HiFi Tage Darmstadt Okt. 19 and Okt. 20, Germany Part one

[totti1965]

I would like to share a few very subjective and of course completely unscientific thoughts on this year's show organized by LOW BEATS.

Before you start reading you have to listen to this song, which I discovered today just 10 minutes before the HiFi-Show was closed. It is worth to hear it - even if you can’t afford the Wlson Benesh speakers!

As always, the great venues with acoustically exemplary rooms between 50 and 124 square meters are the outstanding feature of this beautiful event.
There were many interesting exhibitors, but (as always!) only a few who were able to get great sound out of the facilities.
Only three (loudspeaker) manufacturers were able to impress me a little with my 40 years of hi-fi listening experience.

At least the second best sound of the show was to be heard in the Fink Team / Epos room. It is well known that I am quite a fanboy of the EPOS ES 14 loudspeakers (EUR 4,600). After all, I have opened a frequently visited thread here in the forum because of the excellent “equalizability” of these EPOS speakers and the great results of the Klippel measurement (Source: https://spinorama.org of Pierre Aubert, France)
The latest offspring of the Karl-Heinz Fink-owned loudspeaker company also sound great: the small EPOS ES 7 for EUR 2,000 and the large EPOS ES 28 for EUR 8,000.
The ES 7 (no photo, sorry!) has a switch with which you can lower the bass so that it still sounds great on a bookshelf, the large one has an incredibly clear, transparent bass response and therefore sounds “faster” and more transparent than almost any bass reflex loudspeaker I know. A pleasure to listen to with your eyes closed.

Numerous phantom sound sources appear between the loudspeakers and you literally want to point your finger at individual musicians. All of this is paired with a transparency and immediacy that is sometimes almost reminiscent of good electrostatic headphones (or my perfectly equalized Sennheiser HD 58x Jubilee). Clear, fast and distortion-free.





Secondly, I was quite impressed by the Wilson Benesch (EUR 43,000).
Here's a little anecdote about the aha experience with the Wilson Benesch. I walk in towards the end and think aha some dinky two-way in Quasi Dappolito - not that much bigger than the Aura speakers my friend Peter bought in the late 80s... Maybe twice the volume. I sit down without recognizing the brand.....

Just think: Shit, it sounds good!!! That's really good!

Then I see that the top of the speaker is slanted, like a bishop's mitre, and only then (!) do I realize “Aha, Wilson Benesch” ......

I ask the guy about the price: “Well, EUR 43,000“.

Why do I always like the most expensive things so much - even if I have no idea what's actually playing.....

Here is only pic I took in the EPOS room (because I dived deep in the music- about one hour!)

And here the wonderfull Wilson Benesh (EUR 43.000,—):

 

[totti1965]

Part two:

Piega is now the best, coolest sound of the show, because this year the Wilson Audio Sasha V (EUR 65,000), which makes me speechless because of the absence of any cabinet coloration and wonderfull frequency balance.
Unfortunately Piega wants EUR 34,000 for the loudspeakers and EUR 5,300 for the DAC ..... and EUR 4,700 for the streamer and EUR 8,000 for the 4-channel amplifier).
In the unanimous opinion of my friend Gregor, my friend Helge and myself, this year “Best sound of the show”.

The DAC!!! Aviable from November on. Undoubtly the most beautiful equipment, I have ever seen. Perhaps one reason, why the Piegas sounded so good!
I know it is not scientific but R2R and I2S - perhaps this the solution, if you want true „musicality“.
I fell in love with this Korean DAC from HiFi rose (HiFi rose RD160) with this futuristic, Star Trek like „transparent Aluminium“. Never saw something like that!
Here are the HiFi Rose and the Piega Pics:

 

[LTig]

Part two:

Piega is now the best, coolest sound of the show, because this year the Wilson Audio Sasha V (EUR 65,000), which makes me speechless because of the absence of any cabinet coloration and wonderfull frequency balance.
Unfortunately Piega wants EUR 34,000 for the loudspeakers and EUR 5,300 for the DAC ..... and EUR 4,700 for the streamer and EUR 8,000 for the 4-channel amplifier).
In the unanimous opinion of my friend Gregor, my friend Helge and myself, this year “Best sound of the show”.

The DAC!!! Aviable from November on. Undoubtly the most beautiful equipment, I have ever seen. Perhaps one reason, why the Piegas sounded so good!
I know it is not scientific but R2R and I2S - perhaps this the solution, if you want true „musicality“.

No. It may be the solution to your personal heaven for whatever reasons, but not for others. If I want musicality I choose a recording by musicians who know their job and listen to my system at home which did cost a fraction (less than 10 k€ for all except vinyl) and sounds fantastic. Speakers are studio monitors and a studio sub, fed by an excellent AVP with room EQ.
Listened to Tool's Lateralus yesterday at very high SPL - a great experience.

 

[totti1965]

Part three:

Now it becomes even more subjective-

This is the Electronic for the Wilson Benesh. I have no clue what it is costing, or if it is any good.
Looks at lest veeeeery expensive.

Sorry, except
1. Piega
2. Karl Heinz Fink with the Epos ES 28, which played incredibly clearly
and
3. these Wilson Benesch loudspeakers,
everything was several classes worse.....
Nevertheless, here are a few photos with comments:

Avant-garde Acustic for EUR 96,000
Souvereign. They say it is 109 dB per Watt. I think it is more 100 dB per Watt.
They played with peak 91.6 dB at my listing position which was louder than I like.
Maybe 0.3 Watt used or so….
Everything not so much my cup of tea:

Here the Unison 845 Beauty’s: stereoplay a German HiFi magazine found out that it has the most beautiful distortion placement ever - everything in perfect order at any frequency and any power up to more than 10 Watt. K2 10 dB more than k3. K3 is 10 dB more than K4 and K4 is 10 dB more than k5…. Perfect!

These 845 are running a Tannoy look a like:

Focal Diva:

These speakers can go loud. To much bass between 70 Hz and 90 Hz - as we are used to from focal since the 1980 s.

The beautiful Aretai speakers…. Well, I found out, that they are playing with the roon parametric equalizer and lowered the frequencies from 500 Hz to 20.000 Hz at 4 dB…. So this maybe the reason why it sounds as mp3….
Despite of EUR 27.000,— Electrocompaniet electronic, which is at least as good as my Fosi V3!

Here a design object: Backes and Müller. There are listeners who were impressed.
Well, let’s say they have muuuuuuch Bass…. Who likes it, likes it. Something for the ikea Fans perhaps.
Sounds veeeeeeery digital - a compliment? You decide!

And here: Dynaudio - I haven’t listen to them. Thy must tell my why they included two tweeters in their top models - just to find out now, that the conventional Quasi DˋAppolito Arengement with ONE Tweeter in the middle is better. Where are their ears for the last 20 years? I have never liked their 6dB crossovers. Sounded a bit fatigue to me for the last 30 or so years, so I skipped them.

Nice Analog stuff:

Behind every engeneer is a Sales Person
Here the typical car of a Sales Person of the more expensive stuff like Backes and Müller, Tidal Audio (beautyfull amps by the way for EUR 90,000), Von Schweickert Audio or Accuphase, LOL
2025 Porsche 911 GT3

 

[totti1965]

No. It may be the solution to your personal heaven for whatever reasons, but not for others. If I want musicality I choose a recording by musicians who know their job and listen to my system at home which did cost a fraction (less than 10 k€ for all except vinyl) and sounds fantastic. Speakers are studio monitors and a studio sub, fed by an excellent AVP with room EQ.
Listened to Tool's Lateralus yesterday at very high SPL - a great experience.

Well, I am using monitors with a flat frequency response at home. What puts me a smile on my face when visiting HiFi Shows is, that most of the stuff I can hear there for 30 times the price of my Equipment sounds only slightly worse than in my home…

 

[LTig]

Well, I am using monitors with a flat frequency response at home. What puts me a smile on my face when visiting HiFi Shows is, that most of the stuff I can hear there for 30 times the price of my Equipment sounds only slightly worse than in my home…

Yep, same here. Listened once to system consisting of Naim streamers, Naim statement amplification (240 k€) and the biggest Focal speakers (200 k€) and the sound was OK when playing audiophile music, but suffered on rock. Also bass was overblown (no room EQ).

 

[JustJones]

This is the Electronic for the Wilson Benesh. I have no clue what it is costing, or if it is any good.
Looks at lest veeeeery expensive.

Looks like Lumin P1 $10,000

Lumin stereo Amp $14,000

 

[totti1965]

Yep, same here. Listened once to system consisting of Naim streamers, Naim statement amplification (240 k€) and the biggest Focal speakers (200 k€) and the sound was OK when playing audiophile music, but suffered on rock. Also bass was overblown (no room EQ).

As I said about the Focal Diva Utopia in Part three! Have they no ears? That’s because Focal Loudspeaker Chassis are extremely good an famous. But you have to build your own speakers with them. I never understand……

 

[totti1965]

Looks like Lumin P1 $10,000
View attachment 400192



Lumin stereo Amp $14,000

View attachment 400193

Ah, thanks! I bet they are good, but I doubt that there is any audible difference between them and a WiiM Pro Plus plus Fosi V3 Monos (or Topping B100, Topping B200)….
Speakers are so much more important and the Wilson Benesch has nice Monitor Qualties and the Cabinet seems to be extremely rigged. I like the speaker, but even if millionaire would not buy the electronic, I think. So I haven’t ask the guys for exact data.
But: perhaps there IS something with R2R and I2S DACs. I am a WiiM Pro Plus User, but simply fell in love with that little guy from rose audio (German text) https://www.areadvd.de/tests/specia...orstellung-auf-dem-piega-experience-day-2024/
Or also here:

Exklusivtest Rose RD160: Atem-beraubende Sci-Fi DAC-Vorstufe - LowBeats

Der koreanische Digitalspezialist HiFi Rose hat sich binnen weniger Jahre einen exzellenten Ruf mit

www.lowbeats.de

But perhaps it is just because of the very well sounding Piega speakers with which I have heared him… who knows?
I would not claim to pass any electronic /DAC Blind Tests but my imagination is huge! Ha ha ha!

 

[napfkuchen]

Unfortunately I couldn't attend due to more important family matters. Would have liked to experience B&M, Perlisten and the Focal Diva, but also horn speakers, for example.
Just to "hear" where I stand with my own setup in a neutral atmosphere (without dealer blah blah).

However, the first thing I would have done is ask Masimo whether the release of Dirac ART for the current av receivers would come at some point or Denon/Marantz wants to win the "Ankündigungsweltmeister-Pokal" (world-champion-of-false-promises-trophy).

 

[pogo]

Backes and Müller. There are listeners who were impressed.
Well, let’s say they have muuuuuuch Bass…. Who likes it, likes it. Something for the ikea Fans perhaps.
Sounds veeeeeeery digital - a compliment? You decide!

Alongside the Colibri C2 with Sub C18 from Avantgarde Acoustic, the BM Jubilé series was the biggest surprise for me and very much to my taste, i.e. very live-like.

 

[pogo]

And here is my personal retro highlight of the fair:

Unfortunately, I won't be able to afford the new MKIII

 

[The Doctor]

Yep, same here. Listened once to system consisting of Naim streamers, Naim statement amplification (240 k€) and the biggest Focal speakers (200 k€) and the sound was OK when playing audiophile music, but suffered on rock. Also bass was overblown (no room EQ).

What is so called "audiophile music"?

 

[totti1965]

What is so called "audiophile music"?

This is audiophile music:

 

[PloddyPastard]

Thank you for sharing your experience and insights from the HiFi Tage!

 

[LTig]

What is so called "audiophile music"l

Music with very few instruments well recorded so it is easy to hear each single instrument or voice. Any system can play it decently.

 

[Roland68]

What is so called "audiophile music"?

There is even a definition for this.
"Sound fidelity refers to the ability of an ideal electro-acoustic transmission system to reproduce the recorded sound in such a way that there is no audible difference between the original and the reproduction through the loudspeakers. A corresponding music production is called audiophile."

Put simply, the recording should sound exactly as if you were standing in front of the musicians. This requires high-quality music production and "real" instruments.

 

[Aretai]

Dear totti1965, thank you for complimenting our speaker's visual design and your feedback about the sonic experience. We will inquire about our partner's reasoning behind the use of equalization (room issues?), as we never use EQ in shows. We'll prepare to bring a positively different experience during the upcoming High-End Vienna show. We hope you're coming to it!

With kind regards,

Jānis Irbe
Founder, CEO

 

[AdrianusG]

Ah, thanks! I bet they are good, but I doubt that there is any audible difference between them and a WiiM Pro Plus plus Fosi V3 Monos (or Topping B100, Topping B200)….
Speakers are so much more important and the Wilson Benesch has nice Monitor Qualties and the Cabinet seems to be extremely rigged. I like the speaker, but even if millionaire would not buy the electronic, I think. So I haven’t ask the guys for exact data.
But: perhaps there IS something with R2R and I2S DACs. I am a WiiM Pro Plus User, but simply fell in love with that little guy from rose audio (German text) https://www.areadvd.de/tests/specia...orstellung-auf-dem-piega-experience-day-2024/
Or also here:

Exklusivtest Rose RD160: Atem-beraubende Sci-Fi DAC-Vorstufe - LowBeats

Der koreanische Digitalspezialist HiFi Rose hat sich binnen weniger Jahre einen exzellenten Ruf mit

www.lowbeats.de

But perhaps it is just because of the very well sounding Piega speakers with which I have heared him… who knows?
I would not claim to pass any electronic /DAC Blind Tests but my imagination is huge! Ha ha ha!

Yes HiFi Rose makes well built, beautiful equipment (subjective i know) but also waaay overpriced, so out of my budget anyway.
It's most likely not sounding any better than my current DAC which is completely transparent to the source (confirmed by Amir's test)

 

[totti1965]

Dear totti1965, thank you for complimenting our speaker's visual design and your feedback about the sonic experience. We will inquire about our partner's reasoning behind the use of equalization (room issues?), as we never use EQ in shows. We'll prepare to bring a positively different experience during the upcoming High-End Vienna show. We hope you're coming to it!

With kind regards,

Jānis Irbe
Founder, CEO

Hello Janis,

I have edited my post with the following note:

Note from 29.10.2024:
My comments are basically not about the presumably well-done speakers, but about the demonstration as such.
On the one hand, it should be borne in mind that the entire left side of the listening room was a huge window area, and on the other hand, loudspeakers with horn-like constructions naturally do not emit particularly wide dispersion in the mid and high frequencies.
This, the fact that I was sitting in the middleof the first row and therefore a lot of sound probably flashed past me, as well as the fact that a slightly falling frequency response was also programmed, led to a less than convincing resolution at my listening position. You should definitely give the loudspeaker a chance at a good dealer or at home in your own listening room, especially if you appreciate such somewhat narrower radiating horn systems.
As Erin from Erin's Audiocorner says, the width of the dispersion angle is not a quality criterion in itself, but solely a question of personal taste. In retrospect, I'm really sorry for my harsh words above!



I really hope, that makes things more clear. I was kind of not aware for my responsibility which may follow of my words….

The reason, why I didn’t like the equalisation with a falling frequency plot from 300 Hz or so to 10.000 Hz by a margin of 4 dB is, because the in-room response of a perfectly executed speaker - here: the KEF Blade 2 as an example -

when measured by a Klippel System is already a falling amplitude from let’s say 100 Hz to 20.000 Hz by a margin of 5 dB.
If you add 4 dB to that naturally loss of high frequency energy and you listen to a waveguided system, where the waveguide is not showing directly to you ear….. you will loose 9 dB + x. So things went wrong in Darmstadt a bit.

I should have been more clear about the technical reasons and I’m sorry for that!

Yours,

Thorsten