I guess this technique was there on your old speakers as well. When I tried to put in the woofers back on older Alr’s when the music was playing (removed the binding connection for mids and tweeters) felt at certain points it sounded very smooth with bass but as I tighten them up more the some resonance started creeping in. I never investigated what happened with it but just left the screws at the point where they sounded the best. May be the glue remains were the problem, but after you said this I am not sure!
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Epos ES 14 N - best passive Speaker in SpiNorama.org so far? (7.4/10 with equalisation without subwoofer)
- Thread starter totti1965
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DSJR
Major Contributor
So much for my ancient (Linn) indoctrination to tighten the drivers HARD into their mounts 
I started to learn via the early 70's Spendor ply cabinets which actually perform slightly better if the panels are NOT tightened up hard. My thin-wall damped Harbeth MDF boxes and drivers *are* firmly tight from the factory and when I checked a few years ago, they stayed tight so I put the grilles back on and leave them well alone.
KEF went through a spate of decoupling their bass and bass-mid drivers from the enclosures in the 80's and despite reduction of panel related colorations, the quality of the bass on percussion suffered hugely, this in the days of vinyl so an additive thing too. They soon abandoned this idea as they 'solved' the issues another way it seems.
I've not had a chance to hear the ES14N yet, but my dealer pal has a set and likes them a lot (sickness has prevented us from getting together for a music session and he's seventy miles away too), but I'd ask to make sure the user guide/instructions cover this aspect as you know what tech-uneducated 'audiophile' end users will do if they find the drivers need 'tightening up'
I started to learn via the early 70's Spendor ply cabinets which actually perform slightly better if the panels are NOT tightened up hard. My thin-wall damped Harbeth MDF boxes and drivers *are* firmly tight from the factory and when I checked a few years ago, they stayed tight so I put the grilles back on and leave them well alone.
KEF went through a spate of decoupling their bass and bass-mid drivers from the enclosures in the 80's and despite reduction of panel related colorations, the quality of the bass on percussion suffered hugely, this in the days of vinyl so an additive thing too. They soon abandoned this idea as they 'solved' the issues another way it seems.
I've not had a chance to hear the ES14N yet, but my dealer pal has a set and likes them a lot (sickness has prevented us from getting together for a music session and he's seventy miles away too), but I'd ask to make sure the user guide/instructions cover this aspect as you know what tech-uneducated 'audiophile' end users will do if they find the drivers need 'tightening up'
DSJR
Major Contributor
P.S. It seems the @Karl-Heinz Fink designed Q Acoustics models, at least from a few years ago, had the tweeters decoupled a little?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #384
Anyway…. I think it’s Artist Cloner who did everything right with his Air Motion Transformer Tweeter. This Mekanika Speaker from the Montreal Audio show did so many things right, I have dreamed before….
My idea was a Speaker with two Open Dipole Bass Linkwitz Configuration Speakers in a D‘appolito Configuration. And in the Middle a Tweeter which could be direkt (non Dipole).
This Steam Punk Beauty makes the direct Opposite. But very very very interesting.
Seems to be a very direct coupling of the AMT with the Rest of the „Enclosure“…
Whoever produces the best sound is right!!!
Look jays video from 4:36 min on!
thorsten
My idea was a Speaker with two Open Dipole Bass Linkwitz Configuration Speakers in a D‘appolito Configuration. And in the Middle a Tweeter which could be direkt (non Dipole).
This Steam Punk Beauty makes the direct Opposite. But very very very interesting.
Seems to be a very direct coupling of the AMT with the Rest of the „Enclosure“…
Whoever produces the best sound is right!!!
Look jays video from 4:36 min on!
thorsten
Roland68
Major Contributor
The Epos ES28N could be heard at the High End in Munich.
One of the few speakers that I listened to for longer. Really good.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #387
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #388
You can hear it at 2:49:35 min and compare it to the ES 14N which is at 2:48:20! Seems to be impressing.
HIGH END Munich 2024
The name of the event is off-putting somewhat, but even if I lived in Germany doubtful I'd attend any audio show....am not in the business of buying/selling gear like that. I'm the same really, expensive highend audiophile status stuff generally makes me want to puke, but I still want to go to...
www.audiosciencereview.com
If this is true this is SOTA stuff.
BrokenEnglishGuy
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I saw spinorama fixed the score from EPOS, the OP should modify the thread a little bit, it's kind of weird. The score it's 6.5, but scores doesn't matter that much as the OP want to point
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What does SOTA mean, please?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #392
Can’t see the difference: Score with equalisation is still 7.4I saw spinorama fixed the score from EPOS, the OP should modify the thread a little bit, it's kind of weird. The score it's 6.5, but scores doesn't matter that much as the OP want to point
View attachment 370437
But there were some minor changes: As an example the Sointuwa AWG is now a bit lower than Gen 1 Sointuwa
And: the Ascend Acoustic Sierra LX rises from 7,18 three months ago (with equalisation) to 7.26 (with equalisation).
But I don’t know why.
BrokenEnglishGuy
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Score with EQ is not a score and doesn't matter. The only score is by default.
the 7.4 is just a imaginary thing, doesn't exist. The score is 6.5, please modify the thread. Is so weird to even think the score is the best '' with eq '', doesn't make any sense. The ES14 come with automatic EQ or something? Im a bit lost.
The thread should be called something like:
Epos ES 14 N - best passive imaginary Speaker in SpiNorama.org so far? (7.4/10 with equalisation without subwoofer)
OP
- Thread Starter
- #395
State of the Art
No. It is highly relevant. Because it is a huge difference if a speaker is good equalizable or not.
Some speakers are extremely good to equalize (e.g. the Andrew Jones Elac Debut 2.0 5.2) can rise from 4.2 to 6.6 just with 9-way parametric equalizer.
Other speakers just win 0.5 points.
It is how the speaker interacts with the room.
The Andrew Jones or the Epos speakers have nice behavior in that regard.
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BrokenEnglishGuy
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how it interact with the room have to be more with directivity not with spinorama.
Even the sound power is not even, what you wrote is just incorrect, just see the power. Is still a imaginary thing. a coaxial like the KEFs are going to be much more good for EQ due to it's sound power/direcitivty, this is not for what spinorama is.
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Thanks! We are just moving the NFS, but I'll post a set of measurements once it's done.
OP
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- #398
Would be great. 
I just find just by coincidence the oldest measurement by Erin from Erin’s audiocorner (because I wanted to know how long it’s since he started).
Quality of measurements is rated as unknown.
But Erin used the Klippel NFS.
It was the Selah Audio Purezza! It is from 09/2020
What I find highly remarkable is the fact that the Selah Audio guys seemed to make the same decision as you did with your Epos ES 28N:
The bass under 150 Hz a bit slimmer than usual. Because the room will do the rest for you
and it might be a bit more pleasant in real world listening. That was Erins subjective impression with the Selah.
https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/Selah Audio Purezza/ErinsAudioCorner/eac-original/CEA2034.webp
I just find just by coincidence the oldest measurement by Erin from Erin’s audiocorner (because I wanted to know how long it’s since he started).
Quality of measurements is rated as unknown.
But Erin used the Klippel NFS.
It was the Selah Audio Purezza! It is from 09/2020
What I find highly remarkable is the fact that the Selah Audio guys seemed to make the same decision as you did with your Epos ES 28N:
The bass under 150 Hz a bit slimmer than usual. Because the room will do the rest for you
and it might be a bit more pleasant in real world listening. That was Erins subjective impression with the Selah.
https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/Selah Audio Purezza/ErinsAudioCorner/eac-original/CEA2034.webp
OP
- Thread Starter
- #399
Hm, I must admit that the sound power of the Keef LS 50 Meta is very smooth.
But what i am mostly interested is the flat estimated in-room response.
And here the profit of a little bit of equalisation is low for the LS 50 Meta.
It rises from 5.88 to 6.55. It is perhaps because it is to good in the first place.
The Profit of a parametric equalizer for the Elac Debut 2.0 5.2 - a speaker which I bought
new for EUR 200,— / pair for test purposes is 4.23 to 6.6
At least for me the score with EQ is not an imaginary thing, because I can hear the difference at my listening position.
In case I was wrong with the explanation of equalizibility - what do you think is the reason,
why some speakers win just 0.5 points and other 2.0 points or more?
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That's exactly what I do. A larger speaker with two woofers close to the floor needs this to sound fast and tight on the bottom end. In my crossover simulations, I can switch on the floor effects and decide how I want the speaker to be. I did that in the past, but I only recently added the effects into my simulation.
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