Proposal: Right to Fair Review (RFR) Association

[amirm]

I have no claim in your battle. But with the benefit of considerable experience in bringing products to market, testing, marketing, approvals and legislation you need to appreciate the following below.

You do know that I have 40+ years or product development, marketing, business development, PR, etc. yes? I have been on the other side of this having had reviewers so in the pocket of my competitor that I could not tell one from the other! Did I go cry victim or threaten to sue said reviewer? No. We razor focused on the things he was complaining about and over a couple of releases, nailed them all, making them change stance and give us raving reviews and no longer act so biased.

 

[Drengur]

You make it sound like these are mysterious products that take a lot of work and analysis to figure out their function.

This is the exact reason we, the consumers, need more objective testing of audio products and reviewers need to be free from direct and indirect influences from the manufacturers. There are generations of audiophiles who look up to the traditional sycophantic reviewers and see the words of manufacturers as gospel, believing that audio reproduction is magic and only true masters of audio wizardry are able to combine industrially manufactured components into products that are able to tap into the æther of audio nirvana.

 

[CedarX]

This is the exact reason we, the consumers, need more subjective testing of audio products and reviewers need to be free from direct and indirect influences from the manufacturers. There are generations of audiophiles who look up to the traditional sycophantic reviewers and see the words of manufacturers as gospel, believing that audio reproduction is magic and only true masters of audio wizardry are able to combine industrially manufactured components into products that are able to tap into the æther of audio nirvana.

Subjective ???? I think we need more objective testing, with some clearly delineated subjective opinions.

 

[Drengur]

Subjective ????

Fixed, thanks.

 

[stjernholmreviews]

Just my 50 cents to a really important, open conversation.

Amir, the very thing you propose makes me cry inside. This is exactly how to make life complicated, IMO

Second, the power of reviewers can not be understated. WE are doing the manufactures a favour, NOT the other way around.
Never forget that!

The issue here, only rises with objective reviews, where you can adhere to different sets of standards and current knowledge: data obtained in one way or the other. But again, - this has ALWAYS been a issue with technical measurements! Watt measurements alone... wild west, right? How often do you see a manufacturer publish (and in some cases, even DO) measurements in full on their products? So where is the line?

I cant even get simple SPL measurements sometimes, and the manufacturers take all kinds of liberties when it comes to the objective data...

Any objective reviewer like Erin or Amir simply just adhere to THEIR OWN standards, and test equipment with their own standard.

For the consumer, this is still valuable, as they can compare products from a wide range of manufactures compared to the same standard, in this case Erins, some of witch might be simple observations or even feelings. In fact, you should make money, offering the manufactures to publish the Amir specs or the Erin specs. I am sure,if you both tested the same speaker, the results would not necessarily be precisely the same anyway, thus talking about your findings, your way - being very valuable for consumers, as you use the same method for all the products.

WITH THE HEAT, that "Me. Tekton" got from him being a un-kind smart-ass, I think that the only association we need as reviewers, will be to stand together and pledge: "if you do something like this to one, you do to all". Like a "reviewer NATO". We can setup some rules for integrity to pride ourselves by, - and besides that, we reviewers call each other out all the time. Thats how balance in the universe is achieved & the most truthful are promoted.

Keep it simple. We stand by Erin. This is a one-off, and reviewers should never fear to share their subjective or objective findings.

I call out if I am being ghosted over sharing negative experiences with a product, and I dont mind telling viewers when I cant get a product for review, (for exsample when the manufacturer wants to control the narrative and I wont accept that). So should everybody IMO. I play with a thing called MHGAM (Make Hifi Great Again Movement) for fun, where I want to celebrate & highlight manufactures, resellers and distributors that support honest reviews, "letting come what may" with no retaliation. Accepting that people are different and will have different experiences and views. By supporting that, consumers can choose to support those that support honest reviews. I also believe that manufactures should have the right to respond in any case in full, if they thing we are factually & objectively wrong.

Test by the Audio science review standard, own it, - instead of thinking about legal defence. ANY vendor that does something remotely like tekton in the future will be in a world of pain. Erin did right in calling it. Tekton just discovered that, and they have no clue how much damage they all by themselves did to their brand, treating a independent reviewer like that. Thats where it broke, thinking that they can boss around a respected reviewer with so many speaker reviews under his belt. It happened, when they could not show basic respect for the work he does.

Lessons learned for the whole industry, IMO.



Kind Regards,

Morten Stjernholm,

Stjernholm Reviews

My stuff

 

[jkorten]

I am in the medical device industry. There is a company famous for suing its customers to enforce rarely read supplier contracts and as well sues other companies and earns most of it's money that way. They purchased a very famous speaker company thinking they'd get into home patient monitoring that way (started shareholder activism on a large scale). I'm betting this is the company that is threatening to sue you over a bookshelf speaker review.

 

[Steve H]

Just my 50 cents to a really important, open conversation.

Amir, the very thing you propose makes me cry inside. This is exactly how to make life complicated, IMO

Second, the power of reviewers can not be understated. WE are doing the manufactures a favour, NOT the other way around.
Never forget that!

The issue here, only rises with objective reviews, where you can adhere to different sets of standards and current knowledge: data obtained in one way or the other. But again, - this has ALWAYS been a issue with technical measurements! Watt measurements alone... wild west, right? How often do you see a manufacturer publish (and in some cases, even DO) measurements in full on their products? So where is the line?

I cant even get simple SPL measurements sometimes, and the manufacturers take all kinds of liberties when it comes to the objective data...

Any objective reviewer like Erin or Amir simply just adhere to THEIR OWN standards, and test equipment with their own standard.

For the consumer, this is still valuable, as they can compare products from a wide range of manufactures compared to the same standard, in this case Erins, some of witch might be simple observations or even feelings. In fact, you should make money, offering the manufactures to publish the Amir specs or the Erin specs. I am sure,if you both tested the same speaker, the results would not necessarily be precisely the same anyway, thus talking about your findings, your way - being very valuable for consumers, as you use the same method for all the products.

WITH THE HEAT, that "Tekton shootingmyownfootmanwitha70mmround" got from him being a un-kind smart-ass, I think that the only association we need as reviewers, will be to stand together and pledge: "if you do something like this to one, you do to all". Like a "reviewer NATO". We can setup some rules for integrity to pride ourselves by, - and besides that, we reviewers call each other out all the time. Thats how balance in the universe is achieved & the most truthful are promoted.

Keep it simple. We stand by Erin. This is a one-off, and reviewers should never fear that they do not hold the power.

I call out if I am being ghosted and I dont mind telling viewers when I cant get a product for review, (for exsample when the manufacturer wants to control the narrative and I wont accept that). So should everybody IMO. I play with a thing called MHGAM (Make Hifi Great Again Movement) for fun, where I want to celebrate & highlight manufactures, resellers and distributors that support honest reviews, "letting come what may" with no retaliation. Accepting that people are different and will have different experiences and views. By supporting that, consumers can choose to support those that support honest reviews. I also believe that manufactures should have the right to respond in any case in full, if they thing we are factually & objectively wrong.

Test by the Audio science review standard, own it, - instead of thinking about legal defence. ANY vendor that does something remotely like tekton in the future will be in a world of pain. Erin did right in calling it. Tekton just discovered that, and they have no clue how much damage they all by themselves did to their brand, treating a independent reviewer like that. Thats where it broke, thinking that they can boss around a respected reviewer with so many speaker reviews under his belt. It happened, when they could not show basic respect for the work he does.

Lessons learned for the whole industry, IMO.



Kind Regards,

Morten Stjernholm,

Stjernholm Reviews

My stuff

Morton,

Why you should be ghosted.

• Reviewers should have no power. The last few years have shown their judgment is just not good enough.
• Reviews are simply an extension of companies marketing programs.
• If you can’t measure the SPL of a speaker, you shouldn’t be a reviewer. Wherever the line is on measurements you are on the wrong side of it.
• The old measures would differ argument. Are you really saying if Amir, Erin and Redrock Acoustic measured the same speaker the measurements would differ?

Now two personal objections to your post. Reviewers calling each other out? I’ve told many reviewers the hobby and the industry would be better off without you face to face. Give me some examples of anything close. And finally, I live in the wild west you would not last long out here.

 

[stjernholmreviews]

Morton,

Why you should be ghosted.

• Reviewers should have no power. The last few years have shown their judgment is just not good enough.

Should manufactures? Your judgement is as good as anybody's. So who are you to judge? Reviewers from all their different angles create perspective for you as a consumer. Or is it only your own perspective that goes? Is there a Steve H exam for reviewers to take? ;-)

• Reviews are simply an extension of companies marketing programs.

What a interesting statement. Are you a reviewer? Of Course there can be some truth to this, but if you believe this is the whole truth (especially when you present it as a statement) you are running a fools errand. My suggestion to honor manufactures admitting to "let come what may" and call out when they are not is a part of working against that very thing. But you did not catch that, did you?

• If you can’t measure the SPL of a speaker, you shouldn’t be a reviewer. Wherever the line is on measurements you are on the wrong side of it.

You are not getting the point. I am talking about manufactures NOT disclosing data. Thats why we need people like Erin and Amir doing what they do. And WHEN they have data, they might not even be using the same measurement methods. Even more reason for independent measurements. You seem so busy trying to discredit reviewers, that you are being ignorant of what is being said here.

• The old measures would differ argument. Are you really saying if Amir, Erin and Redrock Acoustic measured the same speaker the measurements would differ?

Yes, as they might use different standards , has different conditions and so on just like the industry that (as an example) can measure watt with any distortion percentage, for any kind of distortion, for any period of time with any type of signal in any kind of load and then pass on the result to the consumer.

No matter what, I argue that consistent testing, doing it the same way every time, create a valuable comparison base created by people such as Erin & Amir. Its great. A manufacturer like tekton could attack any reviewer if they felt they got a unfavourable review, and call all kinds of BS in regards to measurements, no matter who made them. But comparisons made to the reviewers standard can always be compared, even if they are not following a official standard. The important thing here being consistency in comparisons. Now, you did not take any time to know anything about me, or observe what I am doing, before your personal attacks ;-) , so you have no clue how that might apply to me, a subjective reviewer, with a practical, objective approach.

Now two personal objections to your post. Reviewers calling each other out? I’ve told many reviewers the hobby and the industry would be better off without you face to face. Give me some examples of anything close. And finally, I live in the wild west you would not last long out here.

Yes. (Depends on your platform of course) Youtube reviewers often comment on reviews being made, and bring their own perspective to a matter. Thats how consumers can get multiple takes on sound experiences in different rooms for example, or through the ears of different musical styles. Knowing your reviewer, makes it easier to apply their findings to yourself and your own wishes.

And please do add some more perspective on your wild west experience. It was given as a expression of "when it comes to measurements, anybody sets their own stadards more or less". In regards to your "you should be ghosted" comment, please expand further on why, as you dont ask about the circumstances, but simply make a statement of no intelligent value.

Who are you, Steve H? and rather more interesting, what are YOUR solutions in this matter about Mr. Erin, where a manufacturer threatens a reviewer, that has been doing consistent work in a controlling, disrespectful way, other than defaming all reviewers?

 

[amirm]

Please keep the comments focused on the topic. Generic arguments about measurements should go elsewhere/dedicated thread.

 

[Karmacoma]

Brilliant.

 

[Steve H]

Please keep the comments focused on the topic. Generic arguments about measurements should go elsewhere/dedicated thread.

Amir you were up early. So, staying on topic. I disagree with the idea of creating a group for reviewers. It is unnecessary. There are simpler solutions, one is disclosure. You and Erin made a mistake by not immediately posting the emails. Let the firestorm of criticism happen immediately. Send a message that actions like Eric Alexander’s threats have consequences starting with lost business and possibly going out of business.

The part of your proposal that does have merit is education. You are a limited purpose public figure. We should educate people about the defenses that go with this status.

You should kiss and make up with Joe Whip and we should put something together.

 

[amirm]

You should kiss and make up with Joe Whip and we should put something together.

Who is Joe Whip???

 

[amirm]

You and Erin made a mistake by not immediately posting the emails. Let the firestorm of criticism happen immediately.

You do you when you get such threats, and I do the same. In this case, I wanted to get the information from Mr. Alexander on what was wrong with my review. Maybe he was right in which case, I wanted to know that instead of creating said firestorm. What is fair is fair. If I made a mistake, I wanted to know and deal with it. Yes, by the third week it was clear he was not going to deliver but I still wanted to act professionally and keep the exchange private. Then he decided to publicize it and go after Erin at which point, I disclosed the emails as to remove doubt about his intentions.

Erin is out of his jam because we managed to get him legal consultation. It was that which gave him the strong backbone to fight back. Sending him a link to read wouldn't have done that when the other side is threatening to sue him any minute.

 

[Steve H]

You do you when you get such threats, and I do the same. In this case, I wanted to get the information from Mr. Alexander on what was wrong with my review. Maybe he was right in which case, I wanted to know that instead of creating said firestorm. What is fair is fair. If I made a mistake, I wanted to know and deal with it. Yes, by the third week it was clear he was not going to deliver but I still wanted to act professionally and keep the exchange private. Then he decided to publicize it and go after Erin at which point, I disclosed the emails as to remove doubt about his intentions.

Erin is out of his jam because we managed to get him legal consultation. It was that which gave him the strong backbone to fight back. Sending him a link to read wouldn't have done that when the other side is threatening to sue him any minute.

You wanted to act professionally, the way people me like act. I was threatened with litigation every time I changed employers over noncompete agreements. If we had all kept quiet about employers intimidating us, we would not have won total victory yesterday over noncompete agreements.

The way you stop people from using the threat of litigation is to call attention to the threat.

Intimidation is unfortunately a common tactic in the small business world. I haven’t been sued yet telling people I’ve been threatened by employers and an audit client who violated HUD rules. Or developers over land use issues, Or tax shelter and conservation easement promotors.

Had you posted the email when received it, Eric would have received a lot of negative feedback, but it would have been just another ASR dustup with a manufacturer. And blown over. By waiting he was emboldened to go after Erin. Now here we are.

If you know John Atkinson, his measurement commentary was worse than yours. I had dinner with John after the Los Angeles and Orange County Audio Society’s Annual Gala last December. We talked about measurements, and he said he was jealous of you for having a Klippel. Is it coincidence Eric went after reviewers with a Klippel?

 

[ChalupaRiddems]

Check out Newguard’s publication scoring system https://www.newsguardtech.com/ratings/rating-process-criteria/

 

[rxp]

A journalist had MKBHD on her channel on recent threats he had on a bad review:

I posted a comment on Amir's right to fair review association. Would be great to get someone like MKBHD onboard.

 

[amirm]

Had you posted the email when received it, Eric would have received a lot of negative feedback, but it would have been just another ASR dustup with a manufacturer. And blown over. By waiting he was emboldened to go after Erin. Now here we are.

Pretty sure if I had post that email, Erin would NOT have posted his review. He would have been scared purple of testing anything he had as to face the same thing I had.

 

[artismo]

With Steve’s known justifiable doxxing of companies (recently EKB and Linus Tech Tips), I suspect he and his Gamer’s Nexus company would be a good place to make contact.

Linus and Linus Media (though their controversial history and recent fiasco with Gamer’s Nexus and Steve might be a deterrent, I’m sure they would have some meaningful input if you reached out) would be another place to touch base.

Marques Brownlee also comes to mind. He recently shit on a $700 AI pin which requires a $24 an month subscription to use. He’s faced tremendous backlash for his scathing review (it was justifiably scathing to many), and with as large as his channel is and the amount of reviews he’s done, I would suspect he has some meaningful information and legal contacts.

 

[amirm]

He recently shit on a $700 AI pin which requires a $24 an month subscription to use.

I looked into that AI thing before he did this video and thought it was a horrible idea!

 

[amirm]

I don't think we need others to get started. There are plenty of us and resources right here. I do need a leader to take it on though. If you are interested, please contact me via private message.