB audio, unlike other transfer types, it uses isochronous transfers that have no hardware-controlled handshaking or error-checking, so errors may occur occasionally. However, the possibility of errors over a 1-3 metre length of cable are minimal and even if they did happen it would be no more than a few missing packets which the DAC could easily cope with without any audible artefact presenting itself to the listener. Once again however, all of this data handling and the software/hardware components are a complete mystery to most people and subsequently, a well written slab of pseudo-technical advertising copy is enough to convince the uneducated that there is benefit in an overpriced cable.

The HiFi cable vendors have simply adapted the bullshit they have been promoting in the analog realm into the digital realm and the consumers reward them by purchasing their pointless products.

G'Day Punter -
YOURS IS THE BEST ARGUMENT I'VE HEARD.
Thank you for all your effort.

 

[JSmith]

WireWorld

... is one of the most overpriced cable companies ever. They are made by unicorns in the starlight of another dimension.


JSmith

 

[EERecordist]

Fortunately for the manufacturers (or merely resellers) of these magic cables, the average punter has little to no understanding of the technology they use.

Computer networking, while not a black art, is nonetheless a total mystery to the unwashed public. If you start to explain it to someone with no prior knowledge, first they will not be able to comprehend the speed with which digital data is processed by the devices it flows through. With the concept of all these bits and packets zinging around being almost incomprehensible to most people, its easy to convince them that such a system is somehow fragile and potentially prone to error. Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact that you are reading this text means that all the digital information that constitutes it has been transmitted over thousands of kilometers of data cable strung around the globe globe and has arrived pristine and readable on your screen. All of this has been achieved using standardised data cable costing less than fifty cents per metre (probably much less). The robust mechanisms of the Ethernet standard have also ensured that the digital traffic that forms these letters has been passed from one device to the next without significant errors and any that have been detected have been corrected. Quad erat demonstrandum.

In the case of USB audio, unlike other transfer types, it uses isochronous transfers that have no hardware-controlled handshaking or error-checking, so errors may occur occasionally. However, the possibility of errors over a 1-3 metre length of cable are minimal and even if they did happen it would be no more than a few missing packets which the DAC could easily cope with without any audible artefact presenting itself to the listener. Once again however, all of this data handling and the software/hardware components are a complete mystery to most people and subsequently, a well written slab of pseudo-technical advertising copy is enough to convince the uneducated that there is benefit in an overpriced cable.

The HiFi cable vendors have simply adapted the bullshit they have been promoting in the analog realm into the digital realm and the consumers reward them by purchasing their pointless products.

I would second this. Digital signals on wires (or in fiber) are not perfect square waves. One way to measure digital transmitters <> cable <> digital receiver is the eye diagram. https://www.edn.com/eye-diagram-basics-reading-and-applying-eye-diagrams/.

A cable with high resistance, because of narrow gauge wire, tinsel conductors, or overly long will lower the "1" voltage, possibly the "0" voltage and the voltage difference between the "1" and zero. A lot of capacitance or inductance will make the slope between "0" and "1" more gradual. On a 3.3 volt system, the boundary between detecting a "1" or "0" may be set at 2 Volts. Up to a certain point of severe voltage loss or rise/fall time the detector in the receiver will get back the signal perfectly.

The world is generally divided between wire makers - copper, silver, plastic in and wire out, connector makers - copper, silver, plastic, and cable makers wire, connectors in and a finished cable out. A boutique audio cable maker buys their wire and connectors. It is very easy to make your own wired Ethernet cables.

As long as you buy your cables specified for the generations of wired Ethernet - CAT3...8 and USB version and you stay within the length specification for each. And you buy from a reputable vendor, you will be fine.

The low end vendors may try to cheat, or not do outgoing quality control. I'd also be worried about the ultra high end vendors not having the test equipment needed.

 

[kemmler3D]

Can someone please tell me if that's the way digital works?

I think you knew the answer and wanted to give the benefit of the doubt, but no, it's not.

They figured all of this out decades ago, which is why the internet works, and files don't get more and more corrupt the more times you email them.

 

[Palladium]

I think you knew the answer and wanted to give the benefit of the doubt, but no, it's not.

They figured all of this out decades ago, which is why the internet works, and files don't get more and more corrupt the more times you email them.

How weird all these banks, HPCs, server farms and scientific research institutions who are paranoid about data integrity don't get worried about cables, but a when USB cable goes to audiophiles they can't even pass the ancient 1.1 spec.