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Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR Review

Rate this AVR:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 165 64.7%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 44 17.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 40 15.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 6 2.4%

  • Total voters
    255
I have tried the dirac license. I was referring to the power loss that was evaluated here by Amir how after awhile it goes into like power saving mode or timer and makes like a click sound that someone mentioned happening to their unit. Mine has not done so but I am questioning if I should return it since this is an issue although mine sounds great.
If there's no issue, I don't see why you would return it. Just make sure to test it out at your normal listening volume and not to "baby" it or it might hide limitations!

Amir's observation was for low impedance speakers and you may not own any!
 
If there's no issue, I don't see why you would return it. Just make sure to test it out at your normal listening volume and not to "baby" it or it might hide limitations!

Amir's observation was for low impedance speakers and you may not own any!
Yes my speakers are 8 ohm, sensitivity 98.
Maybe in my case the lx505 isn't an issue since my speakers are not power hungry.
 
Yes my speakers are 8 ohm, sensitivity 98.
Maybe in my case the lx505 isn't an issue since my speakers are not power hungry.
stop worrying over this failure of a review, mate..

If you want to "force" that "click" sound, then play music (e.g. through Chromecast) at a LOW volume (something like -30 to -40) for half an hour.
The Receiver will realise that it's burning insane amounts of electricity to keep the PSU in the high-power state and SWITCH (relay clicking) to the low-power rail. (someone explained it a few pages back that these receivers have two separate voltage thingies to reduce power consumption)

As soon as you turn the power UP again, the relays will switch back to the higher voltage and the receiver..

This has nothing to do with bad design or a faulty device, it's merely a way to prevent excessive power consumption for no reason.


If you watch movies at -10 or -15, the receiver will probably draw more than enough power so that it doesn't warrant switching the PSU to the lower voltage.


The test that Amir conducted is devoid of ANY basis in ANY real-life scenario, testing the device with a load well beyond its rated power output and for a ridiculously long time that never EVER happens under ANY circumstances in ANY real-life application. (not if you watch Oppenheimer at 0dB setting..)

He also loves to turn the volume up to positive levels, which is hilarious considering THX specialists recommend -6 dB for medium-sized home theatres to achieve REFERENCE level SPL. (because of room-gain)
 
The test that Amir conducted is devoid of ANY basis in ANY real-life scenario, testing the device with a load well beyond its rated power output and for a ridiculously long time that never EVER happens under ANY circumstances in ANY real-life application. (not if you watch Oppenheimer at 0dB setting..)
I wouldn't call 35 seconds a "ridiculously long time". The fact that it requires a power cycle to get out of "limp mode" and other AVR makers don't do this should give anyone pause!

Amir has been fairly consistent in his testing of all products so take this review for what it is: information!
 
I wouldn't call 35 seconds a "ridiculously long time". The fact that it requires a power cycle to get out of "limp mode" and other AVR makers don't do this should give anyone pause!

Amir has been fairly consistent in his testing of all products so take this review for what it is: information!
So if I listen say -30, -40 for a bit it will eventually power cycle? I haven't seen that happen yet when I've had content on at those levels.
 
So if I listen say -30, -40 for a bit it will eventually power cycle? I haven't seen that happen yet when I've had content on at those levels.

No. It will power cycle if you hook it up to a load resistor and draw 40 watts continuously for 35 seconds. There are almost no speakers this unit would reasonably hooked to that will ever draw this sort of power for 35 seconds straight. The whole issue is largely fake. The Denon receivers used to do the same thing. No one ever complained except people who hooked them up to 4 ohm load resistors. People do not hook these to kilobuck planar ribbon speakers or a bank of PA speakers that might draw that sort of power on a continuous basis. With your speakers, you will never, ever have any issue at all unless they short out internally. In which case, well, you have bigger problems.
 
So if I listen say -30, -40 for a bit it will eventually power cycle? I haven't seen that happen yet when I've had content on at those levels.
Again, your lack of issue makes you an ideal owner for this unit (efficient 8 ohm speakers)!
 
No. It will power cycle if you hook it up to a load resistor and draw 40 watts continuously for 35 seconds. There are almost no speakers this unit would reasonably hooked to that will ever draw this sort of power for 35 seconds straight. The whole issue is largely fake. The Denon receivers used to do the same thing. No one ever complained except people who hooked them up to 4 ohm load resistors. People do not hook these to kilobuck planar ribbon speakers or a bank of PA speakers that might draw that sort of power on a continuous basis. With your speakers, you will never, ever have any issue at all unless they short out internally. In which case, well, you have bigger problems.
40W is not a lot for 4 ohm resistance. Are you thinking 40W across 8 ohms?

Don't forget that the 40W was only for 2 channels. You'll get loss of quality across a 5.1 or 7.1 system and anecdotally that is what people are reporting for low impedance systems!
 
40W is not a lot for 4 ohm resistance. Are you thinking 40W across 8 ohms?

Don't forget that the 40W was only for 2 channels. You'll get loss of quality across a 5.1 or 7.1 system and anecdotally that is what people are reporting for low impedance systems!

Anecdotally, virtually no one has reported a activation of the protection circuit except people who shorted speaker cables together. I ran through the math in another thread. 40W is an insane amount of power to draw for 35 seconds straight on any reasonable pair of speakers in a home environment. The dynamic range of music makes this clear. "Reference" levels are well under a 20W continuous average draw. Cinema content also generally has much more dynamic range than most music, reducing average levels, and making the likelihood of a sustained high power draw even lower.

Let's pick something every audiophile knows well as an example: Telarc's 1812 Overture. This piece has 18dB from average to peak. I've played this and fluttered the clip lights with (guessing) over 500W peaks. That's loud and would blow the woofers on most speakers and audibly clip most amplifiers. Average draw? About 8W. You're all good.
 
Anecdotally, virtually no one has reported a activation of the protection circuit except people who shorted speaker cables together.
Like Amir, I refuse to call this the traditional "protection" shutoff as the AVR doesn't turn itself off during challenging low impedance loads-it simply plays at reduced quality!
In his review of the 7100, he called this "limp mode" and it's essentially what it is, like the "limp mode" of certain cars when things go bad (you can operate but at much reduced capacity)!

"The problem as I have noted in previous reviews of this shared platform between Onkyo/Pioneer is this severe power limiting mode. I have to think it is there to pass UL regulatory tests and hence the reason it doesn't even tell you that it has gone into this "limp" mode. Naturally there is no mention of it and even searching online won't clue you in this problem."
 
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Yes my speakers are 8 ohm, sensitivity 98.
Maybe in my case the lx505 isn't an issue since my speakers are not power hungry.
98dB? What speaker are these? That's really high sensitivity.

Regardless of what some other posters may say, the power limiting mode on these units is bad engineering and bad practice. However, that doesn't mean you should return it if you aren't having any issues.

Just be sure to test it thoroughly by playing your content at the loudest reasonable volume you might ever want to use for a while before the return period is over.
 
98dB? What speaker are these? That's really high sensitivity.

Regardless of what some other posters may say, the power limiting mode on these units is bad engineering and bad practice. However, that doesn't mean you should return it if you aren't having any issues.

Just be sure to test it thoroughly by playing your content at the loudest reasonable volume you might ever want to use for a while before the return period is over.
The speakers are PSA 210T and 210C.
 
The speakers are PSA 210T and 210C.
I would be shocked if your average is even a single watt on those. 10W average would be really loud. Reasonable rock concert levels. The more likely issue is noise or hiss. If there is none, you're set.
 
On a side note, when I watch OTA antenna I get a random crackle sound here and there with the center channel. The antenna is not close to the center channel and I did not have this problem with other receivers. When I watch movies streamed there is no issues with the center. Any thoughts?
 
Why we chase max SINAD

Over the years, I was able to amass a ton of audiophile audio equipment not because I had "golden ears" but because it was fairly inexpensive w/an employee discount. As you can imagine, I've been quite spoiled w/good hardware that I won't bother listing (they're in my prior posts). Last summer, I was in the market for a new receiver as my Pioneer LX701 was having massive HDMI issues w/the signal cutting in and out. Here is the list of candidates available to me at the time and their DAC specs according to literature and testing:

Pioneer Elite SC-LX701 (old receiver)
Primary DAC: ES9016S, DNR=124, THD+N=-110
Bench test: ???

Onkyo RZ50/Pioneer 505
Primary DAC: PCM1690, DNR=113, THD+N=-94
Bench test: ~97

Denon 4800
Primary DAC: PCM5102A, DNR=112, THD+N=-93
Bench test: ~95

Denon 3800 (current AVR)
Primary DAC: PCM5102A, DNR=112, THD+N=-93
Bench test: ~86!

Although I'm not able to find numbers for how the LX701 measured, even if we take the same delta drop as the 3800, I essentially went from an AVR that was theoretically 103 to 86! The difference in quality is audible despite a 17dB difference! I went w/the low cost leader and paying the price!

Ultimately, the reason why we chase high SINAD is because it gives the manufacturer that much more wiggle room to fall from the stated spec!
I thought the 3800 had an audible differnce as well.
Audible. Obviously memory plays a part but the older receiver felt like it eeked out more detail and dynamic range and made movie watching more immersive.
I am still using my 4500. I can hear distortion in the 3800 at 88 db. I felt like despite the 4 subs and dblc ready it was a downgrade from the 4500.
 
From my experience with its close cousins of the Onkyo / Integra persuasion, the difference isn't the sheer power (the 7's had heaps of power) but the massive power supply and the resulting current... which allowed them to handle low impedance speakers without concern... (which is why I am thinking my next step is likely to be in the RZ70-LX805-DRX8.4 group)
This makes sense.
 
I am not aware of the 'Poor' vote being broken out in any way. I suspect most of the 'Poor' votes are because of how the Pioneer Elite VSX-LX505 measured for output power.
I didn't like the global settings for the crossovers. It seemed like a weird decision. I had the Integra version of the 505. I don't think Amir tests on this unit made sense becaue there is no complaint about throttle or baby monitor in real life
 
I didn't like the global settings for the crossovers. It seemed like a weird decision. I had the Integra version of the 505. I don't think Amir tests on this unit made sense becaue there is no complaint about throttle or baby monitor in real life
exactly!

Nobody has EVER reported in real life settings what Amir has put the entire focus of his review on.. it's just a terribly designed test, nothing else.

What we CAN confirm is that the receiver will switch to a lower voltage rail in the PSU when the power draw is incredibly low. (As has been shown in that other thread about the 305 with the power measurement device hooked up)


I have not EVER found a review that found this issue that Amir is reporting.. and not a single real human being using the Receiver within rated specs and in a normal home theater environment has EVER reported any issues.

This is just silly brand bashing!
 
exactly!

Nobody has EVER reported in real life settings what Amir has put the entire focus of his review on.. it's just a terribly designed test, nothing else.

What we CAN confirm is that the receiver will switch to a lower voltage rail in the PSU when the power draw is incredibly low. (As has been shown in that other thread about the 305 with the power measurement device hooked up)


I have not EVER found a review that found this issue that Amir is reporting.. and not a single real human being using the Receiver within rated specs and in a normal home theater environment has EVER reported any issues.

This is just silly brand bashing!
It's not a terribly designed test, it is a pretty standard bench test - it just identified something unexpected.

And over a number of years, mass market AVR's from Onkyo / Integra / Pioneer have all exhibited this behaviour... which many of us (me included ) consider a design flaw.

However I consider it something minor - with little impact except on rare edge cases - AmirM consider it more seriously.
 
It's not a terribly designed test, it is a pretty standard bench test - it just identified something unexpected.

And over a number of years, mass market AVR's from Onkyo / Integra / Pioneer have all exhibited this behaviour... which many of us (me included ) consider a design flaw.

However I consider it something minor - with little impact except on rare edge cases - AmirM consider it more seriously.

A design flaw?
It's quite obviously an intentional design, to not generate unnecessary heat, to not waste power, but to still provide Class A amplification at higher loads.

IMHO, it's quite an elegant design.


But I also think we have to thank Amir for this "devastating review", because the LX-505 was available for sale at 600-800 USD brand new everywhere one looked. (I bought mine in Switzerland for 400 USD (equiv.) less than the Denon 3800H was going for.. and it's been working flawlessly for all these months. )
By now, the prices have been readjusted for a while, so the Denon is still down to 1k bucks while the Pioneer is higher again (after all, you get quite a bit more power for the money, including the Dirac license worth several hundred bucks alone)
 
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