Denon AVR-X4800H released for Sale

[Joffy1780]

What DAC chip do the 3800 and 4800 actually use, I can't seem to find out (I haven't done a great deal of investigation, I'll be honest).

 

[Joffy1780]

Remember, given the limitation of the same dac chip, but better layout/build quality, it will be about 1 to 2 dB better in pre out/dac SINAD than the 3800, so expect that, but hope for better. Then you can then relax while waiting.

Well that remains to be seen, it could very well be 1-2 db worse

 

[bob5200]

What DAC chip do the 3800 and 4800 actually use, I can't seem to find out (I haven't done a great deal of investigation, I'll be honest).

They both use PCM5102A, along with the revised X6700h and x2800h.

 

[peng]

Well that remains to be seen, it could very well be 1-2 db worse

Agreed. One would buy the 4800 for the better build and features, not better SINAD.

 

[Joffy1780]

They both use PCM5102A, along with the revised X6700h and x2800h.

Thank you.

 

[RF Air]

Remember, given the limitation of the same dac chip, but better layout/build quality, it will be about 1 to 2 dB better in pre out/dac SINAD than the 3800, so expect that, but hope for better. Then you can then relax while waiting.

There was a comment from the Denon release video that was optimistic. The Japanese built Denon allowed for better QC and production upgrades which may be fluff, but seems probable. In my fantasy world, it would be great to see production line change with DAC's if TI had a comparable upgraded DAC replacement with greater SINAD benefits without reengineering the PCB Architecture.

Seeing the changes they made with the A1H where the DAC Digital and Analog Path Grounds are separate with independent PS showed a 5 to 8 dB improvement over the X8500HA SINAD. Something like this may happen, possibly in the next round of releases for a 4800, fantasy again. I guess I'll keep my expectations closer to "3" dB with a fantasy of 5 dB improvement, hoping the Jitter clock gives us something unexpected. Thanks @peng for keeping me grounded in reality, pun unintentional but fun!

 

[peng]

There was a comment from the Denon release video that was optimistic. The Japanese built Denon allowed for better QC and production upgrades which may be fluff, but seems probable. In my fantasy world, it would be great to see production line change with DAC's if TI had a comparable upgraded DAC replacement with greater SINAD benefits without reengineering the PCB Architecture.

Seeing the changes they made with the A1H where the DAC Digital and Analog Path Grounds are separate with independent PS showed a 5 to 8 dB improvement over the X8500HA SINAD. Something like this may happen, possibly in the next round of releases for a 4800, fantasy again. I guess I'll keep my expectations closer to "3" dB with a fantasy of 5 dB improvement, hoping the Jitter clock gives us something unexpected. Thanks @peng for keeping me grounded in reality, pun unintentional but fun!

Thank you understanding. If they changed the dac chip in the last minute without telling people then it could be a nice surprise.

 

[sask15]

Peng, maybe you know something we don’t…. No, I have the 4800 and it sounds great regardless of what‘s in it. A great review would top it off though. Thanks

 

[peng]

Peng, maybe you know something we don’t…. No, I have the 4800 and it sounds great regardless of what‘s in it. A great review would top it off though. Thanks

I am sure the 4800 sounds great regardless of the dac chip that isn't great on paper. Yes, it will still be nice to see some good bench test results because subjective reviews mean little.

 

[RF Air]

Amir has started the X4800H testing and is conferring with Denon for confirmation of his test results. It may take a week before Denon responds to Amir and then he'll post the Test Review. Comparatively, he commented that overall, there is a bit of degradation relative to last generation (4700), but nothing like X3800H (vs. 3700). For me, this is better than expected news.

 

[sask15]

Yes that is great news if he means original AKM 4700 to 4800. I guess it was the only 4700 he tested so must be. Hopefully you still have a bit of time to listen to it and return it if you aren‘t happy with your 4800.

 

[techsamurai]

Amir has started the X4800H testing and is conferring with Denon for confirmation of his test results. It may take a week before Denon responds to Amir and then he'll post the Test Review. Comparatively, he commented that overall, there is a bit of degradation relative to last generation (4700), but nothing like X3800H (vs. 3700). For me, this is better than expected news.

Do we know what DACs the 4800H uses?

 

[peng]

Amir has started the X4800H testing and is conferring with Denon for confirmation of his test results. It may take a week before Denon responds to Amir and then he'll post the Test Review. Comparatively, he commented that overall, there is a bit of degradation relative to last generation (4700), but nothing like X3800H (vs. 3700). For me, this is better than expected news.

Haha, so my prediction that it may be a couple dB better probably came true. If it touches 90 dB, it will be great and means D+M has done a great job implementing the TI chip that is only spec'ed for 93 dB SINAD. I hope you still have enough time to return it if for any reasons you don't want to keep it, but I think in North America, this is a real keeper, given that it is priced $1,001 less than the equivalent Cinema 40. Again, in Europe, the difference is only $200 to 300, for example, in France the difference between it and the C40 is Euro 201. You probably got it for less than the list price too.

Thank you for fast tracking the hint about just a bit of degradation, that is enough for me, an experienced D+M long time users to say this is the AVR to beat! I am happy with my Anthem AVM70, but might have gone with the 4800 if it was available at the time.

 

[peng]

Do we know what DACs the 4800H uses?

It has been posted many times that they all use the TI chip, the PCM5102A, right from the source (links and pictures posted). Only the A1H and the A10 have the luxury to use the ES9018K2M. I guess you are still hoping for miracle, that they might have made a change for the production models. If the audio community presses them hard on forums and/or email their customer supports, they may do that eventually (something like that had been done in the past) but I doubt it will happen any time soon.

Denon AVR-X3800H Review

Knowing how Dirac licensing works I highly doubt that receivers in the price range of the 3800 (and its Marantz sibling) will get anything more than basic Dirac Live (as it happens with Onkyos). I'd be very suprised if they'd get Bass Control for single subwoofer, I would bet money that they'll...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[CyrusTheGreat_600BC]

Amir has started the X4800H testing and is conferring with Denon for confirmation of his test results. It may take a week before Denon responds to Amir and then he'll post the Test Review. Comparatively, he commented that overall, there is a bit of degradation relative to last generation (4700), but nothing like X3800H (vs. 3700). For me, this is better than expected news.

It’s interesting that receivers have become like wine now. There’s a good year, bad year, and run as fast you can year!

 

[sask15]

Hopefully just a bit of degradation with the dacs with most if not all of the other tests being as good if not better than the 4700 due to the pretty much entire redesign and Japan build.

 

[techsamurai]

Thank you for fast tracking the hint about just a bit of degradation, that is enough for me, an experienced D+M long time users to say this is the AVR to beat! I am happy with my Anthem AVM70, but might have gone with the 4800 if it was available at the time.

I think the Sony 3000ES and 5000ES are going to be the AVRs to beat because of spatial audio.

I suspect it's going to be very hard to go to another AVR after hearing the Sony. It'd be like going Dolby TrueHD to Dolby Pro Logic.

Plus, if the Sony TV works well as an extra center channel (timbre matching be darned), it could provide an improvement since those OLEDs with the Acoustic Surface Audio actuators have interesting speakers that can't match a surround system or a soundbar but as an additional center channel speaker may not be that bad for most folks who don't have a full-sized center channel.

 

[GXAlan]

I think the Sony 3000ES and 5000ES are going to be the AVRs to beat because of spatial audio.

I suspect it's going to be very hard to go to another AVR after hearing the Sony. It'd be like going Dolby TrueHD to Dolby Pro Logic.

The Acoustic surface audio is old school proven technology and I bet if they were really smart about just reproducing the vocal frequencies to help with the localization instead of full range, it could be really good.

I do agree that the spatial audio is really exciting. Again, I have had X3500H and am a big enough Marantz fan to run their 2 ch reference products. But the old Trinnov in the R972 and ZA5000 2D sound field processing and Yamaha sound field processing work wonders in my home environment where I am willing to give up all of the EQ benefits of Dirac/XT32 for the benefits of a movie theater like sound field in my home.

I still think that the tech is less important for dedicated home theaters

 

[techsamurai]

It has been posted many times that they all use the TI chip, the PCM5102A, right from the source (links and pictures posted). Only the A1H and the A10 have the luxury to use the ES9018K2M. I guess you are still hoping for miracle, that they might have made a change for the production models. If the audio community presses them hard on forums and/or email their customer supports, they may do that eventually (something like that had been done in the past) but I doubt it will happen any time soon.

Denon AVR-X3800H Review

Knowing how Dirac licensing works I highly doubt that receivers in the price range of the 3800 (and its Marantz sibling) will get anything more than basic Dirac Live (as it happens with Onkyos). I'd be very suprised if they'd get Bass Control for single subwoofer, I would bet money that they'll...

www.audiosciencereview.com

yeah, I mean it's a $2,500 AVR right? It's competing with the Yamaha A6A in price. Powerwise, the A6A is better but it has the "nannies" and I don't know if they are defeatable.

In 5 channels, the Yamaha has ridiculous power for an AVR.

The Yamaha has a much better DAC and seems built well except for the 5th toe in AR's review.

XLR outputs for front pre-out - the Yamaha folks must have read my mind.

Much better symmetrical build for the Yamaha reminiscent of new RN2000A and M5000A stereo amps.

 

[techsamurai]

The Acoustic surface audio is old school proven technology and I bet if they were really smart about just reproducing the vocal frequencies to help with the localization instead of full range, it could be really good.

I do agree that the spatial audio is really exciting. Again, I have had X3500H and am a big enough Marantz fan to run their 2 ch reference products. But the old Trinnov in the R972 and ZA5000 2D sound field processing and Yamaha sound field processing work wonders in my home environment where I am willing to give up all of the EQ benefits of Dirac/XT32 for the benefits of a movie theater like sound field in my home.

yeah, I was wondering how Sony would use it too - do they send a full range signal or select frequencies?

Shane Lee actually used it with 5 speakers but he also added 2 wireless Sony speakers with Atmos. I wish he hadn't because I was curious to hear the impact on 5 channel. The great thing about the Sony is that it applies its own room correction and spatial audio so you can get both.

I still think that the tech is less important for dedicated home theaters

Probably right but surprisingly the Sony ES is really installer friendly - I almost wish they hadn't spend any effort on that and instead plopped it into improvements to the non-installer users. I suppose Sony views it as a great solution for low-end to mid-range dedicated theaters.