JBL M2 Reference Master Monitor Review

[Pearljam5000]

You can build such loudspeakers DIY, spending 2k and make them more braced, more mass inside, more :drivers decoupled. 12.ooo dollars is a rip off. Make a frontal baffle 2 inches with gum and metal dampening. You won't regret it.

Is that sarcasm ?

 

[thewas]

Is that sarcasm ?

See one of such DIY approaches here:

JBL M2 Clone

I recently measured a JBL D2430K compression driver and M2 lens. My goal is to build an M2 clone. The speakers are going to go into individual boxes allowing me to stack the woofer and D2 into an M2, or even include a midrange. I got a pair of B&C 5NDL38 for cheap, and if they don't work I...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Pearljam5000]

See one of such DIY approaches here:

JBL M2 Clone

I recently measured a JBL D2430K compression driver and M2 lens. My goal is to build an M2 clone. The speakers are going to go into individual boxes allowing me to stack the woofer and D2 into an M2, or even include a midrange. I got a pair of B&C 5NDL38 for cheap, and if they don't work I...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thanks
But is it possible for DIY to reach the levels of a product made by JBL?
I doubt it
Why aren't there DIY Genelecs ?

 

[thewas]

Thanks
But is it possible for DIY to reach the levels of a product made by JBL?
I doubt it
Why aren't there DIY Genelecs ?

If you can get JBL drivers it is not a rocket science to copy its simple enclosure and crossover and such has been succesfully done already several times.

Two main reasons you don't often find DIY Genelecs clones, you can't get their drivers easily and also their rounded enclosures cannot be easily copied at hobby level DIY.

 

[Absolute]

Hardly perfect. The JBL M2 are a performance speaker and will benefit from a high power amp in the dynamic range.

Well, the AS1200 is pretty powerful, although not as powerful as the recommended Crown. Compared the Crown cdi1200 to the AS1200/Neurochrome combination and the latter was much preferred due to much lower noise and a somewhat smoother sounding treble.

YMMV of course.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Is there any reason to prefer 4367 over M2?

 

[stevenswall]

Genelec 8361 are $10K
M2 are $12K
So they seem like bargain considering their size
But the amps and DSP matching makes it complicated

Have you been able to hear both? With the Amps and DSP it seems like the 8361 is a much better value, but perhaps doesn't go quite as loud?

 

[fpitas]

Is there any reason to prefer 4367 over M2?

I think it looks cooler

 

[GXAlan]

Is there any reason to prefer 4367 over M2?

Cabling and convenience. With the M2 you need a BSS crossover or SDP-75 and enough amplifiers and individual cables to connect everything.

The 4367 comes very close to the M2 sound except for the horn geometry, looks nicer, and is simpler to integrate.

 

[fpitas]

The horns have very different polar patterns. The 4367 to my knowledge is the "standard" 90 x 40 degree pattern for radial horn monitors. The M2 is more like 100 x 100.

 

[MAB]

Thanks
But is it possible for DIY to reach the levels of a product made by JBL?
I doubt it
Why aren't there DIY Genelecs ?

You should build a pair, you will stop doubting in about 10 seconds after first listen. The M2 are trivial to build. The Harman DSP is directly copy-able, and can be implemented on higher performing DSP and amps, for way less money. Not trying to be harsh, but you have fantasized about aluminum and exotics too much, and it likely has clouded your judgement on how these things come to be... Oddly, it is one of the easiest commercial speakers to copy. And they are as good as I could ever imagine.

I need to post a better Spin than in my original post (the mic was too close). But they do measure like Erin's. I don't have a factory M2 to compare to, and my various experiences listening are just anecdotal experiences. The 4367 is also an incredible speaker, but is more difficult to build, and parts are not available.

You can even build a less resonant and better braced cabinet than JBL's, which is a fine cabinet but extremely straightforward to copy. And you could have a welder fabricate aluminum cabinets and still come well below JBL's prices. Aluminum is cheap, welding is moderately expensive, but machining is ultra-expensive (Magico). Probably not going to make one iota of difference, but you could do any of these things... If you go the Magico route, on top of the absurd machining cost you need lots of thread-locking compound.

You can even try to outsmart the M2 design and randomly try to build it a three-way. It doesn't work but I had the drivers and was waiting for the woofers.

I have a pair of 8361A, no way I would ever consider DIY these! I've tried to tell you this before, Genelec use aluminum because it is the most effective way to make the forms that they need for their application. The forms are the innovation that enables their sound, not the material!!! And no way I can realistically reproduce these forms. Maybe bent-ply, like those master-craftsmen from a bygone era could do it in wood. Carbon fiber? And I don't have access to their filter-files for DSP.

 

[Pearljam5000]

You should build a pair, you will stop doubting in about 10 seconds after first listen. The M2 are trivial to build. The Harman DSP is directly copy-able, and can be implemented on higher performing DSP and amps, for way less money. Not trying to be harsh, but you have fantasized about aluminum and exotics too much, and it likely has clouded your judgement on how these things come to be... Oddly, it is one of the easiest commercial speakers to copy. And they are as good as I could ever imagine.

I need to post a better Spin than in my original post (the mic was too close). But they do measure like Erin's. I don't have a factory M2 to compare to, and my various experiences listening are just anecdotal experiences. The 4367 is also an incredible speaker, but is more difficult to build, and parts are not available.

You can even build a less resonant and better braced cabinet than JBL's, which is a fine cabinet but extremely straightforward to copy. And you could have a welder fabricate aluminum cabinets and still come well below JBL's prices. Aluminum is cheap, welding is moderately expensive, but machining is ultra-expensive (Magico). Probably not going to make one penny of difference, but you could do any of these things... If you go the Magico route, on top of the absurd machining cost you need lots of thread-locking compound.

You can even try to outsmart the M2 design and randomly try to build it a three-way. It doesn't work but I had the drivers and was waiting for the woofers.

I have a pair of 8361A, no way I would ever consider DIY these! I've tried to tell you this before, Genelec use aluminum because it is the most effective way to make the forms that they need for their application. The forms are the innovation that enables their sound, not the material!!! And no way I can realistically reproduce these forms. Maybe bent-ply, like those master-craftsmen from a bygone era could do it in wood. Carbon fiber? And I don't have access to their filter-files for DSP.

Great info thanks

 

[Pearljam5000]

You should build a pair, you will stop doubting in about 10 seconds after first listen. The M2 are trivial to build. The Harman DSP is directly copy-able, and can be implemented on higher performing DSP and amps, for way less money. Not trying to be harsh, but you have fantasized about aluminum and exotics too much, and it likely has clouded your judgement on how these things come to be... Oddly, it is one of the easiest commercial speakers to copy. And they are as good as I could ever imagine.

I need to post a better Spin than in my original post (the mic was too close). But they do measure like Erin's. I don't have a factory M2 to compare to, and my various experiences listening are just anecdotal experiences. The 4367 is also an incredible speaker, but is more difficult to build, and parts are not available.

You can even build a less resonant and better braced cabinet than JBL's, which is a fine cabinet but extremely straightforward to copy. And you could have a welder fabricate aluminum cabinets and still come well below JBL's prices. Aluminum is cheap, welding is moderately expensive, but machining is ultra-expensive (Magico). Probably not going to make one iota of difference, but you could do any of these things... If you go the Magico route, on top of the absurd machining cost you need lots of thread-locking compound.

You can even try to outsmart the M2 design and randomly try to build it a three-way. It doesn't work but I had the drivers and was waiting for the woofers.

I have a pair of 8361A, no way I would ever consider DIY these! I've tried to tell you this before, Genelec use aluminum because it is the most effective way to make the forms that they need for their application. The forms are the innovation that enables their sound, not the material!!! And no way I can realistically reproduce these forms. Maybe bent-ply, like those master-craftsmen from a bygone era could do it in wood. Carbon fiber? And I don't have access to their filter-files for DSP.

Can you compare the clone M2 with 8361?
How big is the difference between the 15 inch and the (about) " 10 inch of the 8361?
Does the 8361 sound much smaller in comparison ? thanks

 

[MAB]

Can you compare the clone M2 with 8361?
How big is the difference between the 15 inch and the (about) " 10 inch of the 8361?
Does the 8361 sound much smaller in comparison ? thanks

I never know how to answer these types of questions. Both sound big compared to no-speakers. Neither is going to make a spouse or pet with great hearing believe that a band is in my house. Both sound pretty much like the recording I am playing though. Neither produces fatigue, but no-speakers share that property (OK, I'll stop before the mods step in...)

I listen to the M2 way more these days, but that is probably because I built them and I can't control my ego. The bass differences are similar to what you can tell from the measurements; the M2 is not a bass-monster, I am not missing much but subwoofers are a future project. Soundstage and imaging is in our imaginations and both speakers seem to do the imperfect thing called 'stereo' very well, I can adequately fool myself that things are arrayed throughout the room. My room needs more work than these speakers...

These are both the type of speakers that if someone says they have a problem with the sound, it's not really the speakers. That person is looking for a type of enchantment that doesn't exist in stereo reproduction. Or has a problem and can't or won't use methods like room placement, treatment, DSP.

 

[changer]

The 4367 is also an incredible speaker, but is more difficult to build, and parts are not available.

Over at the audioheritage forum member sebackman recently kind of finished his 2021 started 4367 DiY project:

4367 Cabinet - Page 4

Dear all, I'm looking for the the cabinet data and port dimensions for the 4367. We have excellent data for the M2 and even CAD files out there, but I have not seen such data for the 4367. I'm planning to build a pair but flirting a bit with the old L300 design (slanting front and glass...

www.audioheritage.org

Even a cubical enclosure that could please your aesthetic desires, @Pearljam5000, is serious work. Even if you get the sheets manufactured by a pro, there is assembly and finish. To DiY the Genelec enclosure would me more costly than buying the product.

 

[MKR]

@Pearljam5000 Why Genelec or JBL? For about $13k you can go with the D&D 8C that will at least equal performance of 8361+371 (about $30k). Similar comment for M2, though I am sure 8C cannot match output of M2. But unless you have a giant room, 8C more than sufficient.

 

[bodhi]

@Pearljam5000 Why Genelec or JBL? For about $13k you can go with the D&D 8C that will at least equal performance of 8361+371 (about $30k). Similar comment for M2, though I am sure 8C cannot match output of M2. But unless you have a giant room, 8C more than sufficient.

The price doesn't matter if you aren't going to be buying anything at all.

 

[MAB]

@Pearljam5000 Why Genelec or JBL? For about $13k you can go with the D&D 8C that will at least equal performance of 8361+371 (about $30k). Similar comment for M2, though I am sure 8C cannot match output of M2. But unless you have a giant room, 8C more than sufficient.

I can't take the output of my M2 for more than a few seconds, or with earplugs in.
I bet I would fall in love with a pair of 8C too.
Then I would hear a pair of GGNTKT, and I would fall in love a first sight, but then I would forget the name (Mulva, Vulva, )

 

[MKR]

The price doesn't matter if you aren't going to be buying anything at all.

PJ might purchase something someday, never lose hope … heck, I ain’t no better, I am full of hot air, been on my endgame quest now for over one year! But I am getting closer! (yeah, sure I am)

 

[Pearljam5000]

PJ might purchase something someday, never lose hope … heck, I ain’t no better, I am full of hot air, been on my endgame quest now for over one year! But I am getting closer! (yeah, sure I am)

I'm buying these....
when I can afford them