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KEF LS60 Wireless Just Announced

oivavoi

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Quite significant for a current KEF pair deviation between 200 and 600 Hz, wonder if it is due to different boundary filter selection?

Anyway the much bigger and more expensive passive Blade Meta One measured recently by the same magazine measures quite better
I'm surprised it isn't flatter, given their opportunities with DSP in this speaker. Especially the peak above 12 hz, strange they didn't equalize that? Or did they think that too much equalization could have bad consequences?
 

Tangband

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Quite significant for a current KEF pair deviation between 200 and 600 Hz, wonder if it is due to different boundary filter selection?

Anyway the much bigger and more expensive passive Blade Meta One measured recently by the same magazine measures quite better
Yes - I would have hoped that Kef had compensated in the dsp for the frequency response ripple because of the slim baffle in ls60 W, but apparently not .
The Blade meta 2 and ls50 WII measures more flat.
In the measurements, they use only a 30 dB window ( standard is 50 ) so it looks a bit worse than some other measurements. I guess that the coming stereophile measurements by John Atkinson gonna look a bit better because of that.

The treble is down -4 dB at 10 KHz and this should be very audible. But some corrections can be made If one uses the dsp tonecontrols.

The bass in the measurements is down -6 dB at 34 Hz.
When I listened to the speaker in a store, I could hear that there were nothing below 30-34 Hz , but the bass quality had great articulation. In my opinion this is much more important than a flat response to 20 Hz .

In Hifinews review, the loudspeaker was rated ”outstanding product” and the sound was great .
I agree - the sound in real life is much better than the measurements show.

B74518F8-B1AB-490C-9CA6-28705EC1C759.jpeg
 
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Tangband

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I'm surprised it isn't flatter, given their opportunities with DSP in this speaker. Especially the peak above 12 hz, strange they didn't equalize that? Or did they think that too much equalization could have bad consequences?
Maybe they only corrected for the 4 bass drivers response and the midrange. But we dont know.
 
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oivavoi

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Maybe they only corrected for the 4 bass drivers response and the midrange. But we dont know.
Indeed. I'm generally not obsessed with ruler flat responses, these things are often not as audible as people think. But those two "humps" between approx. 4 and 8 khz and between 12 and 20 khz do probably color the sound.
EDIT: I'm almost tempted to think there was something wrong with this pair, given that the response of the LS50WII is so much flatter for example.
 

Sancus

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Ummmm....

This is HiFiNews' on-axis(I assume?) of the Perlisten S4B:
722perl.lab1.jpg


And this is Erin's:
CEA2034%20--%20Perlisten%20S4b.png

I am pretty sure what is going on here is these guys have no clue what they're doing and need to go and read napi's guide on how to take good quasi-anechoic measurements. And then delete all the measurements on their website for being misinformation and start from scratch.
 

Tangband

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Ummmm....

This is HiFiNews' on-axis(I assume?) of the Perlisten S4B:
722perl.lab1.jpg


And this is Erin's:
CEA2034%20--%20Perlisten%20S4b.png

I am pretty sure what is going on here is these guys have no clue what they're doing and need to go and read napi's guide on how to take good quasi-anechoic measurements. And then delete all the measurements on their website for being misinformation and start from scratch.
Well, lets see how the coming review in Stereophile looks like . There is enough measurements now that shows that the frequency response of ls 60 is not ruler flat.

And again - hifinews uses a 30 dB window, making most speakers look non flat. The industry standard is 50 dB .
Erin uses 50 dB .
 

Sancus

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And again - hifinews uses a 30 dB window, making most speakers look non flat. The industry standard is 50 dB .
Erin uses 50 dB .
It's not really a question of that though, you can see the bass is completely wrong. There is no hump at 150hz. There is no bump at 1.5khz at all, not even 1 or 2dB.

I don't see any reason to trust these measurements, especially not when there is no reason to release such poor quality ones with no off-axis information at all, other than pure laziness. Not to mention, using a low Y axis range implies you think your measurements are precise enough to justify closer scrutiny of the speaker. But these are clearly not. Their whole process makes no sense.

E: I'm NOT saying the LS60 is flat, in fact just a few pages ago I made the case that Kef's own measurements show them to be sloped down. But I doubt there are all these crazy variations, not considering how Kef's other speakers measure.
 
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ChrisHeinonen

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If you want to more directly compare the Perlisten data, I've overlaid the two graphs and scaled HiFi News to match. I made two versions, one with the bass response aligned, and one with the dB levels aligned, so you can see how the results compare. I'm not good at image editing but it should work.

CEA2034 -- Perlisten S4b Bass Matched.png


CEA2034 -- Perlisten S4b dB Matched.png
 

Sancus

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If you want to more directly compare the Perlisten data, I've overlaid the two graphs and scaled HiFi News to match. I made two versions, one with the bass response aligned, and one with the dB levels aligned, so you can see how the results compare. I'm not good at image editing but it should work.
Yeah, that's very useful, I was just too lazy to do it :p Thanks. Their high frequency measurements are OK(as I would expect, since above 2-3khz simple gating should produce good results), but there are big issues from 100hz-2khz. And that's the most important range...

It also looks like they might be performing the nearfield+farfield splice wrong similarly to Stereophile, which creates those fake bass boosts. But even if you fix that, there are significant errors from 200hz-2khz.
 

Tangband

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Yeah, that's very useful, I was just too lazy to do it :p Thanks. Their high frequency measurements are OK(as I would expect, since above 2-3khz simple gating should produce good results), but there are big issues from 100hz-2khz. And that's the most important range...

It also looks like they might be performing the nearfield+farfield splice wrong similarly to Stereophile, which creates those fake bass boosts. But even if you fix that, there are significant errors from 200hz-2khz.
Heres another measurement from a forum member on his ls60, earlier in this thread.
smoothing is 1/12.
We still see that -4 dB at 10 KHz , on axis. The 15 degree measurement off axis is slightly more flat.:)
The eye get easily fooled by the different scales.
4CFC7A7F-0570-4E90-B00F-F5BE798C7767.jpeg
796EB525-75F1-4BBC-ABB7-D7A81673FBB6.jpeg
 
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Vacceo

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What made you decide to sell the Revel and replace them with KEF Blade Meta 2?
I assume your are getting five for the perfect surround sound!
My question would be why the Blades and not the Perlistens, as he knows both well.
 

thewas

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Some in-room measurements (and review)

 

Tangband

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Some in-room measurements (and review)

Interesting ! :).
The crossover for the uniQ driver seems to be slightly lower in frequency than the spec .- in this review it seems to be at around 280 Hz .
 

changer

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Here they say the woofers playing up into the mids blur the image slightly:

This makes sense when looking at the spinorama provided by KEF where it is omni up quite a bit.
 

Tangband

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Here they say the woofers playing up into the mids blur the image slightly:

This makes sense when looking at the spinorama provided by KEF where it is omni up quite a bit.
They did like the sound anyway . 9,7 points out of 10 is a very high score.:)

”The performance this time begins with Atrocities by Antony and the Johnsons. Here the total of eight bass drivers demonstrate their skills. It goes deep down until the whole room is filled. They can also punch, as AnnenMayKantereit's Weisse Wand shows. The amplifiers inside the speakers have the drivers well under control. The advantages of the force-cancelling structure are also evident when you put your hand on the loudspeakers during loud bass beats. Vibrations are hardly felt. The slim box is rock solid.

Sometimes compromises have to be made

The sound of the LS60 Wireless builds up in front of you like a big, massive wall. This is impressive and, with the right music, is good for one or the other goosebumps. However, some well-known tracks lacked a bit of instrument sorting here and there. The soundstage, while huge, was at times not drawn with the same obsession with detail as we've come to expect from other KEF speakers. Nina Simone finally provided a possible explanation with the classic My Baby Just Cares for Me. The singer's voice is usually clearly on the left in this recording. With the LS60 Wireless, however, it sounded like Nina was standing almost halfway between the two speakers. A changed line-up could improve the effect, but not completely eliminate it. An ear on the woofer gives a hint: The bass drivers on the side apparently have to take over large parts of the voice, which is then radiated laterally into the area between the speakers and thus makes the otherwise clear localization more difficult.”
—————
”The KEF LS60 Wireless is an exceptional speaker. Rarely has an active floorstanding speaker looked more chic and at the same time offered so many talents. Depending on the colour, it can stand back with its slender shape or call out "here I am!" in bold blue. If you are a sworn hi-fi listener and want the last bit of audiophile correctness, there may be other speakers - including those from KEF - that will suit you better. But if you just want to listen to really good music, you'll appreciate the entertainer qualities of the LS60 Wireless.

If you can give her enough space, she'll bring your music—and your feet—to life. The pleasingly simple app and the remote control also make control child's play. The KEF LS60 Wireless deserves first place among the active loudspeakers at HIFI.DE.”

——————————

My own listening sessions in two stores with these speakers are that If any, the slight boost at 200 Hz makes it sound with a wonderful sence of richness with most music. I can feel that the loudspeaker is voiced by people who knows 2 -channel music at its best.
 
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changer

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Well, it is more than a boost, it is rather DI = 0 dB up to 150 Hz.
 

sifi36

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Well, it is more than a boost, it is rather DI = 0 dB up to 150 Hz.
I’m inclined to believe that’s an artefact of the way KEF measure their speakers. Below is a comparison of the KEF Reference 1 Meta, between KEF’s data (dashed, a small anechoic chamber is used by KEF) versus Erin’s data as measured by the Klippel NFS (solid). The Klippel shows that DI is not flat up to 150Hz, contrary to the data supplied by KEF.

0010830B-2ACC-46BF-BDA9-E186EF05F9A7.jpeg
 

pablolie

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Today I had the oportunity to listen to Kef ls60 again in another store. Soundsource were TIDAL and Apple lossless.

Listening impressions that stands out :
...

I concur: these sound extremely complete and rounded. Would have to spend far more time with them to really compare them, but I was quite impressed right away. I also like to form my initial impressions at lower listening levels, and these instill music with satisfying authority like that. And when I turned the volume up more, it was hard to believe so much came out of such a thin speaker. I wish they had them in red - guess it is a matter of waiting, KEF tends to do special edition colors regularly.
 

morespinach

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I concur: these sound extremely complete and rounded. Would have to spend far more time with them to really compare them, but I was quite impressed right away. I also like to form my initial impressions at lower listening levels, and these instill music with satisfying authority like that. And when I turned the volume up more, it was hard to believe so much came out of such a thin speaker. I wish they had them in red - guess it is a matter of waiting, KEF tends to do special edition colors regularly.


What powered speakers have you compared these to?
Dutch & Dutch 8c?
Kii Three?
Genelec 8351B or 8361?
Dynaudio Focus 30 or 50?
 
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