Epos ES 14 N - best passive Speaker in SpiNorama.org so far? (7.4/10 with equalisation without subwoofer)

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Hm, I must admit that the sound power of the Keef LS 50 Meta is very smooth.
But what i am mostly interested is the flat estimated in-room response.
And here the profit of a little bit of equalisation is low for the LS 50 Meta.
It rises from 5.88 to 6.55. It is perhaps because it is to good in the first place.
The Profit of a parametric equalizer for the Elac Debut 2.0 5.2 - a speaker which I bought
new for EUR 200,— / pair for test purposes is 4.23 to 6.6

At least for me the score with EQ is not an imaginary thing, because I can hear the difference at my listening position.

In case I was wrong with the explanation of equalizibility - what do you think is the reason,
why some speakers win just 0.5 points and other 2.0 points or more?

but a flat estimated in room response doesn't mean flat sounding in the room, just mean on axis is flat and the off axis depend highly of the sound power, put some EQ and that sound power will be change too!

It's a well known behavior that the error it's like 2 points, spinorama is not something usefull for the in room response, you need KLIPPEL data not the score from spinorama, with like 5 measurements from Klippel data you can determinate the behavior of a speaker not the score from spinorama !!, these numbers from spinorama doesn't mean anything for what you are using the data, are just a numbers and aren't comparable for determinate coloration vs other speakers, just lack information and needs more data.
Speaking about the LS50M for example, that a small dip in 2-3khz, thats 1 or 2 filters and you get a very flat in room response, and even then you may want to look and the directivity for know how the speaker are going to spread the sound in the room.

You are using the data from spinorama incorrectly, for the purpose i see you want (?).

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Oh i haven't noticed here is Karl-Heinz Fink, i'm a proud owner of my Concept 500, you guys and Q acoustics did a beast of speaker !, im so happy with my speaker. good luck in your next projects! Glad to see you posting here in Asr

 

[Roland68]

What does SOTA mean, please?

State of the art
The meaning, however, is that it is at the latest/highest level of technology.
So it’s also a compliment.

 

[youngho]

This seems like a great price for anyone in San Antonio TX: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=189479.msg1982536;topicseen#new

 

[Paffi]

This seems like a great price for anyone in San Antonio TX: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=189479.msg1982536;topicseen#new

wtf I wish I could pick them up....

 

[Alan lin]

I am a distributor for Karl in China. Although I work in the audio industry, I have always been an avid audiophile. I have probably listened to more audio equipment than the average audiophile. The EPOS 14 is an outstanding bookshelf speaker, and in my opinion, the FINKTEAM KIM is a marvel in the realm of modern speakers. It is so vivid, easy to drive, and appealing—truly a magical speaker. I particularly agree with Mr. Karl's view on Wilson's lack of crossover skills.

Among the large speakers I have used carefully, I once used the Wilson Audio Alexandria X2-S2 carefully for a year, and it was one of the most disappointing speakers for me. It was too difficult to drive, with little bass, and the sound was thin and sharp. The amplifier that can easily drive the FINKTEAM has only half the sound when used with the Wilson Audio Alexandria X2-S2, and when I switched to using the darTZeel 468 to drive it, there was some improvement in Wilson's performance, but it was still far from expectations. The Dynaudio Evidence Platinum easily outperformed the Wilson Audio Alexandria X2-S2 and was better than the Sonus Faber Fenice I used. However, In a direct comparison with the Focal Grande Utopia EVO, the Dynaudio Evidence Platinum was left far behind.(Compared to the Focal Grande Utopia EVO, the Dynaudio Evidence Platinum is much more difficult to drive).

When a friend of mine came to take away my Focal Grande Utopia EVO, an interesting thing happened. When he heard the FINKTEAM KIM at my place, he was amazed. After listening for 20 minutes, he immediately transferred money to purchase the FINKTEAM KIM. In contrast, he was rather disappointed with the sound of the Focal Grande Utopia EVO.

But the Wilson Audio WAMM7 is one of the best speakers I have used,An unforgettable sound, far superior to the Alexandria X2， despite its poor highs, which can easily become thin and sharp. However, you can use an electronic crossover to adjust it, and the electrostatic tweeter provides extraordinary presence.

Nonetheless, I firmly believe that the upcoming FINKTEAM WM5 will surpass all other speakers.

In short, Karl is a genius, and every product from EPOS and FINKTEAM is incredibly outstanding and worth purchasing without hesitation.

 

[Jimbob54]

我是 Karl 在中国的经销商。虽然我从事音响行业，但我一直都是一个狂热的音响爱好者。我听过的音响设备可能比一般的音响爱好者要多。EPOS 14 是一款出色的书架式扬声器，在我看来，FINKTEAM KIM 是现代扬声器领域的一个奇迹。它如此生动、易于驱动且充满吸引力——真的是一个神奇的扬声器。我特别同意 Karl 先生对 Wilson 缺乏分频器技巧的看法。

在我小心使用过的大音箱中，我曾经小心使用过 Wilson Audio Alexandria X2-S2 一年，它是我最失望的音箱之一。它太难驱动了，低音很少，声音又薄又尖。可以轻松驱动 FINKTEAM 的功放与 Wilson Audio Alexandria X2-S2 一起使用时，声音只有半个机身，当我换用 darTZeel 468 驱动 ti 时，Wilson 的表现有一些改善，但仍然远远没有达到预期。Dynaudio Evidence Platinum 轻松击败了 Wilson Audio Alexandria X2-S2，也比我测试过的 Sonus Faber Fenice 更好。但是，以我的经验来看，它不如 Focal Grande Utopia EVO。当我的一个朋友过来拿走我的 Focal Grande Utopia EVO 时，发生了一件有趣的事情。当他在我家听到FINKTEAM KIM时，他惊讶不已。听了20分钟后，他立即转账购买了FINKTEAM KIM。相比之下，他对Focal Grande Utopia EVO的声音相当失望。

但 Wilson Audio 的 WAMM7 是我用过的最好的扬声器之一，尽管它的高频很糟糕，很容易变得单薄和刺耳。然而，你可以用电子分频器来调整它，静电高音扬声器提供了非凡的临场感。

然而，我坚信即将推出的 FINKTEAM WM5 将超越所有其他扬声器。



简而言之，Karl 是个天才，EPOS 和 FINKTEAM 的每一款产品都值得毫不犹豫地购买，因为它们出色得令人难以置信。

Translated by mods

I am Karl's distributor in China. Although I work in the audio industry, I have always been an avid audiophile. I have probably listened to more audio equipment than the average audiophile. The EPOS 14 is an excellent bookshelf speaker, and in my opinion, the FINKTEAM KIM is a miracle in the field of modern speakers. It is so vivid, easy to drive, and attractive - it is really a magical speaker. I especially agree with Mr. Karl's opinion on Wilson's lack of crossover skills.

Among the large speakers I have carefully used, I have carefully used the Wilson Audio Alexandria X2-S2 for a year, and it is one of my most disappointing speakers. It is too difficult to drive, there is very little bass, and the sound is thin and sharp. The amplifier that can easily drive the FINKTEAM has only half the sound when used with the Wilson Audio Alexandria X2-S2. When I switched to darTZeel 468 to drive ti, the performance of Wilson improved a little, but it was still far from what I expected. The Dynaudio Evidence Platinum easily beats the Wilson Audio Alexandria X2-S2 and is also better than the Sonus Faber Fenice I tested. However, in my experience, it is not as good as the Focal Grande Utopia EVO. A funny thing happened when a friend of mine came over to take my Focal Grande Utopia EVO. He was amazed when he heard the FINKTEAM KIM at my house. After listening to it for 20 minutes, he immediately transferred the money to buy the FINKTEAM KIM. In comparison, he was quite disappointed with the sound of the Focal Grande Utopia EVO.

But the Wilson Audio WAMM7 is one of the best speakers I have ever used, although its high frequency is terrible and can easily become thin and harsh. However, you can adjust it with the electronic crossover, and the electrostatic tweeter provides a remarkable sense of presence.

However, I firmly believe that the upcoming FINKTEAM WM5 will surpass all other speakers.

In short, Karl is a genius and every product from EPOS and FINKTEAM is worth buying without hesitation because they are incredibly good.

Hi and welcome.

I've translated that post but please post in English in future. Thanks.

 

[Alan lin]

Hi and welcome.

I've translated that post but please post in English in future. Thanks.

Certainly! My apologies for using ChatGPT for translation and forgetting to copy the English part.

 

[Jimbob54]

No problem.

Certainly! My apologies for using ChatGPT for translation and forgetting to copy the English part.

 

[OCA]

I am a distributor for Karl in China. Although I work in the audio industry, I have always been an avid audiophile. I have probably listened to more audio equipment than the average audiophile. The EPOS 14 is an outstanding bookshelf speaker, and in my opinion, the FINKTEAM KIM is a marvel in the realm of modern speakers. It is so vivid, easy to drive, and appealing—truly a magical speaker. I particularly agree with Mr. Karl's view on Wilson's lack of crossover skills.

Among the large speakers I have used carefully, I once used the Wilson Audio Alexandria X2-S2 carefully for a year, and it was one of the most disappointing speakers for me. It was too difficult to drive, with little bass, and the sound was thin and sharp. The amplifier that can easily drive the FINKTEAM has only half the sound when used with the Wilson Audio Alexandria X2-S2, and when I switched to using the darTZeel 468 to drive it, there was some improvement in Wilson's performance, but it was still far from expectations. The Dynaudio Evidence Platinum easily outperformed the Wilson Audio Alexandria X2-S2 and was better than the Sonus Faber Fenice I used. However, In a direct comparison with the Focal Grande Utopia EVO, the Dynaudio Evidence Platinum was left far behind.(Compared to the Focal Grande Utopia EVO, the Dynaudio Evidence Platinum is much more difficult to drive).

When a friend of mine came to take away my Focal Grande Utopia EVO, an interesting thing happened. When he heard the FINKTEAM KIM at my place, he was amazed. After listening for 20 minutes, he immediately transferred money to purchase the FINKTEAM KIM. In contrast, he was rather disappointed with the sound of the Focal Grande Utopia EVO.

But the Wilson Audio WAMM7 is one of the best speakers I have used,An unforgettable sound, far superior to the Alexandria X2， despite its poor highs, which can easily become thin and sharp. However, you can use an electronic crossover to adjust it, and the electrostatic tweeter provides extraordinary presence.

Nonetheless, I firmly believe that the upcoming FINKTEAM WM5 will surpass all other speakers.

In short, Karl is a genius, and every product from EPOS and FINKTEAM is incredibly outstanding and worth purchasing without hesitation.

I hope you didn't apply such filters on your Epos:

 

[Ktacos]

not sure I'd consider any speaker with typical dispersion mismatch we see in most bookshelves as state of the art.

 

[test1223]

not sure I'd consider any speaker with typical dispersion mismatch we see in most bookshelves as state of the art.

The Revel M106 is so similar that I think they will sound similar. There is not only one state of the art loudspeaker since there are many different categories where one or another speakers is better. The Epos speaker most likely will sound good. From what I have heard and read the enclosure is very good and this is one important part of a very good loudspeaker. Most highly praised speakers here don't have such a heavy and resonance free enclosure since they are more optimized towards a good bass for its size performance...

 

[Ktacos]

I can never make sense of these overlaid graphs, which speakers is which?

Every speaker I've heard that doesn't have a di mismatch sounds better to me than ones that do, I find imaging nearly impossible to get right on mismatched speakers, it's just kind of nebulous. These things cost way more than 2 ways that don't have di issues. Price is kind of nuts for a simple 2 way. Just not seeing what the excitement is about with this speaker.

 

[test1223]

I can never make sense of these overlaid graphs, which speakers is which?

Every speaker I've heard that doesn't have a di mismatch sounds better to me than ones that do, I find imaging nearly impossible to get right on mismatched speakers, it's just kind of nebulous. These things cost way more than 2 ways that don't have di issues. Price is kind of nuts for a simple 2 way. Just not seeing what the excitement is about with this speaker.

All dashed line belong to the Epos and alle continues lines to the Revel.

From my experience it is very important in which frequency band the di wiggles happen and how big the wiggles are. There are some wiggles which even sound only different but also good compared with a more linear di and some which are annoying or bad. Also the room acoustics are very important. The tonality of the first reflections are more important than some di wiggles. So it isn't easy at all to judge a speaker by its spinorama measurements and from my experience there are only very few people who can do it.

The lack of judgement is also displayed in the predicted preferences score, which is high for the Epos and your judgement is low. The predicted preferences score has some flaws but is much better than the "score" of most people here...

 

[totti1965]

Virtual HiFi has made a video where you can listen to the Finkteam Kim virtually. Use IEM or headphones.
The Quality of the video is amazing! The sound of the Kim is amazing also!
The best part: there is video of the Epos ES 14 also!
The ES 14 is great also but much less bright / analytical than the Kim.
Use the EQ that spinorama.org uses and the Epos ES 14 will sound as good as the Kim or even better!
EUR 4.600,— / pair for the Epos ES 14 N and EUR 14.000,— / pair for the Kim.

 

[totti1965]

Audiosciencereview member @petrenkas (his name is Anton) and me are owners of the HobbyHifi WaveMon 182/22.
Anton has build the speaker 2 months ago completely by hisself. I bought mine directly from Bernd Timmermanns who is the editor of German Selfbuilder Magazin HobbyHifi. Mr. Timmermanns sells sometimes the speakers he has build for his magazine (Laboratory sale). So I have extremely good MLSSA measurements from exactly the speakers I own now.

You can build the WaveMon 182/22 for a price from EUR 1.000,— to EUR 1.200,—/ pair by yourself!!!

Anton has made 3 very short YouTube videos. Not 100 % the sound quality of the virtualHifi videos (which are taken in a beautiful room with 2 Schoeps Microphones very close to the speakers), but with headphones you can imagine why we think that these Bernd Timmermanns WaveMon 182/22 Speakers are close competitors to the Karl-Heinz Fink Epos ES 14 N and also the Finkteam Kim Speakers…..

I heard the videos with my IEM (Crinacle Zero red) and find it very impressing! Crisp, fast and analytical. I hope so much that you guys like the sound signature also!

I hope, I can find the time to send them to Amir for further examination….

 

[totti1965]

And here a photo from my listening position in my bedroom -
The WiiM Pro Plus and the Fosi V3 Amplifier are under the bed.
Today I have listened to Gustav Mahler, Nina Hagen, Glenn Gould and Adriano Celentano…….

 

[Ktacos]

what tweeter is that in the wavemon?

 

[totti1965]

Wavecor TW022WA05 - it is without ferrofluid

 

[dogmamann]

View attachment 385519
The Revel M106 is so similar that I think they will sound similar. There is not only one state of the art loudspeaker since there are many different categories where one or another speakers is better. The Epos speaker most likely will sound good. From what I have heard and read the enclosure is very good and this is one important part of a very good loudspeaker. Most highly praised speakers here don't have such a heavy and resonance free enclosure since they are more optimized towards a good bass for its size performance...

When I listened to the es14n, it gave me the mixed vibes of bass presence that you typically get from very large drivers, and although it’s a large stand mounter, I felt like it sounded like a large floorstander. The store guys where I listened to them were very clever to keep them next to very large Quadral aurums. In comparison, it sounded quite like the Quadral but with bit rolled off lows. Again, i would assume that the es27n would be a damn good floorstander even though I prefer the aesthetics of fink team products than Epos. I am into modern looking speakers