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JBL HDI-1600 Speaker Review

Bear123

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Did I see somewhere that an HDI tower is planning to be tested as well? Or the center? Really curious to see how JBL managed the wide, four driver center channel in terms of off axis response and lobing. Revel did a great job with their 2 way MTM such as the C25. I assume the JBL 4500 center will be a 2.5 way with the four woofers playing different frequencies to reduce lobing, will be interesting to see how effective it is. One would assume such a design is capable of performing well considering Revels newest, most expensive center channel in the Be lineup uses four woofers.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Thread Starter #182
I didn't think absorbing 1st reflections was the issue?
It was but regardless, that was the background story. The real story today is that based on those types of designs and lay intuition that "reflections must be like echos," it has become the norm in many forums to tell people to a) run ETC and b) find anything that spikes in there and put an absorber on it. It starts with left and right walls. Then the floor. Then the ceiling. Then the wall behind you. Then the front wall. Then the lamp next to you. Then the shoes you are wearing, on and on. :)

Placebo effect and chasing graphs causes them to build completely dead and ugly rooms by the time they are done. Then watch some of them come back a year later and say, "I ripped out everything and the sound was so much better!"

Ask any professional acoustician their number one pet peeve and it is an audiophile who has strapped these panels everywhere as above.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Thread Starter #183
Did I see somewhere that an HDI tower is planning to be tested as well?
Originally yes but the owner decided to get the 1600 for testing before jumping both feet. He is planning on getting the towers now so if that happens, I will be testing them.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Thread Starter #184
Peter D'Antonio (of RPG) created the Reflection Free Zone model, which is in effect a geometric way to achieve the LEDE response.
Yet he doesn't advocate anything you say today. Localhost, you and I have discussed all of this across months on AVS Forum. This is a review thread. Please don't pollute it with your comments which I have answered repeatedly then to you. You can post them here if you like: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/perceptual-effects-of-room-reflections.13/

Dr. D'Antonio actually contacted me post publication of that article, saying how much he liked it, and sharing the same complaint I have about stuff you post. So don't think he is your friend in this argument. He is not. See this presentation he made which I shared with you before: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...y-theory-without-measurement.7127/post-172075
 

Sal1950

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@amirm , I was very excited to see the 1600 do so well in it's measurement. My only personal disappointment was in the sensitivity rating that I had to go to JBL for. JBL rates the speaker at,
"Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1M): 85dB"
which surprised me since the all the larger and center HDI models are rated at either 90 or 92 db? Don't know why they lost so much in the 1600? I any case can you figure from your measurements what the sensitivity looks like to you?
I really wish you would post sensitivity ratings in the same manner in which all the manufacturers and other testers do for comparison.
I know most of them like to exaggerate the posted numbers since many buyers find them important.
I would hate to purchase these only to find out I'd need 3 new amps to drive them. :(
TIA
 
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amirm

amirm

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Thread Starter #187
I really wish you would post sensitivity ratings in the same manner in which all the manufacturers and other testers do for comparison.
Sensitivity is in every review. It is the on-axis graph:



Yes, it varies by frequency and manufactures play any game they like to arrive at their number. 85 certainly fits my measurements as I have drawn the line there already. :)

Someone can take the spin data and create a single metric if we can agree what that should be (1 kHz, average, etc.).
 

Sal1950

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As for a single metric, sensitivity is one of those things IMO best determined using the "eyeball by someone who knows what they're doing" method.
Sure, but what about the people that don't know what their doing? :)

Sensitivity is in every review. It is the on-axis graph:
Where does it say Sensitivity = X?
Amir, Please pick a "metric" and publish it in the review for folks without a EE degree to relate to?
If it's all "inthere" why not do things in ways people across the board understand? IE, whats wrong with 20-20kHZ in that graph like the rest of the layman media, instead of 103 ? LOL
If the site is to reach people without tech background, we need to do at least a few of the basic things in ways folks have at least learned to understand over the years.
TIA
 

Sal1950

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Someone can take the spin data and create a single metric if we can agree what that should be (1 kHz, average, etc.).
PS, I hope your not saying to bury it in the spin data file? You'll frighten 98% of your Joe Sixpack visitors away if you expect them open that zip file and go digging in it just to find out how speaker X compares to his Y. o_O
 

tuga

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Sure, but what about the people that don't know what their doing? :)


Where does it say Sensitivity = X?
Amir, Please pick a "metric" and publish it in the review for folks without a EE degree to relate to?
If it's all "inthere" why not do things in ways people across the board understand? IE, whats wrong with 20-20kHZ in that graph like the rest of the layman media, instead of 103 ? LOL
If the site is to reach people without tech background, we need to do at least a few of the basic things in ways folks have at least learned to understand over the years.
TIA
Look where the FR curve hits 1kHz.
 

Sal1950

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Look where the FR curve hits 1kHz.
What part of this "Where does it say Sensitivity = X?" don't your understand?
I'm pretty sure everyone else does.
 

Dj7675

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Sensitivity is in every review. It is the on-axis graph:



Yes, it varies by frequency and manufactures play any game they like to arrive at their number. 85 certainly fits my measurements as I have drawn the line there already. :)

Someone can take the spin data and create a single metric if we can agree what that should be (1 kHz, average, etc.).
Appreciate the question being asked. Now I know where to look :)
 
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amirm

amirm

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Thread Starter #195
LOL... was below what you mean, yellow is avarage.
No, I meant the on-axis response. There are different schemes for summing that to compute a single average to report as speaker sensitivity.
 

MZKM

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No, I meant the on-axis response. There are different schemes for summing that to compute a single average to report as speaker sensitivity.
Yeah, I use the average from 300Hz-3kHz, for no other reason that it’s what SoundStage/NRC uses.
 

jhaider

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Where does it say Sensitivity = X?
The drive level is 2.83V, so "sensitivity" is the value on the y-axis where you think is about the average value of the on axis (or listening window, doesn't really matter) response.

Note this only works for passive speakers. But sensitivity is irrelevant in active speakers.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Thread Starter #198
Yeah, I use the average from 300Hz-3kHz, for no other reason that it’s what SoundStage/NRC uses.
So do you want to compute that and post it with your preference scores?
 

Sal1950

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Hint Hint
"PSB specifies the Alpha P5's sensitivity as 87dB, presumably for 2.83V drive at 1m. My estimate was a little lower, at 85dB(B)/2.83V/m."
John Atkinson
Stereophile Oct 2019
 
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