JBL HDI-1600 Speaker Review

[TimVG]

The response trend is closer to the LSR70x than the Revel stuff. Still contestable as to which directivity trend is preferable.

Many of the visual differences are in some cases also due to the vertical dispersion (in the spinorama curves). If we focus on the, arguably more important horizontal plane, the Revel M16, JBL HDI 1600, Studio 530, and even the Genelec 8341 are all quite similar in terms of directivity up to about 10kHz

 

[tuga]

Understand what your saying but I'm still scratching my head a bit.
One of the usual reasons for leaning towards a horn loading is to gain sensitivity. A Revel M105 around the same cost is rated to deliver 86db. So could stick to a conventional waveguide design and get about the same power requirement.
More of a personal thing I guess, I was just very disappointed to see JBL design such a beautiful horn based speaker and then end up with a nothing better than any ole conventional design in efficiency.

They are not horn speakers but conventional speakers with a tweeter in a horn (probably to improve dispersion characteristics).

I was just highlighting it being presented in the review in a more conventional way that layman have become accustom to understanding.
Also nice to see how the reviews measurement compares to the manufacturers. Tells the reader a few different things.
Efficiency is one of the first things I look to learn about a speaker design when reading a tech review.

Laymen shouldn't be buying-by-numbers or star-ratings or listening impressions anyway, which is why this Preference Ratings Table or the SINAD one are traps.

 

[tuga]

I completely disagree with your assessment of the importance of efficiency and SQ, but that argument has been beaten to death in many posts here and else. No need to dig it up again. You bet on your horse and I'll bet on mine.

If you wish some sort of bass extension and also sensitivity you won't be able to achieve that using a 6.5" long excursion mid-woofer in a small cabinet.

 

[tuga]

I know how to do it

Do you?

@amirm , I was very excited to see the 1600 do so well in it's measurement. My only personal disappointment was in the sensitivity rating that I had to go to JBL for. JBL rates the speaker at,
"Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1M): 85dB"
which surprised me since the all the larger and center HDI models are rated at either 90 or 92 db? Don't know why they lost so much in the 1600? I any case can you figure from your measurements what the sensitivity looks like to you?
I really wish you would post sensitivity ratings in the same manner in which all the manufacturers and other testers do for comparison.
I know most of them like to exaggerate the posted numbers since many buyers find them important.
I would hate to purchase these only to find out I'd need 3 new amps to drive them.
TIA

 

[Jon AA]

They are not horn speakers but conventional speakers with a tweeter in a horn (probably to improve dispersion characteristics).

They don't have tweeters in the horn. It's on the back of the horn. The same as every other horn speaker. You may be thinking of speakers such as the Klipsch RP-600M, that does, in fact, have a dome tweeter "in the horn waveguide."

 

[tuga]

They don't have tweeters in the horn. It's on the back of the horn. The same as every other horn speaker. You may be thinking of speakers such as the Klipsch RP-600M, that does, in fact, have a dome tweeter "in the horn waveguide."

What I meant to say is that the compression driver only covers the upper octaves.
It's not horn-loaded over a wide range of the spectrum, and it has a low sensitivity results from the mid-woofer and cabinet size.

The Gedlee Abbey sports a 96dB/m desnsitivity but uses a 12" woofer in a very large (for a standmount) cabinet.
And the bottoms starts to roll-off just below 100Hz:

 

[tuga]

If I'm not mistaken Avantgarde and Odeon used to horn-load Audax's high-sensitivity low-excursion midrange drivers such as the PR170M0:

SPL 2,83 V/1m : 99 dB
Xmax : 0,5 +- mm

https://www.audax-speaker.de/index....dex[shop_articles][data][shop_articles_id]=29

 

[Jon AA]

What I meant to say is that the compression driver only covers the upper octaves.

As is the case with most all small 2-way horn speaker. Bigger speaker, larger horn allows for a lower crossover.

it has a low sensitivity results from the mid-woofer and cabinet size.

Of course. So we're back to it being a horn on the towers but not on the bookshelf. Glad we cleared that up. I'm just not getting what the enforced semantics accomplishes.

 

[tuga]

As is the case with most all small 2-way horn speaker. Bigger speaker, larger horn allows for a lower crossover.

Of course. So we're back to it being a horn on the towers but not on the bookshelf. Glad we cleared that up. I'm just not getting what the enforced semantics accomplishes.

My point was that a small 2-way speaker is not high sensitivity just because it has a horn-loaded driver.

The other point I would like to make is that horns have a narrow operating bandwidth and thus should not be used in a 2-way topology.
If you pull the blanket too much your feet will stick out.

Unless you use the horn as a narrow-directivity waveguide, in which case you won't be using it increase gain.

 

[Sal1950]

Laymen shouldn't be buying-by-numbers or star-ratings or listening impressions anyway, which is why this Preference Ratings Table or the SINAD one are traps.

How would you suggest they choose, by visiting their local HiFi shop?

 

[GXAlan]

My point was that a small 2-way speaker is not high sensitivity just because it has a horn-loaded driver.

The other point I would like to make is that horns have a narrow operating bandwidth and thus should not be used in a 2-way topology.
If you pull the blanket too much your feet will stick out.

Unless you use the horn as a narrow-directivity waveguide, in which case you won't be using it increase gain.

JBL 4367 and M2 are two-way horns.

 

[Sal1950]

JBL 4367 and M2 are two-way horns.

Hush,
1. You can't call them horns!
2. JBL must have no idea what they're doing, How can they be building those world class 2 way horns, it isn't possible.

3. We have a few folks here that drastically overestimate themselves.

 

[Promit]

Your meltdown over this is unnecessary. You made a comment about efficiency that had no basis. Own it and move on.
P.S. the M2 is described as a waveguide.

 

[tuga]

How would you suggest they choose, by visiting their local HiFi shop?

Use measurements for shortlisting and then listen. It's what I do.

 

[tuga]

JBL 4367 and M2 are two-way horns.

Hush,
1. You can't call them horns!
2. JBL must have no idea what they're doing, How can they be building those world class 2 way horns, it isn't possible.

3. We have a few folks here that drastically overestimate themselves.

One could argue that the M2 and the 4367 are effectively 3-way speakers:

- D2430K Dual Diaphragm Dual Voice Coil Compression Driver


They are not horns:

- Image Control waveguide

 

[peanuts]

One could argue that the M2 and the 4367 are effectively 3-way speakers:

its still 1.5" exit throat. so it beams above 9khz regardless of diaphragm. as can be seen clearly below.
a 3way can always better that, having 1" (13.5khz) as a maximum size.

 

[GXAlan]

One could argue that the M2 and the 4367 are effectively 3-way speakers:

- D2430K Dual Diaphragm Dual Voice Coil Compression Driver


They are not horns:

- Image Control waveguide

https://www.jblsynthesis.com/produc...tanding-loudspeakers/Studio+Monitor+4367.html

Upper-mid and high frequencies are reproduced by a patented D2430K 3-inch dual diaphragm, dual voice coil compression driver with dual neodymium motor structures and JBL’s patented High-Definition Imaging (HDI™) waveguide horn.

JBL calls it a 2-way speaker. I won’t argue with them.

They call it a waveguide horn. I won’t argue with them, either.

—-
FWIW, the 4319 is described as having a sonoglass waveguide.

https://www.audioadvice.com/jbl-4319-studio-monitor-speaker.html

That is not a horn.

 

[jhaider]

One could argue that the M2 and the 4367 are effectively 3-way speakers:

- D2430K Dual Diaphragm Dual Voice Coil Compression Driver

No more than adding a second woofer to cover the same range makes a new “way.”

Unlike some drivers by BMS or B&C, D2 isn’t a coax. It has two identical radiating elements that are combined into a single output with a patented (I think) phase plug.

 

[Sal1950]

https://www.jblsynthesis.com/produc...tanding-loudspeakers/Studio+Monitor+4367.html
Upper-mid and high frequencies are reproduced by a patented D2430K 3-inch dual diaphragm, dual voice coil compression driver with dual neodymium motor structures and JBL’s patented High-Definition Imaging (HDI™) waveguide horn.
JBL calls it a 2-way speaker. I won’t argue with them.
They call it a waveguide horn. I won’t argue with them, either.

JBL says it's a 2 WAY and a HORN.
Now I hope that's the last word on it.

 

[Sal1950]

Use measurements for shortlisting and then listen

Listen WHERE