JBL HDI-1600 Speaker Review

[BYRTT]

Interesting! Flattening the curve (in the listening window context, not the other, non-audio context) only seems to shift around the bumps and dips in the PIR. From numbers alone, this is one speaker to just leave alone.

Target a smooth on axis is told in most literature, but think we can see below that for this one target LW will benefit most and on axis is still very smooth ...

 

[tecnogadget]

Feeling stupid for asking ...but what does the “LW” stand for ??

 

[Dj7675]

Feeling stupid for asking ...but what does the “LW” stand for ??

It made me think a bit too... Listening Window I believe

 

[dinglehoser]

It made me think a bit too... Listening Window I believe

You got it! Not dumb at all. Acronyms suck, and yet ...

 

[Music1969]

So don't go chasing myths on the Internet to absorb reflections.

Hi @amirm , can you expand on this part quoted?

 

[amirm]

Hi @amirm , can you expand on this part quoted?

Going back to 1970s style of mixing/master studios where all reflections were considered to be "bad," people have built some kind of online consensus that you need to go and "find all first reflections and absorb them." This is counter to research that indicates that side reflections can be beneficial. And that if you put too much absorption in a room, it can be come quite "dead" and dull sounding. With well designed speakers, reflections have similar tonality to direct sound and help reinforce that sound. This improves such things as speech intelligibility.

 

[Music1969]

With well designed speakers, reflections have similar tonality to direct sound and help reinforce that sound.

Is this essentially speakers with better directivity? Narrower horizontal dispersion?

Or do you mean there is an optimal range for horizontal dispersion?

 

[amirm]

Is this essentially speakers with better directivity? Narrower horizontal dispersion?

Or do you mean there is an optimal range for horizontal dispersion?

Better directivity (similar frequency response without dips around crossover for example). Whether it is narrow or not, is for another topic.

 

[YSDR]

Hmm, here we go again, the lower-treble/upper-midrange distortion peak of the alu cone from Harman. This slowly becomes a house sound if it's audible. But we don't know it's audible or not, because it's not possible to remove that peak from that speaker and compare.
After all, I’m saying a speaker should never have a bigger fault than that and then we’re good (or not ).

 

[tuga]

This improves such things as speech intelligibility.

Is the available research focusing on live speech or stereo-reproduced speech?

 

[QMuse]

Hmm, here we go again, the lower-treble/upper-midrange distortion peak of the alu cone from Harman. This slowly becomes a house sound if it's audible. But we don't know it's audible or not, because it's not possible to remove that peak from that speaker and compare.
After all, I’m saying a speaker should never have a bigger fault than that and then we’re good (or not ).

That distortion peak consists only of 2nd harmonic so it will sound much less offending than it looks.

 

[napilopez]

Is the available research focusing on live speech or stereo-reproduced speech?

I'm not so sure about studies using stereo specifically, but at least speakers were used to replicate speech in some of them (there seem to be quite a few)

One of them, for example used 8 speakers to simulate early reflections in an anrchoic chamber, with one of the speakers being the 'speech' speaker.

(Bradley, Sato 2003)

And while not quite a study of stereo reproduction, this other study did test whether early reflections helping speech intelligibility was a binaural effect by 'muting' one ear with an IEM and some noise in some of the listening tests. It didn't find a significant difference; increased presence of early reflections helped speech intelligibility the same amount whether with one ear or two.

Arweiler et Al 2009 (PDF)

It also contains a good summary of some of the research so far, including the Bradley study which it follows up.

 

[vavan]

As I listen to music, I collect tracks that sound incredible, jaw-droppingly good. When I play them on different speakers, some speakers present that same feeling with majority of the tracks. Others, do the opposite

Please make tidal playlist with your test tracks

 

[YSDR]

That distortion peak consists only of 2nd harmonic so it will sound much less offending than it looks.

Ahh I see, my bad. The 2nd and 3rd harmonic colors are very close, at least from distance. Sorry!

 

[StevenEleven]

Indeed, a fundamental at 250Hz is around the middle of the piano keyboard. In the sort of music I listen to it is around the middle of the spectrum and whilst There is information higher up, and it is needed, it is at pretty low level.
I put on a favourite piece to clarify it in my mind and the majority of the sound is below 2kHz and is indeed rather centred on 250Hzish. Above 2kHz the level is always about 40dB lower than where the "music" is often much less.

What you say is a true fact! 2 kHz is at about (just shy of) C three octaves above middle C, as you very likely know. Although as I recall you play bass. 2 khz pretty high up there but still a discernible and useful pitch. However, it’s also worth noting that our hearing is extremely sensitive in that area (& even more the next octave up), as I understand it in significant part because of how our ear canal is shaped, and there are a lot of harmonics of fundamentals up there, resulting in how we interpret timbre as opposed to pitch. So I think it’s still a pretty critical area for loudspeaker performance as far as fidelity goes. But I am very certainly not an expert.

 

[Frank Dernie]

What you say is a true fact! 2 kHz is at about (just shy of) C three octaves above middle C, as you very likely know. Although as I recall you play bass. 2 khz pretty high up there but still a discernible and useful pitch. However, it’s also worth noting that our hearing is extremely sensitive in that area (& even more the next octave up), as I understand it in significant part because of how our ear canal is shaped, and there are a lot of harmonics of fundamentals up there, resulting in how we interpret timbre as opposed to pitch. So I think it’s still a pretty critical area for loudspeaker performance as far as fidelity goes. But I am very certainly not an expert.

Oh yes, the ear is sensitive at human scream frequencies!
I am not meaning higher frequencies are not very important, they are but we seem to get far too hung up on them and yet it is where the "brightness" and "air" is, not the bulk of the fundamental music!
Performance around 250 Hz seems to me it should be the most critical for music.

 

[amirm]

Is the available research focusing on live speech or stereo-reproduced speech?

Yes for both. Former focus is education (children understanding teachers). Here is an example I had saved for a similar discussion elsewhere:

 

[tuga]

Hmm, here we go again, the lower-treble/upper-midrange distortion peak of the alu cone from Harman. This slowly becomes a house sound if it's audible. But we don't know it's audible or not, because it's not possible to remove that peak from that speaker and compare.
After all, I’m saying a speaker should never have a bigger fault than that and then we’re good (or not ).

The first track of this album is a good test:

Yes for both. Former focus is education (children understanding teachers). Here is an example I had saved for a similar discussion elsewhere:

View attachment 58358

I see what you mean now.
I worked in a few undergraduate classrooms building projects mostly in the 90s, these are fairly large rooms where the goal is to maintain intelligibility over the whole room without the teacher having to strain her/his voice.

 

[Music1969]

Going back to 1970s style of mixing/master studios where all reflections were considered to be "bad," people have built some kind of online consensus that you need to go and "find all first reflections and absorb them." This is counter to research that indicates that side reflections can be beneficial. And that if you put too much absorption in a room, it can be come quite "dead" and dull sounding.

I didn't think absorbing 1st reflections was the issue?

I thought it's when you go beyond that, that the room deadening things starts to happen?

But I guess it's too hard to generalise these things as room sizes come in so many different shapes + sizes + contents (hard and soft stuff inside the room)

 

[tecnogadget]

I didn't think absorbing 1st reflections was the issue?

I thought it's when you go beyond that, that the room deadening things starts to happen?

But I guess it's too hard to generalise these things as room sizes come in so many different shapes + sizes + contents (hard and soft stuff inside the room)

You are right. I mean, turning your listening position into a Reflection Free Zone should not be detrimental at all, as long as you know what you are doing and not placing indiscriminate absorption.

Choosing the correct type of absorption solution to address the correct frequency range while measuring the results should be valid and IMHO better than not doing it. Doing it in such way won’t yield to a dry room.