Pioneer VSX-LX505 AVR Review

[himey]

No we can't

 

[himey]

If you are in a situation where the 10% of power siphoned off into the high frequency driving amp is the problem - you just need a higher power amp

The Kappa's aren't going to be 10% like most speakers that are two-way. My Kappa's are four-way. One amp channel driving a single 12 inch driver, the other channel driving a 6 1/2 inch mid, a dome mid, and an Emit-r tweeter. It is easy to simply say buy another amp with twice the power, but the two Conrad-Johnson amps sound great, and sound better than any single amp I already own. YMMV.

 

[Kachda]

Where are your two height/top speakers located? My Yamaha sums all the height channels, so it doesn't leave options for placement, only directly above. I am curious if all receives do this? I found this out by using test tones.

They are placed a couple of feet above the mains. I rent so I can’t mount them to the ceiling. Honestly though, the height speakers are the most useless of the bunch. I could take them out and probably not notice a difference

 

[himey]

They are placed a couple of feet above the mains. I rent so I can’t mount them to the ceiling. Honestly though, the height speakers are the most useless of the bunch. I could take them out and probably not notice a difference

Depends on the mix. In the future more music/movies will utilize them to the fullest. They also come in handy for 5.1 sports and the Dolby surround upmixer. Definitely adds to the experience.

 

[MbphotoX]

They are placed a couple of feet above the mains. I rent so I can’t mount them to the ceiling. Honestly though, the height speakers are the most useless of the bunch. I could take them out and probably not notice a difference

you'd probably want them as top speakers on the ceiling above your seats, if you really want the "atmos" experience.

 

[testp]

They are placed a couple of feet above the mains. I rent so I can’t mount them to the ceiling. Honestly though, the height speakers are the most useless of the bunch. I could take them out and probably not notice a difference

then place them 45-60° up toward the ceiling, if they are not giving the effect you expect, that way it should be ~100% reflected sound arriving to you from above.

 

[j4ys0n]

Ok here's a fun one for y'all.

I think I'm going to get this receiver. I understand it's not the best and there are other options, but hear me out. I'm currently running the VSX-LX504 and I'd really just like a drop-in replacement that gives me HDMI 2.1 and DIRAC. I just got a new TV & I'm about to purchase some Revel in-wall speakers to go with it (pretty excited about the W553L speakers). I also have 4 other Pioneer receivers and do often use the Flare connect feature to play music everywhere. I haven't found another solution for a feature like this, other than Sonos, but I don't really want to go that route for a number of reasons. So, I'm kind of locked in to Pioneer for now, and I'm ok with it.

Reading the post and some of the replies, though, I can confirm some of the annoying issues. Sometimes (not sure what triggers it), some features just don't work right and I have to either power cycle or unplug the receiver for a few seconds. I haven't had to do that in a while though - maybe the latest firmware made it better - who knows.

I did consider getting a miniDSP unit to essentially add DIRAC, but that doesn't give me HDMI 2.1 and pricing is similar to a new receiver itself, depending on which miniDSP. So that doesn't make sense in my opinion. I'm sure it'd be a better audio experience but I have to cap the $ and time at some point

And here's the question - knowing that the receiver limits power after 30 seconds, should I just get a separate multichannel amp in addition to the receiver, and then pass the channels through the pre-outs? I don't think I need a ton of power. I'm looking at the Emotiva BasX A7, Monoprice Monolith M7100X 7x90, OSD MX880, AudioSource AD508. I do somewhat know what I'm doing here, but I haven't ventured this deep into the A/V world yet. The AI overlords told me that Monoprice is probably the best choice, followed closely by the Emotiva (copy/pasted below). Anyone agree or disagree?

Speakers:
2x Revel W553L (Front L/R)
1x Revel W253L (Front Center)
2x Cambridge Audio Minx C46 (Front Atmos L/R)
2x Cambridge Audio Minx C46 (Rear Surround L/R)

The Cambridge Audio in-ceilings will be angled at the main seating area with some nylon fiberglass brackets/adapters that I designed and printed.

Overall Recommendation:​

1. Monoprice Monolith M7100X 7x90: Offers the best balance of power output and build quality, slightly higher power than the Emotiva and well-regarded for its performance. Best value for moderate price.
2. Emotiva BasX A-700: Known for solid build quality and reliable performance, offers great value for the price and is highly regarded in the audio community.
3. OSD MX880: Offers good flexibility and an affordable price, though it has a lower power output and may not have the same reputation as Emotiva or Monoprice.
4. AudioSource AD508: While very affordable, its lower power output and potentially lower build quality make it a less compelling option compared to the others.

 

[ban25]

Ok here's a fun one for y'all.

I think I'm going to get this receiver. I understand it's not the best and there are other options, but hear me out. I'm currently running the VSX-LX504 and I'd really just like a drop-in replacement that gives me HDMI 2.1 and DIRAC. I just got a new TV & I'm about to purchase some Revel in-wall speakers to go with it (pretty excited about the W553L speakers). I also have 4 other Pioneer receivers and do often use the Flare connect feature to play music everywhere. I haven't found another solution for a feature like this, other than Sonos, but I don't really want to go that route for a number of reasons. So, I'm kind of locked in to Pioneer for now, and I'm ok with it.

Reading the post and some of the replies, though, I can confirm some of the annoying issues. Sometimes (not sure what triggers it), some features just don't work right and I have to either power cycle or unplug the receiver for a few seconds. I haven't had to do that in a while though - maybe the latest firmware made it better - who knows.

I did consider getting a miniDSP unit to essentially add DIRAC, but that doesn't give me HDMI 2.1 and pricing is similar to a new receiver itself, depending on which miniDSP. So that doesn't make sense in my opinion. I'm sure it'd be a better audio experience but I have to cap the $ and time at some point

And here's the question - knowing that the receiver limits power after 30 seconds, should I just get a separate multichannel amp in addition to the receiver, and then pass the channels through the pre-outs? I don't think I need a ton of power. I'm looking at the Emotiva BasX A7, Monoprice Monolith M7100X 7x90, OSD MX880, AudioSource AD508. I do somewhat know what I'm doing here, but I haven't ventured this deep into the A/V world yet. The AI overlords told me that Monoprice is probably the best choice, followed closely by the Emotiva (copy/pasted below). Anyone agree or disagree?

Speakers:
2x Revel W553L (Front L/R)
1x Revel W253L (Front Center)
2x Cambridge Audio Minx C46 (Front Atmos L/R)
2x Cambridge Audio Minx C46 (Rear Surround L/R)

The Cambridge Audio in-ceilings will be angled at the main seating area with some nylon fiberglass brackets/adapters that I designed and printed.

Overall Recommendation:​

1. Monoprice Monolith M7100X 7x90: Offers the best balance of power output and build quality, slightly higher power than the Emotiva and well-regarded for its performance. Best value for moderate price.
2. Emotiva BasX A-700: Known for solid build quality and reliable performance, offers great value for the price and is highly regarded in the audio community.
3. OSD MX880: Offers good flexibility and an affordable price, though it has a lower power output and may not have the same reputation as Emotiva or Monoprice.
4. AudioSource AD508: While very affordable, its lower power output and potentially lower build quality make it a less compelling option compared to the others.

Try it without the external amp first. The power throttling exhibited here is essentially the result of a torture test, not real world conditions listening to music or movies. Not saying it can't be triggered in real world conditions, but there isn't much in the way of evidence online to suggest it's at all common.

If you do decide on an external amp, the Monolith would be my choice from the above list.

 

[dlaloum]

Ok here's a fun one for y'all.

I think I'm going to get this receiver. I understand it's not the best and there are other options, but hear me out. I'm currently running the VSX-LX504 and I'd really just like a drop-in replacement that gives me HDMI 2.1 and DIRAC. I just got a new TV & I'm about to purchase some Revel in-wall speakers to go with it (pretty excited about the W553L speakers). I also have 4 other Pioneer receivers and do often use the Flare connect feature to play music everywhere. I haven't found another solution for a feature like this, other than Sonos, but I don't really want to go that route for a number of reasons. So, I'm kind of locked in to Pioneer for now, and I'm ok with it.

Reading the post and some of the replies, though, I can confirm some of the annoying issues. Sometimes (not sure what triggers it), some features just don't work right and I have to either power cycle or unplug the receiver for a few seconds. I haven't had to do that in a while though - maybe the latest firmware made it better - who knows.

I did consider getting a miniDSP unit to essentially add DIRAC, but that doesn't give me HDMI 2.1 and pricing is similar to a new receiver itself, depending on which miniDSP. So that doesn't make sense in my opinion. I'm sure it'd be a better audio experience but I have to cap the $ and time at some point

And here's the question - knowing that the receiver limits power after 30 seconds, should I just get a separate multichannel amp in addition to the receiver, and then pass the channels through the pre-outs? I don't think I need a ton of power. I'm looking at the Emotiva BasX A7, Monoprice Monolith M7100X 7x90, OSD MX880, AudioSource AD508. I do somewhat know what I'm doing here, but I haven't ventured this deep into the A/V world yet. The AI overlords told me that Monoprice is probably the best choice, followed closely by the Emotiva (copy/pasted below). Anyone agree or disagree?

Speakers:
2x Revel W553L (Front L/R)
1x Revel W253L (Front Center)
2x Cambridge Audio Minx C46 (Front Atmos L/R)
2x Cambridge Audio Minx C46 (Rear Surround L/R)

The Cambridge Audio in-ceilings will be angled at the main seating area with some nylon fiberglass brackets/adapters that I designed and printed.

Overall Recommendation:​

1. Monoprice Monolith M7100X 7x90: Offers the best balance of power output and build quality, slightly higher power than the Emotiva and well-regarded for its performance. Best value for moderate price.
2. Emotiva BasX A-700: Known for solid build quality and reliable performance, offers great value for the price and is highly regarded in the audio community.
3. OSD MX880: Offers good flexibility and an affordable price, though it has a lower power output and may not have the same reputation as Emotiva or Monoprice.
4. AudioSource AD508: While very affordable, its lower power output and potentially lower build quality make it a less compelling option compared to the others.

Ok well, those Revel speakers do have a difficult impedance profile, with drops down to 3ohm.... not amplifier buster territory, but difficult nevertheless, and require a high current amp.

Would you encounter the dreaded protection mode with them - no, I don't think so.

In actual use, there have been no reports of the dreaded nanny mode kicking in, even with speakers substantially more difficult to drive than yours (such as my Gallo Ref 3.2, which drops down to 1.6ohm).

Will there be an audible improvement from the use of external amps...
No way of telling until you try it - the 505 and 305 (and NR7100, RZ50, DRX5.4/3.4) all have well nigh identical amp sections, and my personal experience with my Gallo speakers, was that an immediate improvement was heard when running Front L/R through a low impedance, 1 ohm capable, external amp. (even though very little power was used.... 99% of listening keeps things below 4W peak, and 100% is below 16W peak! )

Other observations of note: - The center channel is just as difficult as the L/R in my setup (also 1.6ohm), but it was fine staying connected to the AVR, once the L & R load was removed.
Once you remove the heavy lifting load of L & R, the AVR's internal power supply seems sufficient to keep things clean for all the other channels (Center, Surrounds, Height)... removing the L/R load left it with sufficient reserves.

Amps I used to try external are Crown XLS2500 & Quad 606/707 - they are all rated into 1 ohm loads.... so they don't misbehave in any way into the load the speakers provide, and they all have sufficient power to achieve the required SPL's - even into 1 ohm. (which doesn't require a lot of power... but being able to drive a 1 ohm load is a big ask)

Your case is easier - you need the external amps to be capable of driving a 3 ohm load (to be safe, I would look for a 2 ohm rating).

You probably need a lot less power than you think - I would suggest that circa 64W@2ohm would be ample ( a lot of amps have their power ratings drop dramatically at very low impedances.... 64W@2ohm is equivalent to 16W@8ohm).

But they key thing, is to look for low impedance manufacturer ratings for those amps, or an external bench test where 2 ohm loads were tested.

Having said all that... if you have some spare power amps, or can beg/borrow/steal one for a quick trial... it is worth while trying the AVR out on its own first.
Your speakers are on the margin, where it is hard to tell whether the AVR will be fine, or whether it will need additional heavy lifting help - and the only way to tell, is to try it.

As an additional comment.... consider the LX805 as an alternative (or the RZ70 / DRX8.4) - the big brothers to the LX505 are absolutely easily capable of handling those speakers, without the addition of an external power amp - and the difference in price between the 505 & 805 may well be similar to the cost of an external power amp, while additionally getting support for twin subs, DLBC, and in future Dirac ART... as well as an improved DAC & processor.
Also set up is a lot simpler in a one-box solution!

 

[j4ys0n]

Try it without the external amp first. The power throttling exhibited here is essentially the result of a torture test, not real world conditions listening to music or movies. Not saying it can't be triggered in real world conditions, but there isn't much in the way of evidence online to suggest it's at all common.

If you do decide on an external amp, the Monolith would be my choice from the above list.

good to know that it's not much of an issue in real-world usage. thanks for that.

 

[j4ys0n]

Ok well, those Revel speakers do have a difficult impedance profile, with drops down to 3ohm.... not amplifier buster territory, but difficult nevertheless, and require a high current amp.

Would you encounter the dreaded protection mode with them - no, I don't think so.

In actual use, there have been no reports of the dreaded nanny mode kicking in, even with speakers substantially more difficult to drive than yours (such as my Gallo Ref 3.2, which drops down to 1.6ohm).

Will there be an audible improvement from the use of external amps...
No way of telling until you try it - the 505 and 305 (and NR7100, RZ50, DRX5.4/3.4) all have well nigh identical amp sections, and my personal experience with my Gallo speakers, was that an immediate improvement was heard when running Front L/R through a low impedance, 1 ohm capable, external amp. (even though very little power was used.... 99% of listening keeps things below 4W peak, and 100% is below 16W peak! )

Other observations of note: - The center channel is just as difficult as the L/R in my setup (also 1.6ohm), but it was fine staying connected to the AVR, once the L & R load was removed.
Once you remove the heavy lifting load of L & R, the AVR's internal power supply seems sufficient to keep things clean for all the other channels (Center, Surrounds, Height)... removing the L/R load left it with sufficient reserves.

Amps I used to try external are Crown XLS2500 & Quad 606/707 - they are all rated into 1 ohm loads.... so they don't misbehave in any way into the load the speakers provide, and they all have sufficient power to achieve the required SPL's - even into 1 ohm. (which doesn't require a lot of power... but being able to drive a 1 ohm load is a big ask)

Your case is easier - you need the external amps to be capable of driving a 3 ohm load (to be safe, I would look for a 2 ohm rating).

You probably need a lot less power than you think - I would suggest that circa 64W@2ohm would be ample ( a lot of amps have their power ratings drop dramatically at very low impedances.... 64W@2ohm is equivalent to 16W@8ohm).

But they key thing, is to look for low impedance manufacturer ratings for those amps, or an external bench test where 2 ohm loads were tested.

Having said all that... if you have some spare power amps, or can beg/borrow/steal one for a quick trial... it is worth while trying the AVR out on its own first.
Your speakers are on the margin, where it is hard to tell whether the AVR will be fine, or whether it will need additional heavy lifting help - and the only way to tell, is to try it.

As an additional comment.... consider the LX805 as an alternative (or the RZ70 / DRX8.4) - the big brothers to the LX505 are absolutely easily capable of handling those speakers, without the addition of an external power amp - and the difference in price between the 505 & 805 may well be similar to the cost of an external power amp, while additionally getting support for twin subs, DLBC, and in future Dirac ART... as well as an improved DAC & processor.
Also set up is a lot simpler in a one-box solution!

Thanks for the great info!

I did just take a hard look at the LX805 - I didn't know about this receiver. Thanks for pointing it out. It looks pretty awesome. It does look like they may have gotten rid of FlareConnect though. I guess I'm not totally surprised but that's a bit of a shame - I use that all the time. I've got some older 2 channel Pioneer Elite SX-S30s I use for some outdoor speakers and another section of the house. I could hardwire those, have to figure out the best way to do that. I wouldn't be able to sync with the other 2 areas I have Pioneer receivers though, but that might not be the end of the world.

 

[dlaloum]

Thanks for the great info!

I did just take a hard look at the LX805 - I didn't know about this receiver. Thanks for pointing it out. It looks pretty awesome. It does look like they may have gotten rid of FlareConnect though. I guess I'm not totally surprised but that's a bit of a shame - I use that all the time. I've got some older 2 channel Pioneer Elite SX-S30s I use for some outdoor speakers and another section of the house. I could hardwire those, have to figure out the best way to do that. I wouldn't be able to sync with the other 2 areas I have Pioneer receivers though, but that might not be the end of the world.

The LX805 is internally almost identical to the RZ70 - which had an in depth benchtest review recently on audioholics:

Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2CH AV Receiver Review

The Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2CH AV receiver boasts 140 watts/ch, 8K HDMI inputs, Auro 3D, FREE Dirac Live and the BEST bench test results we’ve seen in its price class. Is this the best AVR at under $3k?

www.audioholics.com

I would expect aspects like core specs, power output, etc... to be identical between RZ70 and LX805... with some minor differences in the menus and feature implementation.

Also pricing differences between the Onkyo and Pioneer models, mean that depending on where you are in the world, and what the local discounts are, one or the other may be the better deal... (unless you are wedded to the Pioneer look/feel)

 

[ban25]

Thanks for the great info!

I did just take a hard look at the LX805 - I didn't know about this receiver. Thanks for pointing it out. It looks pretty awesome. It does look like they may have gotten rid of FlareConnect though. I guess I'm not totally surprised but that's a bit of a shame - I use that all the time. I've got some older 2 channel Pioneer Elite SX-S30s I use for some outdoor speakers and another section of the house. I could hardwire those, have to figure out the best way to do that. I wouldn't be able to sync with the other 2 areas I have Pioneer receivers though, but that might not be the end of the world.

The LX805 supports Roon, which is a champ for multi-room audio. Not everyone loves the price, but it is the best-in-class solution for multi-room streaming, catalog aggregation & organization, etc:

Roon

roon.app

 

[j4ys0n]

The LX805 supports Roon, which is a champ for multi-room audio. Not everyone loves the price, but it is the best-in-class solution for multi-room streaming, catalog aggregation & organization, etc:

Roon

roon.app

ok ok f*k it - ordered the LX805!

thanks for pointing that out. roon looks pretty cool. might solve the problem. looks like i can run the roon core on my existing proxmox cluster and wouldn't have to buy a separate hub, i like that. and the wiim pro looks like one of the cheaper ways to make the older receivers compatible. i do currently use spotify mainly though, so that seems like a conflict. but the home assistant integration looks way better for a multi-room experience.

 

[ban25]

ok ok f*k it - ordered the LX805!

thanks for pointing that out. roon looks pretty cool. might solve the problem. looks like i can run the roon core on my existing proxmox cluster and wouldn't have to buy a separate hub, i like that. and the wiim pro looks like one of the cheaper ways to make the older receivers compatible. i do currently use spotify mainly though, so that seems like a conflict. but the home assistant integration looks way better for a multi-room experience.

Yep, the Roon core will run perfectly on Proxmox. I run it on a Linux home server that also stores my local music collection on a ZFS-based NAS. I have Tidal connected on Roon which acts as a backfill for anything I don't already have locally. The LX805 supports 24-bit/192 kHz lossless streaming via Roon.

 

[master_arthur]

Ok. Looks like that power usage changes are related to the volume/power needed. I've increased volume to -15dB and power usage spiked back to the previous levels.
Around 80W.
Lower volume - lower power usage.
Higher volume - higher power usage.
I guess amp does not need full power and it is lowering power usage after some time when I use lower volume.

Did you see the drop after 25 minutues at this volume?

 

[dlaloum]

Did you see the drop after 25 minutues at this volume?

Keep in mind 80W power usage at the power point, does not equate to 80W power output to the speakers....

Typically at least half (possibly more!) of the 80W will be consumed by the HDMI and DSP Processor chips - heavily dependent on what decoders & EQ are active and what sort of video processing is involved as well...

Then there will be the variable part which should relate directly to the power output.

In real life a low efficiency (85db/wm) pair of speaker, listened to at 3m (9') will put out more than the reference level of 85db, at the MLP with only 2W of speaker input power...

64W will push it up to over 101db - which is OK for peaks, but completely unbearable, and physically dangerous as a continuous level.

 

[MbphotoX]

Ok well, those Revel speakers do have a difficult impedance profile, with drops down to 3ohm.... not amplifier buster territory, but difficult nevertheless, and require a high current amp.

Would you encounter the dreaded protection mode with them - no, I don't think so.

In actual use, there have been no reports of the dreaded nanny mode kicking in, even with speakers substantially more difficult to drive than yours (such as my Gallo Ref 3.2, which drops down to 1.6ohm).

Will there be an audible improvement from the use of external amps...
No way of telling until you try it - the 505 and 305 (and NR7100, RZ50, DRX5.4/3.4) all have well nigh identical amp sections, and my personal experience with my Gallo speakers, was that an immediate improvement was heard when running Front L/R through a low impedance, 1 ohm capable, external amp. (even though very little power was used.... 99% of listening keeps things below 4W peak, and 100% is below 16W peak! )

Other observations of note: - The center channel is just as difficult as the L/R in my setup (also 1.6ohm), but it was fine staying connected to the AVR, once the L & R load was removed.
Once you remove the heavy lifting load of L & R, the AVR's internal power supply seems sufficient to keep things clean for all the other channels (Center, Surrounds, Height)... removing the L/R load left it with sufficient reserves.

Amps I used to try external are Crown XLS2500 & Quad 606/707 - they are all rated into 1 ohm loads.... so they don't misbehave in any way into the load the speakers provide, and they all have sufficient power to achieve the required SPL's - even into 1 ohm. (which doesn't require a lot of power... but being able to drive a 1 ohm load is a big ask)

Your case is easier - you need the external amps to be capable of driving a 3 ohm load (to be safe, I would look for a 2 ohm rating).

You probably need a lot less power than you think - I would suggest that circa 64W@2ohm would be ample ( a lot of amps have their power ratings drop dramatically at very low impedances.... 64W@2ohm is equivalent to 16W@8ohm).

But they key thing, is to look for low impedance manufacturer ratings for those amps, or an external bench test where 2 ohm loads were tested.

Having said all that... if you have some spare power amps, or can beg/borrow/steal one for a quick trial... it is worth while trying the AVR out on its own first.
Your speakers are on the margin, where it is hard to tell whether the AVR will be fine, or whether it will need additional heavy lifting help - and the only way to tell, is to try it.

As an additional comment.... consider the LX805 as an alternative (or the RZ70 / DRX8.4) - the big brothers to the LX505 are absolutely easily capable of handling those speakers, without the addition of an external power amp - and the difference in price between the 505 & 805 may well be similar to the cost of an external power amp, while additionally getting support for twin subs, DLBC, and in future Dirac ART... as well as an improved DAC & processor.
Also set up is a lot simpler in a one-box solution!

my B&W N803 also drop below 3 Ohms.. and I've never encountered any issues with the Pioneer..
(only running 5.1 at the moment, but with front L and R in full range (double bass or what it's called).. because they play down to 20Hz and even out my bass modes..)

 

[EWL5]

my B&W N803 also drop below 3 Ohms.. and I've never encountered any issues with the Pioneer..
(only running 5.1 at the moment, but with front L and R in full range (double bass or what it's called).. because they play down to 20Hz and even out my bass modes..)

How far away are your speakers? You may not be stressing out the AVR if < 10 ft and/or don't listen at high volume!

 

[MbphotoX]

How far away are your speakers? You may not be stressing out the AVR if < 10 ft and/or don't listen at high volume!

of course I'm not stressing out the AVR..

That AVR delivers over 600W RMS into 5 channels.. (122W x 5 continuosly into 6 Ohms measured! nearly 700W with 7 channels driven)

I need 25W per large front speaker to reach 96dB SPL.. (less than 10ft away, speaker 2ft from wall)
Which is basically the peak SPL I need, since I never watch above -10dB

now, longer distance, less efficient speakers, watching at THX reference levels (to damage your hearing with average 80+ dB SPL?!) that picture would be a different one.