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JBL HDI-1600 Speaker Review

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amirm

amirm

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I really wish you would post sensitivity ratings in the same manner in which all the manufacturers and other testers do for comparison.
Sensitivity is in every review. It is the on-axis graph:

index.php


Yes, it varies by frequency and manufactures play any game they like to arrive at their number. 85 certainly fits my measurements as I have drawn the line there already. :)

Someone can take the spin data and create a single metric if we can agree what that should be (1 kHz, average, etc.).
 

jhaider

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Don't know why they lost so much in the 1600?

It's as simple as, they wanted some bass.

As for a single metric, sensitivity is one of those things IMO best determined using the "eyeball by someone who knows what they're doing" method.
 

Sal1950

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As for a single metric, sensitivity is one of those things IMO best determined using the "eyeball by someone who knows what they're doing" method.
Sure, but what about the people that don't know what their doing? :)

Sensitivity is in every review. It is the on-axis graph:
Where does it say Sensitivity = X?
Amir, Please pick a "metric" and publish it in the review for folks without a EE degree to relate to?
If it's all "inthere" why not do things in ways people across the board understand? IE, whats wrong with 20-20kHZ in that graph like the rest of the layman media, instead of 103 ? LOL
If the site is to reach people without tech background, we need to do at least a few of the basic things in ways folks have at least learned to understand over the years.
TIA
 

Sal1950

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Someone can take the spin data and create a single metric if we can agree what that should be (1 kHz, average, etc.).
PS, I hope your not saying to bury it in the spin data file? You'll frighten 98% of your Joe Sixpack visitors away if you expect them open that zip file and go digging in it just to find out how speaker X compares to his Y. o_O
 

tuga

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Sure, but what about the people that don't know what their doing? :)


Where does it say Sensitivity = X?
Amir, Please pick a "metric" and publish it in the review for folks without a EE degree to relate to?
If it's all "inthere" why not do things in ways people across the board understand? IE, whats wrong with 20-20kHZ in that graph like the rest of the layman media, instead of 103 ? LOL
If the site is to reach people without tech background, we need to do at least a few of the basic things in ways folks have at least learned to understand over the years.
TIA
Look where the FR curve hits 1kHz.
 

Sal1950

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Look where the FR curve hits 1kHz.
What part of this "Where does it say Sensitivity = X?" don't your understand?
I'm pretty sure everyone else does.
 

Dj7675

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Sensitivity is in every review. It is the on-axis graph:

index.php


Yes, it varies by frequency and manufactures play any game they like to arrive at their number. 85 certainly fits my measurements as I have drawn the line there already. :)

Someone can take the spin data and create a single metric if we can agree what that should be (1 kHz, average, etc.).
Appreciate the question being asked. Now I know where to look :)
 
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amirm

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LOL... was below what you mean, yellow is avarage.
No, I meant the on-axis response. There are different schemes for summing that to compute a single average to report as speaker sensitivity.
 

jhaider

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Where does it say Sensitivity = X?

The drive level is 2.83V, so "sensitivity" is the value on the y-axis where you think is about the average value of the on axis (or listening window, doesn't really matter) response.

Note this only works for passive speakers. But sensitivity is irrelevant in active speakers.
 
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amirm

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Yeah, I use the average from 300Hz-3kHz, for no other reason that it’s what SoundStage/NRC uses.
So do you want to compute that and post it with your preference scores?
 

Sal1950

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Hint Hint
"PSB specifies the Alpha P5's sensitivity as 87dB, presumably for 2.83V drive at 1m. My estimate was a little lower, at 85dB(B)/2.83V/m."
John Atkinson
Stereophile Oct 2019
 

MZKM

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Hint Hint
"PSB specifies the Alpha P5's sensitivity as 87dB, presumably for 2.83V drive at 1m. My estimate was a little lower, at 85dB(B)/2.83V/m."
John Atkinson
Stereophile Oct 2019
Yeah, J.A. measures sensitivity thusly:
I feed the loudspeaker with 20kHz-bandwidth noise at a standard level, capture the output waveform with the DRA Labs MLSSA system used in its storage-oscilloscope mode, and apply B-weighting to the 1/10-octave-smoothed power response to reduce the effect of bandwidth differences.

I simply take the unweighted sensitivity from 300Hz-3kHz, no weighting and ~1/20 octave.
 

Sal1950

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"Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1M): 85dB"
which surprised me since the all the larger and center HDI models are rated at either 90 or 92 db? Don't know why they lost so much in the 1600?
It's as simple as, they wanted some bass.
Understand what your saying but I'm still scratching my head a bit.
One of the usual reasons for leaning towards a horn loading is to gain sensitivity. A Revel M105 around the same cost is rated to deliver 86db. So could stick to a conventional waveguide design and get about the same power requirement.
More of a personal thing I guess, I was just very disappointed to see JBL design such a beautiful horn based speaker and then end up with a nothing better than any ole conventional design in efficiency. :(

I simply take the unweighted sensitivity from 300Hz-3kHz, no weighting and ~1/20 octave.
I was just highlighting it being presented in the review in a more conventional way that layman have become accustom to understanding.
Also nice to see how the reviews measurement compares to the manufacturers. Tells the reader a few different things. ;)
Efficiency is one of the first things I look to learn about a speaker design when reading a tech review.
 

Sal1950

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Yeah, I have it set up where the actual specs get color coded based off how far off they are from the manufacturer specs.
Will the numbers be found in the original review post?
I'm not really understanding, something like this?
JBL HDI-1600 Speaker CEA-2034 Spinorama Audio Measurements_v1.jpg
 

MZKM

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Will the numbers be found in the original review post?
I'm not really understanding, something like this?
View attachment 58690
I have it in my sheets for each speaker that you can access by clicking on my signature. Here is the direct link for this speaker, under SPL Specs (if the graphs don’t show for the other tabs, it’s because you are on an iPhone using Safari).

As for reading the graph in the review, the left side has the decibel level and the black line is the on-axis, so just look at what decibel it is at, you can see that at 100Hz (10^2) it’s ~85dB and at 10kHz (10^4) it’s at ~80dB.
 
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jhaider

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Understand what your saying but I'm still scratching my head a bit.
One of the usual reasons for leaning towards a horn loading is to gain sensitivity. A Revel M105 around the same cost is rated to deliver 86db. So could stick to a conventional waveguide design and get about the same power requirement.

The waveguide is there for directivity, not efficiency.

Revel M105 and M106 are both rated to deliver 20Hz less extension than this speaker. Considering that, just 1dB sensitivity penalty is not too shabby!

EDIT: note that the previous JBL bookshelf horn speaker has if anything slightly lower sensitivity than this one:
index.php

JBL design such a beautiful horn based speaker

It's a waveguide (device to control directivity) not a horn (acoustic amplifier). In either case, the sensitivity is going to have been set by the desired bass extension, i.e. woofer design and cabinet volume.

Efficiency is one of the first things I look to learn about a speaker design when reading a tech review.

Sensitivity is one thing I personally have never bothered to measure, because calibrating a portable measurement system to absolute (as opposed to relative) SPL is a big pain. Also in use it has never been shown to me that important, and I've run systems varying from ~83dB/2.83V/1m to ~96dB/2.83V/1m response. As long as it can reach the levels you want with the amp you have, I call it good enough. I typically do pair a speaker with a moderate power amp (Parasound Zamp usually) and a massive amp (ATI AT4007).
 
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