Denon AVR-X6700H AVR Review (Updated)

[peng]

I can confirm the Marantz is far more musical, it's simply exquisite, and oozes musical goodness over the inferior Denon lineup.
At least that's what most dealers tell me.

Yeah, I had, and still have both. So I know how sweet sounding the Marantz actually were, my eyes made that clear to me.

 

[AllTaken]

Yeah, I had, and still have both. So I know how sweet sounding the Marantz actually were, my eyes made that clear to me.

Given Amir was shown measurements of the 8805 placing it in good standing, would you, both options considered, take an 8805 over the 8500/6700?

 

[F1308]

Big stereo gear companies like Denon and others don't keep records on who buys what and their contact details. It appears ASR is a case where Denon admitted the circuitry change exists. I doubt most users-owners will even notice the difference and will happily live on in without the circuitry change.

A registration is usually required to grant a guarantee.
You serve products to retailers.
Retailers do sell products and they should be advised of any issues.
Payments are made after a ticket is received.
Tickets do reflect what products were bought; their prices; the discounts, if any; and the taxes.

No excuses...

 

[peng]

Given Amir was shown measurements of the 8805 placing it in good standing, would you, both options considered, take an 8805 over the 8500/6700?

If the price is the same I would take the 8500, say for up to $2,500. Otherwise I am more attracted to the 4700 because I thought their overall test results were very good and 7.1.4 is all my room can take unless I move but if I move again it would be to a smaller house.

 

[F1308]

Amir, thank you for the hard work put into the so in depth testing and even troubleshooting so many D&M AVRs/AVPs.

If I were Denon, I would have hired you as their 3rd party independent consultant/advisor on continuous improvements of their products already. Even now, I am confident the next Denon, and Marantz generation will hit the 100 dB SINAD mark for both analog and digital inputs, and amps would do better than at least 85 dB as well. That's because they now know there are hundreds of ASR members plus more on the likes of AH, AVF, AVSF forums watching the bench test results. Before you, there were only AH and HTFI giving them independent bench test feedbacks, along with often mild mannered (just my perception) criticism and apparently behind the scene requests for improvements.

I have no doubt, we the consumers will benefit from your hard work (nights and weekend shifts obviously). Sound United would likely benefit from your efforts too as I am sure it will help in crease their sales volume in the long run, assuming I am right in anticipating that they will react to (and act on) positively to ASR members comments that could be very blunt, borderline on being harsh or even a little unfair at times.

As soon as anyone is hired, everything can be kept bar independence.

 

[peng]

As soon as anyone is hired, everything can be kept bar independence.

I know, but there may be ways..

 

[DL325]

I had a very loud hum when I connected my Denon AVR-X3600H to the Sprout 100 amp using generic red/white RCA cables. The hum resolved as soon as I switched to KabelDirekt Double-shielded Pro series I got from Amazon, but I can't say for sure what it was that really helped.

 

[AllTaken]

Perhaps a donation for his findings in future, a thank you and contribution to his work.

 

[Dmitri]

Though this issue I apparently Covid related, its also an “early adopter” issue. The risk for faults, as companies rush their equipment into a competitive market...is always higher. Usually problems can be solved with updates...but constantly changing technology...or at least the appearance of perceived added value of a newer model drives companies to put their products out before they are adequately tested...or even causes them to launch them with known faults.

My old Arcam AVR 100 comes to mind...and it took a number of updates to get my Anthem AVR sorted out. Owning early model Nikon SLR’s has been a frustrating experience for more than a few people, including me.

Early adopter faults are endemic. It feels like we are the unwitting beta testers sometimes. The fact that Denon may have delivered a faulty product to market, perhaps knowingly ...Covid related or not, does not particularly separate them from the pack. It’s not good practice, but it’s unfortunately not an unusual one.

To disclude Denon as a potential choice for one’s next receiver because of this issue is not going to change the risk one takes with another product. In fact, their willingness to correct the issue is heartening. Whether or not one chooses to question their transparency. they followed up on the problem with Amir and fixed it. That speaks well for Denon in my book.

Thank you Amir for an excellent review and follow up.

 

[AllTaken]

If the price is the same I would take the 8500, say for up to $2,500. Otherwise I am more attracted to the 4700 because I thought their overall test results were very good and 7.1.4 is all my room can take unless I move but if I move again it would be to a smaller house.

I'm surprised you wouldn't choose the Marantz.

 

[bo_knows]

You hit the nail on the head!! Another example of that is, in that video (that highlighted the SR8015), Phil (forgot his last name, but the same Denon gentleman who was in the Denon video) made it clear that under the same conditions, Denon and Marantz such as the 6700 vs 8015 would sound different, though he never said whether that "difference" could be heard by ears, or both ears and eyes. The Marantz design team person also "confirm" Denon sound punchy and Marantz sounds musical, but again did not define and/or cause the "musical" sound.

I'm still wrestling with the "musical" part of the sound. It there's a known formula for making the sound more musical? Why is Denon or other companies not using it? I read this all the time from the reviewers, Denon (in my case avr-x8500h) is not as good for the two-channel music listening when compared to Marantz, Anthem and Arcam. The same Sound United team in the mentioned video made me feel like I bought a subpar receiver since Marantz sounds "better" because it has better parts.

 

[AllTaken]

I'm still wrestling with the "musical" part of the sound. It there's a known formula for making the sound more musical? Why is Denon or other companies not using it? I read this all the time from the reviewers, Denon (in my case avr-x8500h) is not as good for the two-channel music listening when compared to Marantz, Anthem and Arcam. The same Sound United team in the mentioned video made me feel like I bought a subpar receiver since Marantz sounds "better" because it has better parts.

They have to differentiate the product stack somehow, keeping the difference as mysterious as possible probably works well for them.

 

[Tks]

I'm still wrestling with the "musical" part of the sound. It there's a known formula for making the sound more musical? Why is Denon or other companies not using it? I read this all the time from the reviewers, Denon (in my case avr-x8500h) is not as good for the two-channel music listening when compared to Marantz, Anthem and Arcam. The same Sound United team in the mentioned video made me feel like I bought a subpar receiver since Marantz sounds "better" because it has better parts.

Because they can't, and anything "musical" is almost exclusively down the the recording and mastering process.

I get this same nonsense about "soundstage" all the time from people. And I always ask, show me one driver OEM that validates for "soundstage" as a metric. Or one piece of literature that is used in educational material in schools on how one would create soundstage out of a DAC conversion, or out of a driver.

The only soundstage that exists to me is based mostly on pinna activation, clean sound, channel panning, post processing like echo and reverb, and finally recording type (something like binaural will always sound like it has more "soundstage"), and recording setting (playing in an empty venue will always produce the effect of spaciousness, and while fully treated recording rooms, never do without post processing).

 

[Bello]

One note on temperatures. I had the unit in pre-amp mode for the DAC test and I was pleasantly surprised that it hardly rose above room temperature. So to the extent you use external amplification for all the channels, these AVRs will run cool and comfortable as processors.

@amirm

Once again, another great review! Thank you!

As I expected, w/ many trials and tribulation. We still need to trust but verify Denon. A 3rd test down the road? As we, you initially intended to accomplish. And as you expressed your reliability (truth) concerns to all of us.

I've been a bit outspoken, concerning the component design (positive) of this system vs the lesser models. Now, there is no doubt. The SINAD proof is in the pudding! The purposely DEGRADED, bad SINAD but functional capacitors. I'm certain, half the population that purchased these systems will never know, unless one does a google search. This may have been Denon's goal (kept quite) before reverting back to the spec'd Capacitors. One would ask, has this ever happened before? I bet it has with various companies in this field.

Again, thank you! Mr. CSI!

As far as the amp area heat is concerned, I'm glad you've come to terms as it relates to heat level or lack of pre-amp mode. As I had discovered, first hand, h/w differences concerning the better component and cooler running 6700H.

Upgraded mono block design, better component implementation layout of the overall system.

Lastly- The infamous S/N from the your tested system. All I need is the last 3 digits... As I earlier mentioned, I had Denon level 2 support email me the (lot) last bad s/n and the start of the spec'd capacitor system S/N.

Please, please send us the (last 3 digit) tested s/n. If the system s/n falls inline with Denon's email. I will release the email to everyone.

If possible, I will try to take a peak (pics) inside of both bad / good systems. Once I receive the correctly renewed 6700H, I will report back w/ my findings. It won't be over, until it's over.

Once again, I need evidence as to the reliability of Denon's emailed statement.

You're the best!

Thanks again...

 

[raykkho]

The manufacturer keeps track of serial numbers and dates of manufacture. If you request details Denon might tell what has received the updated circuit change. I would't expect anything but one never knows until trying.

I have no reason not to believe Denon is a stand up company, but perhaps some subtle cosmetic changes like different sticker placement to indicate updated batches would make things easier for shoppers.

 

[ChristianDK]

Does someone know if the issue is/could also be present in the european models (AVC-X6700H)?

 

[Francis Vaughan]

It there's a known formula for making the sound more musical? Why is Denon or other companies not using it?

Plenty of companies do something similar. Not that long ago Amir reviewed both PS Audio and Rowland amplifiers that both contain proprietary input circuits that are really little more than custom distortion generators yielding a house sound, both coupled to common off the shelf amplifiers. But they are a matter of taste. What does "more musical" really mean. Was it not music enough already? A desire to modify the signal by adding typically a bit of low order harmonic distortion says that you are not satisfied with the artistic judgements of the recording's producer and the artists. Somehow you know better. Some people feel they do, or at least they have been convinced that certain purveyors of audio gear know better.
It isn't hard to add a little bit of warmth to the sound, and even a tiny bit of sizzle as well. Even harmonic distortion warms it up, and a bit of third harmonic a bit of sizzle. (Basically this is nothing more than a power chord.) Something as simple as a single ended buffer will get you there. Just needs a bit of tweaking. A very slightly unbalanced differential pair is another good way. The design isn't hard. There is infinite room for tweaking to taste, and therin lies the problem. One person's "more musical" may be another's "annoyingly congested" or just plain bad sound.

 

[bo_knows]

Plenty of companies do something similar. Not that long ago Amir reviewed both PS Audio and Rowland amplifiers that both contain proprietary input circuits that are really little more than custom distortion generators yielding a house sound, both coupled to common off the shelf amplifiers. But they are a matter of taste. What does "more musical" really mean. Was it not music enough already? A desire to modify the signal by adding typically a bit of low order harmonic distortion says that you are not satisfied with the artistic judgements of the recording's producer and the artists. Somehow you know better. Some people feel they do, or at least they have been convinced that certain purveyors of audio gear know better.
It isn't hard to add a little bit of warmth to the sound, and even a tiny bit of sizzle as well. Even harmonic distortion warms it up, and a bit of third harmonic a bit of sizzle. (Basically this is nothing more than a power chord.) Something as simple as a single ended buffer will get you there. Just needs a bit of tweaking. A very slightly unbalanced differential pair is another good way. The design isn't hard. There is infinite room for tweaking to taste, and therin lies the problem. One person's "more musical" may be another's "annoyingly congested" or just plain bad sound.

Thank you Francis, I figured as much and wondering how much influence and bias one reviewer has over another? For example, let's say you are one of the most influential and establish reviewer and you said Anthem is more musical than Denon. If I was to write another review of the same equipment, I would think that my mind would be already precondition to some extent.
In the past, I owned Plinius amplifier that was "musical" because of the way they use transistors. I had my share of hi-end equipment and would just say that Denon sounds excellent (to me) playing through my KEF R500, musical or not. ;-)

 

[Bello]

Does someone know if the issue is/could also be present in the european models (AVC-X6700H)?

I believe they're all in affect, regardless of the country.

6700H all come from Japan, same assembly line.

 

[GXAlan]

Doesn’t this prove with scientific measurement that capacitor can measurably affect SINAD by large amounts, assuming that Denon is honest about the capacitors (which I have no reason to suspect is untrue?)