Kef LS60 and Room correction?

[Kal Rubinson]

I have implemented room correction with my LS60s using two different methods. In both methods I measured my speakers using REW and generated a .wav convolution file following this tutorial:

1. For the first method I generated a .wav convolution file that includes both Left and Right channels, and uploaded that to SqueezeDSP, which is a plugin for Logitech Media Server (LMS). I then used LMS to stream music to my LS60s. LMS and SqueezeDSP are free and open source projects, so there is no cost other than the hardware you use to host LMS. I use my NAS, which I already had. Unfortunately, the Tidal plugin for LMS no longer is supported (it was a little clunky anyway), which led me to method 2.

2. The second method uses separate convolution files for the left and right channels, and requires additional hardware. Here is a very thorough tutorial provided by mdsimon2: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/rpi4-camilladsp-tutorial.29656/.

I purchased a WiiM streamer, a Raspberry Pi and a miniDSP MCHStreamer kit. The MCHStreamer connects to the Raspberry Pi via USB, and handles digital input and output for the Raspberry Pi via TosLink or coaxial SPDIF.

I installed Ubuntu Server and Camilla DSP (both free and open source) on the Raspberry Pi, and uploaded the left and right channel convolution files to Camilla DSP. The WiiM feeds the Raspberry Pi via the MCHStreamer input, where Camilla DSP applies the convolution files. Chamilla DSP uses the MCHStreamer output to feed a digital input on the primary LS60.

The MCHStreamer kit includes TosLink input and output jacks, but not RCA jacks for the coaxial SPDIF. Instead, the board has two connectors where the RCA jacks are to be connected. I will add the RCA jacks after I 3D print a case for the MCHStreamer. Until then I am using TosLink, and it sounds fantastic. My LS60s definitely benefit from room correction.

I note that you say that you "have implemented room correction with my LS60s" and that's so. However, many using a digital connection to the LS60 can do similar in their systems with many different bits of software. The real trick would be for the implementation of room correction in the LS60s.

 

[srrxr71]

I note that you say that you "have implemented room correction with my LS60s" and that's so. However, many using a digital connection to the LS60 can do similar in their systems with many different bits of software. The real trick would be for the implementation of room correction in the LS60s.

That’s just not in the feature set of the KEF active product line though.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

That’s just not in the feature set of the KEF active product line though.

And that's the point of this thread, ain't it?

 

[srrxr71]

And that's the point of this thread, ain't it?

Sure. I would say the new $4999 price I see makes it all worth it.

 

[terryforsythe]

I note that you say that you "have implemented room correction with my LS60s" and that's so. However, many using a digital connection to the LS60 can do similar in their systems with many different bits of software. The real trick would be for the implementation of room correction in the LS60s.

Well, if we had that, there would be no need for the other solutions. I posted the methods for anyone looking for a solution until KEF makes room correction available for the LS60s, if ever.

 

[roffe]

And that's the point of this thread, ain't it?

Looking at the firmware release notes for the LS60's makes me not holding my breath for changes of this magnitude... Although it would be most welcome.

 

[srrxr71]

Looking at the firmware release notes for the LS60's makes me not holding my breath for changes of this magnitude... Although it would be most welcome.

The best assumption to make is that the hardware just isn’t ready for it.

Even if they offered a sub delay or a few pew bands then the issue will arise about how many pEq bands they offer.

Probably better just to use whichever room correction system of your choice.

Also probably better to bypass the sub output built in and use a 4 channel room correction and implement the sub(s) within that system.

 

[sweetmusic]

The Dynaudio Focus series has the feature set the OP wants. Have you listened?

I have to say, I like the Dynaudio sound too. This site makes me wish for Revel and Focal to join the active speaker market too. Offer Dirac with all of them and we would be so spoiled for choices.

 

[Mnyb]

Yes let’s hope the active speaker market grows that said I bought the LS60 anyway and plan to use external solutions. Because the speaker are very good they sound excellent as is before I fumbled with EQ and subs . So you start from a good place .

More competition is good .

Re making the user experience simple. Sub manufacturers have no problems adding like seven PEQ in thier products. But kef think they need to dumb down the product? I don’t think this argument holds up .

 

[GA16SE]

I’ve recently reread the “Kef LS60 and Room correction?” thread and a few posts in the “Kef LS60 wireless review by ErinsAudioCorner”. I wonder if the reluctance of the KEF R&D team to include, for example, Dirac Live - Digital Room Correction software for KEF LS60 speakers is related to the possible triggering of some protections as mentioned by @jackocleebrown and @AOR:

Kef LS60 wireless review by ErinsAudioCorner

@Muddywaters Excellent stuff, thank you for sharing! Nice room. It looks to my naked eye that there's compression in the lower midrange as well, but it would be easier to spot if you were to show this normalized to the green one. I forgot how you do that in REW, but perhaps someone remember or...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Kef LS60 wireless review by ErinsAudioCorner

@Muddywaters Excellent stuff, thank you for sharing! Nice room. It looks to my naked eye that there's compression in the lower midrange as well, but it would be easier to spot if you were to show this normalized to the green one. I forgot how you do that in REW, but perhaps someone remember or...

www.audiosciencereview.com

As part of DiracLive calibration, various sine sweeps are played through each speaker that might “trigger different limiters acting on different drivers and different portions of the frequency spectrum”. Might those protections disrupt the validity of the DIRAC calibration during speaker use?

What are your opinions?

 

[terryforsythe]

I’ve recently reread the “Kef LS60 and Room correction?” thread and a few posts in the “Kef LS60 wireless review by ErinsAudioCorner”. I wonder if the reluctance of the KEF R&D team to include, for example, Dirac Live - Digital Room Correction software for KEF LS60 speakers is related to the possible triggering of some protections as mentioned by @jackocleebrown and @AOR:

As part of DiracLive calibration, various sine sweeps are played through each speaker that might “trigger different limiters acting on different drivers and different portions of the frequency spectrum”. Might those protections disrupt the validity of the DIRAC calibration during speaker use?

What are your opinions?

I think you are correct. Dirac Live probably would have to be customized to deal with the protection when it starts kicking in.

Adding a 10-band PEQ should be doable, though. I'm a little surprised that KEF has not done that.

 

[NYfan2]

I'm not sure if I already wrote this in this thread.
Last year at a demo of KEF I asked the representative from the factory why there was no PEQ available in the LS60, the answer was clear, at KEF they think that for the average user PEQ is to complicated and can do more wrong than good.
The advice was to use Roon if you want to apply PEQ.

 

[somebodyelse]

If it's too complicated for the 'average customer' they could at least have a way for dealers or technical users to configure it by uploading a file, using a console interface or something. That would give dealers a service to sell, keep the technical users happy, and keep the complication hidden from everyone else.

 

[Purité Audio]

Sure I have mentioned this before but the U.K. Kii distributor doesn’t or at least didn’t tell his retailers that the Threes now included peq.
Keith

 

[Vacceo]

I'm not sure if I already wrote this in this thread.
Last year at a demo of KEF I asked the representative from the factory why there was no PEQ available in the LS60, the answer was clear, at KEF they think that for the average user PEQ is to complicated and can do more wrong than good.
The advice was to use Roon if you want to apply PEQ.

Well, so is Dirac or Audyssey at least for the first time, but that could be behind an "advanced" menu. I´d not mind getting a Dirac license if the hardware is able to take it and invest the time to adjust it.

AVR´s can be quite complicated if you want to squeeze every option, but they also work if you just connect the speakers and send a signal.

 

[terryforsythe]

Well, so is Dirac or Audyssey at least for the first time, but that could be behind an "advanced" menu. I´d not mind getting a Dirac license if the hardware is able to take it and invest the time to adjust it.

AVR´s can be quite complicated if you want to squeeze every option, but they also work if you just connect the speakers and send a signal.

I suspect KEF is just using "too complicated" as an excuse. Eventually they will give in to keep up with the competition. Unfortunately, that probably only will apply to future products, though.

 

[Vacceo]

I suspect KEF is just using "too complicated" as an excuse. Eventually they will give in to keep up with the competition. Unfortunately, that probably only will apply to future products, though.

To be fair, I´d love to be able to build a multichannel system with their actives. Perhaps I´m incredibly used to the LS50 WII app, so I would love to use sources that could be controled with the same app. Think of a CD transport, in very compact size or a turntable along the lines of the stuff Cambridge makes to combine with them.

Give me also way to run ethernet cables to other speakers so I can build an 11.4 system and I´ll be a happy camper.

 

[C0mbat]

The LS60 has always been my end game speaker in my mind. Until I realised that it doesn't have PEQ lol. I currently have the WiiM Ultra, Fosi Audio V3 Monos, Kef R7 and the Kef KC62. Using the suggested EQ settings from REW to configure the 20 slots of PEQ in the WiiM was a complete game changer. I've measure three different speakers in my room and no matter which ones I have the same room modes. The different EQing made to sort that modes was so big that I don't think spending five times as much on speakers would make as big a difference without PEQ.

One question. I'm assuming that I could just keep my WiiM (or get a cheaper WiiM) and feed the EQ'd signal in to the LS60s?

 

[Mnyb]

Yes i have an WiiM PRO + and feed the EQ’d signal to the LS60 i even let the LS60 handle sub xover

 

[srrxr71]

The LS60 has always been my end game speaker in my mind. Until I realised that it doesn't have PEQ lol. I currently have the WiiM Ultra, Fosi Audio V3 Monos, Kef R7 and the Kef KC62. Using the suggested EQ settings from REW to configure the 20 slots of PEQ in the WiiM was a complete game changer. I've measure three different speakers in my room and no matter which ones I have the same room modes. The different EQing made to sort that modes was so big that I don't think spending five times as much on speakers would make as big a difference without PEQ.

One question. I'm assuming that I could just keep my WiiM (or get a cheaper WiiM) and feed the EQ'd signal in to the LS60s?

Yep either that or mini dsp if you wish to try Dirac.