Advice needed - Kef LS60 vs Kii vs D&D

[poopy]

neither they nor their London dealers have answered any of my inquiries.

Well…. nothing unusual

 

[Purité Audio]

I would still value your thoughts.
Best,
Keith

 

[poopy]

I might have some here, you would of course be most welcome if you are anywhere nearby.
Keith

What? Are you going to have a pair of RL901K?

 

[Purité Audio]

Well too early to say though they did ( eventually ) write back to me, it would be their ‘High-End’ range which does contain 801/901.
Keith

 

[MKR]

Worked out? As in they are no longer carried in the US market. I was maybe 1 of 5 people I personally talked to who had problems. Their speakers sound phenomenal. Better than the Dutch & Dutch ime, but their serviceability and need for repairs puts them at the bottom of the list. Really a shame because they have a unique product no one else is making. Cardioid down to low frequencies sub 50hz, they make everything in house, including drivers, and the finishes are furniture grade. Never saw a finish as nice as theirs before. It showcases the wood but not in a flashy way.

Dang, bummer, sorry. I would fully expect the Geithains to sound good given the ”low” cardioid. This is rare and the only manufactures doing this as far as I know is Soundfield and more recently GGNTKT with the new M3s. Almost all cardioid designs, including the 8C are cardioid only down to around 100Hz if I am not mistaken. I think Kii also goes only down to around 100Hz (even with the BXT)? Low cardioid is a fully different experience! And didn’t realize they also made their own drivers, that’s impressive.

 

[poopy]

Well too early to say though they did ( eventually ) write back to me, it would be their ‘High-End’ range which does contain 801/901.
Keith

Keep me updated. I have dreamt of a final RL901K vs Manta + 2x10D in the very same room that has never happened.
I can come and visit again brining lunch and afternoon snacks, and mor for your time

 

[MKR]

Can't agree more! ;-)

I found the RL901K giving a better experience!

I am sure that this is at least in part due to the low cardioid capability of the Geithains

 

[prestigetone]

Have independent measurements for any Geithain shown up anywhere? I sit around 4m and my room treatment options are limited, so they seem like an ideal fit but neither they nor their London dealers have answered any of my inquiries. I'd basically be buying completely blind

You could easily buy blind and you will love whatever it is they send you. They've been doing their coaxial meets cardioid just about longer than anyone. I bought blind and have no regrets because it showed me the potential of good sound. Depending on your location it's a big risk to buy from them as they work 4 days a week, have a limited staff and in my case they shipped the speakers with insufficient packing material. Their lack of desire to service markets outside of Germany is well known and I have seen used monitors that need refoaming or adjustments and the pricing outside of warranty is high. Feel free to dm if you need clarification. I've looked at this from all angles. If you're still interested the best thing to do is buy from a German dealer and not direct. That way you at least have some point of contact. Even then I had a German distributor tell me that if they don't want to sell to a customer they will stop responding.

 

[prestigetone]

I am sure that this is at least in part due to the low cardioid capability of the Geithains

Yes it is. The size of their woofer, and the coaxial nature of the designs isnt being done by anyone and that is what makes them unique. Coaxials exist but not concentric like that with a round cone. The soundstage is unlike anything else.

Dang, bummer, sorry. I would fully expect the Geithains to sound good given the ”low” cardioid. This is rare and the only manufactures doing this as far as I know is Soundfield and more recently GGNTKT with the new M3s. Almost all cardioid designs, including the 8C are cardioid only down to around 100Hz if I am not mistaken. I think Kii also goes only down to around 100Hz (even with the BXT)? Low cardioid is a fully different experience! And didn’t realize they also made their own drivers, that’s impressive.

Not just the drivers. The electronics and amps too. Watch the PSI tour and they do the same approach. They can have really tight quality controls because of the total supply chain being them. I think it also results in a more reliable robust system. Geithain and PSI offer serviceability that few can touch. PSI are a great company but much more geared toward the pro market.

I have heard mixed responses as to whether the cardioid matters down to that level.

 

[Pearljam5000]

So Geithains are better than Genelec Ones ?

 

[poopy]

Low cardioid is a fully different experience! And didn’t realize they also made their own drivers, that’s impressive.

Everything is made in-house, all drivers and cabinets. They also have cardioid subs. Main problems though are sourcing and customer service (and prices!)

 

[prestigetone]

So is Geithain better than Genelec Ones ?

For my money and the sound I like, without question. Geithain sends its employees out to live venues to hear how sound is reproduced. I have yet to find any company that has one foot in the consumer market and one foot in the professional market that is so beloved. Ask @Berlin what he thinks of his 901K. I haven't heard them but I know I would be set with those.

 

[Pearljam5000]

For my money and the sound I like, without question. Geithain sends its employees out to live venues to hear how sound is reproduced. I have yet to find any company that has one foot in the consumer market and one foot in the professional market that is so beloved. Ask @Berlin what he thinks of his 901K. I haven't heard them but I know I would be set with those.

I wish he would write a review about them
They look pretty cool

 

[prestigetone]

I wish he would write a review about them
They look pretty coolView attachment 352111

After having so many shipping hiccups, I would give the nod to Genelec for speakers that travel well. They seem to be paramount in terms of reliability. Aluminum cabinets sound really nice compared. to the durability of mdf. Everything is a compromise of some kind.

 

[poopy]

So Geithains are better than Genelec Ones ?

Different design. Different philosophy. Pros ans cons.

 

[poopy]

I wish he would write a review about them
They look pretty coolView attachment 352111

With 2 cardioid subs:

 

[prestigetone]

With 2 cardioid subs:

View attachment 352120

Now that is pretty impeccable. I was trying to think of where this set up was because I saw it on a German forum. I think he even did more than that eventually. Too much speaker for me would rather just move up to the 800K

 

[phoenixdogfan]

So what's Geithain's top speaker? I go to their page and I see a bewildering array of models. Which one is top of the line? How does it break out in terms of pricing? Performance tiers?

 

[poopy]

So what's Geithain's top speaker. I go to their page and I see a bewildering array of models. Which one is top of the line?

RL801K/RL901K for pro, ME 800K for hi-fi.

There is also a hi-fi version of the RL801K/RL901K, called ME 801K/ME 901K (or ME 801 K1/ME 901 K1 when the amp is in a separate fancy box)

 

[poopy]

Now that is pretty impeccable. I was trying to think of where this set up was because I saw it on a German forum. I think he even did more than that eventually. Too much speaker for me would rather just move up to the 800K

Possibly. The cardioid subs on the pic I attached are 14’’. The ME800K on that picture have 2x15’’ woofers.