New GR-Research Video - Audiophile Cable Truths

[egellings]

I suspect that RFI would ride, common mode, right into the amp through the fancy cable, shield and all.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

I've definitely wanted to listen to some of his designs over the years, but haven't had the chance to hear any. I especially always liked the GR-Research servo subs, and see that they're used in some of the Rythmik designs as well.

FYI, it's the other way around. It's the Rythmik servo designs that are used in the GR-Research subs.
All of that engineering/implementation is done by Brian Ding at Rythmik. Danny Richie wouldn't have the first clue how to modify those plate amplifiers to incorporate the servo feedback.

Dave.

 

[cursive]

FYI, it's the other way around. It's the Rythmik servo designs that are used in the GR-Research subs.
All of that engineering/implementation is done by Brian Ding at Rythmik. Danny Richie wouldn't have the first clue how to modify those plate amplifiers to incorporate the servo feedback.

Dave.

Thanks for clarifying, I know the GR-Research driver is a paper cone and seems to be less expensive than the other Rythmik offerings. It seems to be advertised as an even faster, lighter weight cone for music paired with the servo tech. I perhaps wrongly assumed it was GR-Research driver, and Rythmik amplifier. Either way I'm sure the drivers are made for them by some outside company. I really had no idea what part was designed by who, but still have yet to hear a servo sub, so I gotta make a point to try one.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

Danny promotes the servo-woofer setups primarily for open-baffle usage. (Which is the least beneficial application they could be used in.)
They are much more appropriate for boxed systems where cone motion might deviate from signal applied to a far greater degree because of air spring resistance.

Nowadays in 2021 we have an extremely wide selection of excellent sub-woofer drivers to chose from, such that I don't think servo woofer schemes are worth all the extra expense/complication to implement them. Servo-controlled woofer setups do have an excellent marketing 'hook' for audiophile types though.

Dave.

 

[jhaider]

I don't think Danny is intentionally trying to rip anyone off,

OTOH, the scam he’s running with those stupid “tube connectors” he buys cheap in India...

 

[cursive]

OTOH, the scam he’s running with those stupid “tube connectors” he buys cheap in India...

Is that right? I suppose nothing is actually a Danny Richie design which pretty telling. Cracks me up that having the speaker wire closer to the internal wire is supposed to make such a drastic audible difference. I could understand promoting them as a cheap alternative to banana plugs, but at 59.00 a pop, it seems questionable for sure.

 

[jhaider]

Is that right?

I have no idea how much he pays for them, but someone forwarded me something he posted with tracking info. He imports them from India. My guess is shipping costs as much as or more than the actual parts.

 

[josh358]

Thanks for clarifying, I know the GR-Research driver is a paper cone and seems to be less expensive than the other Rythmik offerings. It seems to be advertised as an even faster, lighter weight cone for music paired with the servo tech. I perhaps wrongly assumed it was GR-Research driver, and Rythmik amplifier. Either way I'm sure the drivers are made for them by some outside company. I really had no idea what part was designed by who, but still have yet to hear a servo sub, so I gotta make a point to try one.

IIRC, the reason he uses the paper cone is that it's useful to a higher frequency, presumably because of breakup in the aluminum version.

 

[josh358]

Danny promotes the servo-woofer setups primarily for open-baffle usage. (Which is the least beneficial application they could be used in.)
They are much more appropriate for boxed systems where cone motion might deviate from signal applied to a far greater degree because of air spring resistance.

Nowadays in 2021 we have an extremely wide selection of excellent sub-woofer drivers to chose from, such that I don't think servo woofer schemes are worth all the extra expense/complication to implement them. Servo-controlled woofer setups do have an excellent marketing 'hook' for audiophile types though.

Dave.

Tim ran into an HF limitation on the servo amps, hooked the woofers to a conventional amp, and found that they worked just fine.

Also, IIRC (it's been many years) a review of a sealed Rythmik sub didn't find particularly low distortion, which surprised me, since the Infinity servo subs supposedly had very low distortion. That said, Rhythmik claims that the servo eliminates thermal compression.

 

[GGroch]

The 3rd in Danny's Audiofile Cable Truths series has just been posted:

 

[ctrl]

The 3rd in Danny's Audiofile Cable Truths series has just been posted:

A nice experiment on induction.

But is that satire at the expense of his paying customers?

Danny at least admits through this video that the assumed influence of RF on speaker cables should be measurable.
According to his own statements in the video, standard cables represent antennas and the induced interference is measurable.
Why does he not prove this with the speaker cable?

The experimental setup to prove his thesis was ready, even the special cable was already on the table:

It would be so simple:

1. connect standard speaker cable to tweeter, play a 2kHz sine wave and measure the tweeter in the near field.
2. do the same with the magic cable.

According to Danny's theory, the standard speaker cable should show a significantly increased noise floor compared to his special cable.

I sacrificed five minutes of my time and performed the measurement, as described at 1, with a standard speaker cable that is more than 5 meters long.

A WLAN router and the base stations of two DECT phones are three meters away, plus 2 active smartphones at a distance of 5 meters. I live in the old town surrounded by other houses/WLAN routers and there is a 50kW VHF radio tower 20km away on a mountain.

Now that I think about it, how have I even been able to listen to music without a special LS cable? My speaker must have induced and modulated noise like crazy!

Here the near field measurement of the tweeter with standard LS cable:

The 2kHz sine tone with -20dB can be seen well.
At 4 and 6 kHz, the second and third order harmonic distortions caused by the tweeter can be seen too.

And the remaining noise floor is around -120dB, so it is attenuated by almost 100dB compared to the test tone. Anyone who uses a turntable can only dream of such a result.
What should be improved, it's already perfect?

Now Danny just has to show that there is a much better result with the special LS cable - the effort for the experiment is five minutes.

 

[DaaDaa]

A nice experiment on induction.

But is that satire at the expense of his paying customers?

Danny at least admits through this video that the assumed influence of RF on speaker cables should be measurable.
According to his own statements in the video, standard cables represent antennas and the induced interference is measurable.
Why does he not prove this with the speaker cable?

The experimental setup to prove his thesis was ready, even the special cable was already on the table:
View attachment 114258

It would be so simple:

1. connect standard speaker cable to tweeter, play a 2kHz sine wave and measure the tweeter in the near field.
2. do the same with the magic cable.

According to Danny's theory, the standard speaker cable should show a significantly increased noise floor compared to his special cable.

I sacrificed five minutes of my time and performed the measurement, as described at 1, with a standard speaker cable that is more than 5 meters long.

A WLAN router and the base stations of two DECT phones are three meters away, plus 2 active smartphones at a distance of 5 meters. I live in the old town surrounded by other houses/WLAN routers and there is a 50kW VHF radio tower 20km away on a mountain.

Now that I think about it, how have I even been able to listen to music without a special LS cable? My speaker must have induced and modulated noise like crazy!

Here the near field measurement of the tweeter with standard LS cable:
View attachment 114265
The 2kHz sine tone with -20dB can be seen well.
At 4 and 6 kHz, the second and third order harmonic distortions caused by the tweeter can be seen too.

And the remaining noise floor is around -120dB, so it is attenuated by almost 100dB compared to the test tone. Anyone who uses a turntable can only dream of such a result.
What should be improved, it's already perfect?

Now Danny just has to show that there is a much better result with the special LS cable - the effort for the experiment is five minutes.

Thank you. great post. In this 3 episode series on cables this third one was the least cringe. i dont see the reason why he doesnt stick selling speakers and designing crossovers as almost all of his offerings do sound good.

 

[MattHooper]

He may be wrong on cables (I don’t have a well formed view), but, he’s designed some of the best speakers I’ve heard over the last thirty years. I’ve particularly appreciated his “design flexibility” - line arrays, standard sealed boxes, open baffle units, planar magnetic and traditional domes, and on and on.

That's why the scientific method evolved.

In science you are only as good as your method and evidence - it's all about the evidence for any claim, never the "man" making the claim. Because everyone is fallible and being right about something the last time doesn't make you right about something else this time.

Tons of brilliant scientists through history have gone off the rails and believed in wacky things. That happens when they aren't being scientists.
And even if they had made major contributions, it's because those contributions survived the crucible of experiment, replication etc. The wacky stuff stays on the sidelines because it never passed those tests. (It's often said in science that a scientists is lucky to have only one or two of his hypotheses/theories become successful).

 

[MattHooper]

Amir's ASR YouTube channel response to Danny's Videos just posted:

Well done!

Amir this is GOLD!

Thank you!

 

[mansr]

Tons of brilliant scientists through history have gone off the rails and believed in wacky things.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nobel_disease

 

[wwenze]

Newton is the first to pop into mind

I couldn't re-find a nice infographic about brain mechanics vs age, but it showed how the capability to learn drops with age. Then followed by the capability to think.

It was a landscape-orientation graph with age on the X-axis and talks about the % of the different brain cells mechanisms responsible for learning that change with ages. A good study that I regret losing sight of.

 

[Chrispy]

I think of Linus Pauling and vitamin C.....

 

[Brucemck2]

May I ask which speakers of his you've liked best? And are they kits, or speakers that are still available on his site?

Nearly 20 years ago his LS9 line arrays reset my expectations of what a sealed box could do. More recently the design (don’t remember the name) with the open baffle midrange was really impressive at RMAF - it was very precise but had nice “air and space” in the soundstage. His open baffle woofers are nice too, but less distinctive.

 

[josh358]

Newton is the first to pop into mind

I couldn't re-find a nice infographic about brain mechanics vs age, but it showed how the capability to learn drops with age. Then followed by the capability to think.

It was a landscape-orientation graph with age on the X-axis and talks about the % of the different brain cells mechanisms responsible for learning that change with ages. A good study that I regret losing sight of.

Here's one:

At 66, the only question I have is whether my remaining hearing or my remaining brain cells will vanish first.

 

[josh358]

Nearly 20 years ago his LS9 line arrays reset my expectations of what a sealed box could do. More recently the design (don’t remember the name) with the open baffle midrange was really impressive at RMAF - it was very precise but had nice “air and space” in the soundstage. His open baffle woofers are nice too, but less distinctive.

I've only heard the OB H frames a shows, but I've heard from guys who have both that they're as good as planar bass but with higher output and better LF extension. Adding that to a line of six Neo 10's on a large (folded) baffle has to sound great.