Newman
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Only the faulty ones. Nothing was upgraded.
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Denon AVR-X6700H AVR Review (Updated)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Do you know what companies do in the months after a new product goes on sale?
The various sites and magazines criticize and measure the devices at this time.
But do you know if in the weeks that follow this or that component is not replaced by another of lower quality or at least of a different quality?
Obviously likely to make noise or filter it less well ... Resistors and capacitors are in this category for example.
And builders protect themselves with a famous formula that appears in all contractual documents ...
Denon does not give the precise change, because the brand fears that those who have the "old" model of 6700 ask for a technical update which, at the cost of an hour of labor, would cost the brand a fortune ...
I’m sorry @amirm, but it definitely is not only the capacitor that changed.. stopband went from -60 to almost -100 dB. I already asked about this in the original review like 3 times.. nobody seemed to care.. now it seems to me again that it is still very relevant. So once again: what’s up with that?
There was the Ken Ishiwata series at Marantz - pure marketing - now there are the ASR approved Denon' models.
The happy Pink Panther is still more serious because not based on a vague copper anodization of chassis or protective covers or discrete AOP....
The happy Pink Panther is still more serious because not based on a vague copper anodization of chassis or protective covers or discrete AOP....
The service depot is paid at a contract rate for regular service. It's significantly less than a hour's labour rate and that's if Denon is not completing the mods themselves.
I used to do mass modifications as part of my business plan and I would accept thousands of units at a time. Pallet loads of stuff. The rate per mod doesn't seem like very much but a decent tech with good organizational skills can make a good day of it after getting the operation organized and memorized. I've seen a tech (me) doing 5 deep internal mods at the mechanism laser RF/DSP board and main board on Alpine car CD players and completing ~120 in a 8 hour day fully assembled. @ $9.50 each that adds up for a decent income. Not all techs can keep up the pace but some can and they earn every penny they make. Imagine completing 5300 of them in 3 batches. Then I did a contract for mass modifying high end car amps for a importer, 1800 units done in 2 batches. Lots of capacitors added. There's money in mass modifications but the wholesalers and importers are very careful about who they allow to do the work and some do it in house if they have the staff to schedule the work in with the regular service repairs.
Thank you for this testimony from the inside, but may I point out that a recall of products for updating already owned by private customers is a completely different logistics which includes transport from the customer's home to the brand's station and then reshipping to the customer and there.
In France an Europe in any case, the price to transport a device that weighs 15 kilos or more increases the bill ...
And for the time spent on each device it all depends on where the component is because if this is a series of SMD capacitors, it will not be as easy as changing capacitors and through resistors ...
Oh boy... lol.. you haven't seen a good technician unsolder and then solder in new SMD resisters and SMD capacitors. If you look away you might miss the event. It's pretty quick.
All true. Usually the manufacturers rely on the customer bringing the unit in for service or playing the shipping one way.
Yes and no. Sony for example had production so organized it could design and manufacture without making different versions before final assembly. It was rumoured that some engineering depts("teams") had direct control over the stuffing and mechanical assembly and they could design and then go to production without prototyping. That's very organized but it does create issues that are rampant across many units. The warranty service depts would execute the "Service Bulletins" (Basically mods) when the customers brought the unit in with unrelated or related complaints.
In today's market there are very few if any service departments and many products are on a exchange basis. It's less expensive than maintaining a vast parts inventory, producing service manuals and having accounts all over the country that require constant administration over.
Denon generally has slightly better product than Sony but it's so similar(EDIT it "was at one time") in some cases one might think they come out of the same factory.
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Vasr
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We don't really know the number of units so affected, their handling would depend on that number.
1. If it is a few hundred or so, then they might just ask the customers who contact them to ship it back (or work with the dealer where it was purchased) and they would replace with a new one rather than work out any field repair logistics.
2. If it is a bit more than that, they might just do a board swap of the affected board using nearest authorized centers. These are very quick to do and the cost of an individual board to Denon is not high. This is what Samsung does for their TVs these days. No individual component repair. This allows them to contract out to relatively low tech field people for in-house repairs.
3. The only time they would consider an individual component replacement like a capacitor is if the volume of affected units is so high that they cannot ship enough replacement boards for all. I doubt this is the case here. A problem with this solution for Denon is that it would be difficult for them to assure the quality of repair and assume all liability for that repair. So, a solution of last resort.
My guess is that they are trying to do 1 above and limiting replacements by not making public announcements and hoping most people wouldn't notice or be aware.
A list of Denon Service Centers in the USA. Not many compared to 20+ years ago. Some are not carry-in.
https://usa.denon.com/en-us/support/servicecentersearch#divSubscribe
OP
- Thread Starter
- #37
Our tests are extremely exacting. They are not what is typically used to qualify AVRs. Hopefully they become the norm in the future and catch these problems.
Detailed and precise review, as always! Nice upgrade, but how can Denon warrant that all new buyers will get the "right" one? If they get out from shelf or stock?
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restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Not "pure marketing". Clever marketing, and in general, excellent products that ranged from a medium step up, to an enormous leap above their run-of-the-mill gear.
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