Hi-fi Ethernet cable - does it help with network streamer?

[somy]

Looks very high quality but also expensive.

 

[ChrisCables]

Save your pennies.

 

[Snoopy]

Nope.

 

[computer-audiophile]

There is no such thing as an HiFi Ethernet cable.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Sound wise, not a chance in my "bits is bits" opinion.

It does mention some features to reduce strain on the network jack which I struggle to understand.

I don't see any reason to waste money on this but measurements or a blind test would be required to be 100% sure.

 

[Nutul]

Sound wise, not a chance in my "bits is bits" opinion.

It does mention some features to reduce strain on the network jack which I struggle to understand.

I don't see any reason to waste money on this but measurements or a blind test would be required to be 100% sure.

1. mechanical construction has nothing to do with audio benefits when it's down to an RJ45 connector. Then, that cable is not subjected to movements (like most of network cables... you don't play around with them.
2, blind tests?!?!? for a data cable?!?!? TCP protocol has redundancy, as it transfers packets: either the received data is good, or it isn't.

 

[ChrisCables]

Has anyone here conducted tests/measurements with regard to data packet-losses due to network queuing/congestion or external influences and if it has a quantifiable effect on QoE?

I'd be particularly interested to learn if cable shielding or geometry has a beneficial influence on whatever the acceptable loss threshold is. I understand anything from 5-10% losses are considered unacceptable for streaming applications.

 

[wwenze]

I'd be particularly interested to learn if cable shielding or geometry has a beneficial influence on whatever the acceptable loss threshold is. I understand anything from 5-10% losses are considered unacceptable for streaming applications.

You can start with wifi, there are lots of apps that tell you the physical connection's signal strength, SNR and stuff. Then you can see how garbage a physical connection can get before packets get dropped.

 

[somebodyelse]

There was a series of articles covering a public blind test, technical measurements of the cables involved and finally a teardown to see the construction. Short version: in controlled listening tests nobody could tell the difference between the audiophile cable and a cheap 'CAT6' patch lead that didn't even pass CAT5e tests. Start here: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...ile-ethernet-cables-to-the-test-in-las-vegas/

Your OS will keep count of dropped packets, errors and overruns. If you check you'll probably see zeros for wired interfaces, even after GBs of data transfer over cheap cables.

 

[Frank2]

If regular ethernet cables would have any trouble transferring bits and bytes, we would have much bigger problems than sound quality issues: the world as we know it would stop functioning. Ethernet does not care what these bits and bytes (which are just numbers) represent. So no, an audiophile ethernet cable does not make any sense at all.

 

[Frank2]

I understand anything from 5-10% losses are considered unacceptable for streaming applications.

These data packets are not lost, but they do require resending. Data tranferred over ethernet (via the TCP protocol) is never lost, otherwise the world would be in big trouble. This means your data will still arrive bit perfect but with some latency due to the additional time spent in resending it. For applications where latency is critical, like studios where signals from multiple musicians have to arrive at the same time, or separate video and audio streams that have to stay synchronized, this may be a problem. But for streaming music from a single source you simply build in enough buffer capacity and latency becomes a non-issue. If the latency becomes so big that your buffer runs empty, you'll hear drop-outs so that will be apparent immediately.

 

[TonyJZX]

there are people here who are experts in the field

to these people, discussions about audiophile network cables and switches will be met with rancour

it comes down to the notion of data integrity

data is data is music

on my pc i use it for music and i may also access my bank details and perform transactions online

if i cannot trust it for music then why would i trust it for financial data?

one room i am using a wireless bridge so i may have music (or financial data!) flying over wifi from my nas to a pc to a dac

and so how am i getting "better data" with a 500 rmb or usd$67 piece of ethernet cable?

or a $500 'audiophile switch'?

even worse is this is from a reputable brand... ie. Matrix is well regarded here

and then there's this kind of scam

Curious Cables

Curious Cables have been designed with one thing in mind - to improve the sound quality of your audio system.

curiouscables.com

I dont think I've used $440 worth of copper in my entire professional career!

be aware ethernet is made up of 8 lines... EIGHT! the total copper weight is probably less than 12awg?

so if the Chinese can knock out 1m ethernet cables for 50c you're going to have a hard time justifying $67... or $440!

 

[audio_tony]

It does mention some features to reduce strain on the network jack which I struggle to understand.

That's because it's an unnecessarily bulky, heavy cable. As a result it requires strain relief.

 

[Palladium]

there are people here who are experts in the field

to these people, discussions about audiophile network cables and switches will be met with rancour

it comes down to the notion of data integrity

data is data is music

on my pc i use it for music and i may also access my bank details and perform transactions online

if i cannot trust it for music then why would i trust it for financial data?

one room i am using a wireless bridge so i may have music (or financial data!) flying over wifi from my nas to a pc to a dac

and so how am i getting "better data" with a 500 rmb or usd$67 piece of ethernet cable?

or a $500 'audiophile switch'?

even worse is this is from a reputable brand... ie. Matrix is well regarded here

and then there's this kind of scam

Curious Cables

Curious Cables have been designed with one thing in mind - to improve the sound quality of your audio system.

curiouscables.com

I dont think I've used $440 worth of copper in my entire professional career!

be aware ethernet is made up of 8 lines... EIGHT! the total copper weight is probably less than 12awg?

so if the Chinese can knock out 1m ethernet cables for 50c you're going to have a hard time justifying $67... or $440!

There are also some >100GB/s of my neighbors' data that is getting in and filtered out from my FTTH optical modem right now and it still works flawlessly for 10+ years.

 

[DJNX]

Has anyone here conducted tests/measurements with regard to data packet-losses due to network queuing/congestion or external influences and if it has a quantifiable effect on QoE?

I'd be particularly interested to learn if cable shielding or geometry has a beneficial influence on whatever the acceptable loss threshold is. I understand anything from 5-10% losses are considered unacceptable for streaming applications.

Loses can happen when transmitting over the UDP protocol, when real time video and audio is required (such as videoconferencing, like zoom).
Streaming services and music servers use the TCP protocol, that unlike UDP, it allows retransmission of data and thorough error checking, so there is no information loss. (On top of the data buffering streaming services and music servers employ).

As for the type of shielding in cables, it only matters in structured cabling scenarios, where you have lots of cables bundled together. In a home scenario, pretty much any ethernet cable is fine. And considering brands like Ugreen sell F/FTP Cat7 cables for cheap, it is a non-issue.

In other words, unless you have a broken Ethernet cable (or a loop in the topology), packet loss is inconsequential for audio.

 

[Apesbrain]

"Hi-fi" ethernet cables are available at Blue Jeans Cable starting under $10:

Data Cables at Blue Jeans Cable

Available in any length/color you need and individually tested with printed report. Listening to them now and they "sound" great.

P.S. Kind of disappointing to see Matrix Audio pitching this woo. Their streamer/DACs are generally well regarded.

 

[Greenman]

These cables aren’t really trying to protect against lost data, or at least that’s not why people buy them. They are trying to reduce noise on the line which might contaminate the destination streamer/Dac, In theory this could then impact the analogue audio section. Similarly people might use internet fibre converters to eliminate all potential electrical noise. If you subscribe to this site then likely this is not a real issue to you, if you subscribe to some other sites then your streamer is near unusable without such network isolation.

 

[kevin1969]

There's nothing special about digital audio signals going over Ethernet.

In fact, it's literally just a file that's being downloaded by your streamer and then being converted into analog or another digital format if you're using an external DAC

 

[ChrisCables]

Ethernet cable makes for excellent signal wire in point to point wiring inside analog amplifiers. Example is wiring from an RCA connector to a volume pot. It's great to take an old piece, strip it down and have a twisted pair with excellent noise rejection.

In a digital application, as in connecting two pieces of gear, like other's have said here, don't waste your money.

Up-cycling FTW!
I'm all for it. I have a bin full of allsorts of old cable just waiting to be up-cycled to something useful.
Hoping for a dip in my normal build-queue to be able to get started with something but the likelihood of that is fading week by week.
A luxury problem perhaps.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

View attachment 318694
Looks very high quality but also expensive.

I've been involved in extremely large and complex media IP/Ethernet networks handling terabits.

This is just unnecessary. Buy a quality normal cable.