Danny at GR getting bad Talk Back from many of his viewers

[GM3]

It's all about trust. Why would anyone trust someone who associated with Mark L. Schifter and who at worse willfully tries to deceive his audience and at best is plainly incompetent?

Spoiler: Schifty Schifter, cult, crooks and associations

The Schifter thing might seem somewhat a stretch; but even during the old days, some of us could smell the cult nature of av123.com, and again, for me at least personally, Schifter always reeked of charlatanry. So while it is possible that one might be unaware or oblivious to all of it; and just associate as per a financial decision, I still believe that who you choose to associate with speaks a lot about your own nature.

Ex; this website is technically driven and rejects audiofool BS. So the people who have this sort of nature will conglomerate together. But on the other hand, people who are more about hocus pocus, about deluding themselves into raving about $500 power cables and the such, will go to head-fi or whatever where there will be other raving lunatics and where terms like "blind tests" have been banned, with those uttering the word being threatened with exile.

So yeah, I hate to say this, but Danny Richie is a crook, and crooks will associate with one another. That doesn't mean that he's never sold or designed a good speaker. But it's obvious to see that he isn't an honest actor, he is 100% trying to deceive his audience and sell them snake-oil, and so should not be trusted. The issue is that like other charlatans / snake-oil vendors of his type, he's somewhat charismatic and most of his audience isn't technically proficient enough to see through his BS.

So, he can be somewhat convincing for the gullible and easily influenceable. Sadly, belief is more often associated with persuasiveness or personal desires rather than rational thought. And human nature being what it is, many are happy to be deceived; all about confirmation bias rather than finding out the truth. Most people are trustful and happy to be deceived, or happy to deceive themselves.

I think I'm more of an exception; being skeptic at heart, and somewhat autistic and distrustful lol And worse, I think that the truth is important, and am willing to do what I can to reach it. Even if it means wasting hours or days discussing/arguing/researching instead of something 'useful'... I think most people here are somewhat similar, or smart and educated enough not to be deceived.

Similar people associate with one another, and past association of Schifter & Danny Richie should not be so quickly dismissed, especially given Danny's current and continual failures and/or deceptions. I think it's very obvious, and honestly, surprised most people don't see through it.

Spoiler: Earlier comments on this Danny Saga

Another guy on Youtube going to visit Danny down in texas....

8 out of 10 is significant. Only a 5% chance of getting it right by guessing. The issue is this was a massively flawed blind test. Video coming. 8/10 equates to a 0.055 (5.5%,, or 6% if you round to single digits) chance that the null hypothesis (no difference) is not true. If the usual " p...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Another guy on Youtube going to visit Danny down in texas....

sooner or later everyone in audio business will realize that selling high price cables is the most profitable way to do business. and nobody will buy your $300 or more cables if you are not marketing it as "vastly improved the sound". the only difference is if someone has enough conscience to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Another guy on Youtube going to visit Danny down in texas....

8 out of 10 is significant. Only a 5% chance of getting it right by guessing. The issue is this was a massively flawed blind test. Video coming. 8/10 equates to a 0.055 (5.5%,, or 6% if you round to single digits) chance that the null hypothesis (no difference) is not true. If the usual " p...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Danny's ASR "Will you ACCEPT my Challenge?!"

Now he has a "New" challenge, and I am quite tired of all of this. Needless challenges and explanations all for what???

www.audiosciencereview.com

Danny's ASR "Will you ACCEPT my Challenge?!"

Yeah pretty much. This is my history for my ~300k view channel. It's about exactly $1/1000 views. It's annoying how they withhold payment until you hit $100. I haven't posted in years, so it's going to be a while. I use uBlock Origin. yup. He's not makin bank on Youtube. He's makin bank...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Another guy on Youtube going to visit Danny down in texas....

I get my speaker cables at Home Depot. It's the stuff made for wiring RV's sound systems, 12 GA. I have the same supplier. :D I get the 12 gauge meant to be used for powering outdoor lighting or sprinklers. At one time, I used their orange outdoor heavy duty extension cords with the ends cut...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[fpitas]

Oh my. Can another flame-off between Amir and Danny be far behind?

 

[ctrl]

This is the ONE of a few I found to not match up well at all. The Wharfedale Linton.

I put links only to the plots, too lazy to capture the images, but we are talking a good bit more than a slight variance here. Enough that Erin's looks close to perfect, and Danny's looks like it NEEDS fixed........a bit extreme.

There is some information missing to really compare the measurements (beside the different scaling and smoothing mentioned by Rick).

Was the grille on or off during the measurements, what was used as the reference axis for the measurements (tweeter, between tweeter and midrange,...), what distance do the measurements refer to,...?

Only when these points (and others that I have already mentioned in the last post, such as comparable ambient temperature,...) were identical or comparable for both measurements, a comparison of the measurements can be made.
Even if there are significant deviations, the cause may be series tolerances of the FR of the loudspeaker if the DUT was not identical too.

Conversely, if one of Danny's measurements agrees very well with Erin's or Amir's (on- and off-axis), the chance that something is wrong with Danny's measuring equipment is very small (because then none of the measurements would match).

 

[RickS]

There is some information missing to really compare the measurements (beside the different scaling and smoothing mentioned by Rick).

Was the grille on or off during the measurements, what was used as the reference axis for the measurements (tweeter, between tweeter and midrange,...), what distance do the measurements refer to,...?

Only when these points (and others that I have already mentioned in the last post, such as comparable ambient temperature,...) were identical or comparable for both measurements, a comparison of the measurements can be made.
Even if there are significant deviations, the cause may be series tolerances of the FR of the loudspeaker if the DUT was not identical too.

Conversely, if one of Danny's measurements agrees very well with Erin's or Amir's (on- and off-axis), the chance that something is wrong with Danny's measuring equipment is very small (because then none of the measurements would match).

…and yes, conditions matter too ofc!

p.s. btw, also did this once for Amir on the LGK2 and his measures and Danny‘s were close.

 

[fpitas]

…and yes, conditions matter ofc!

Yes, just because Danny has good equipment does not automatically make his measurements accurate.

 

[beagleman]

Danny’s SPL range is only 25 dB vs (more typical) 50 dB from Erin’s measure…

The correct way to compare these is to get Erin’s Klippel data and then change its smoothing to 1/3 octave and scaling to 25 dB.

I mean I get all of that.
But,in the end are you kind of semi defending his ways? j/k

I mean my true point being, he is modding speakers based on all of those variables, so is he getting a more accurate end result, for whatever the variations?
I would think LESS accurate for sure.

I totally trust Erin and his procedures which I know for sure, so Danny or his way of measuring or something is more the wild card in my mind.
But in the end, Danny is modding the sound based on his own measurements, and while I get the possible reasons for his variances, for sure, how can one sell expensive mods, based on something that varies?

 

[MAB]

I mean I get all of that. But in the end are you kind of semi defending his ways?

I mean my point being, he is modding speakers based on all of those variables, so is he getting a more or less accurate end result, for whatever the variations?

I totally trust Erin and his procedures which I know for sure, so Danny or his way of measuring or something is more the wild card in my mind.

No, if you zoom in on Erin's data, or zoom out on Danny's data, you will see that this Warfdale is a rather nice and flat measuring speaker from both sets of measurements, and the measurements are close, and perhaps we are comparing grill on vs. grill off, in which case even closer. (I did, just too lazy to post my freehand interpretations of Danny's rough measurements, and for sure they are rough). I have my own theory on why Danny presents data with the scale and smoothing, and it isn't about utility!

Look, you don't have to compare Danny's to Erins, or any other measurements. You can compare Danny to Danny and ask yourself is a thousand bucks worth it to have the response of a pair of Lintons modified? Also, are iron-core inductors bad? (conversely are air-core inductors good? answer: they are not.) You can pay Danny $1042 as opposed to using PEQ to adjust your Lintons in your room. You can get a MiniDSP or an AVR for less than Danny charges and get a better result.

 

[GM3]

Guys, I just figured it out. And I'm surprised none of you big brain heads figured this out before: Danny is using his own power cables. They can filter out noise and highlight issues with speakers, especially if they're not using the top quality binding posts, wires, and upgrade kits he sells. That's where the differences come from. Mystery solved.

I mean I get all of that.
But,in the end are you kind of semi defending his ways? j/k

I mean my true point being, he is modding speakers based on all of those variables, so is he getting a more accurate end result, for whatever the variations?
I would think LESS accurate for sure.

I totally trust Erin and his procedures which I know for sure, so Danny or his way of measuring or something is more the wild card in my mind.
But in the end, Danny is modding the sound based on his own measurements, and while I get the possible reasons for his variances, for sure, how can one sell expensive mods, based on something that varies?

btw Armin reviewed one of their upgrades; https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...klipsch-rp-600m-upgrade-review-speaker.35326/

The flaw in stock RP-600M is so obvious and so is the solution [...] Overall, this is a job well done by GR Research and I am going to recommend it to owners if they are not inclined to use my software EQ fix.

BUT... What is crucial with GR Research and Danny, is that the snake-oil portion of the kit drives up the cost likely exponentially. In this case, a pair of spanking new speakers cost $549/pair for Ebony, and their upgrade is 244$, plus likely whatever potential taxes, shipping, brokerage, etc., fees involved... So right away, is it worth it? How much of that $$$ is snake-oil and 100% wasted money? And 50% speaker cost??

Again, you have to come back to whether or not you should trust that person... Whether or not his measurements or accurate, there is just too much info that you should not trust in such snake-oil salesmen, as he will sell you overpriced junk like $60 binding posts or $500 power cables... So accuracy of his measurements; my 2cents would be that they shouldn't be that bad, but you should still stay away and not touch with a 10 foot pole.

If you really want a crossover fix or 'upgrade', I would look elsewhere. Not specifically because I think Danny is totally incompetent, can't measure and can't fix a crossover with obvious flaws, but because you'll end up being ripped off in the end with bogus overpriced snake oil junk even if the crossover fix is good. It's like a rigged game; The only way to win is not to play. Even if the measurements/fix are perfect, you still end up losing in the end because of overpriced snake-oil. So no sane individual should risk it to begin with...

[edit] And yeah, the risk that because GR's mod is based on 1 specific speaker sample, there could be multiple issue, measurements or otherwise, and something could not work out as well as you'd expect. This case with tweeter issue highlights the risks involved with such mod. In above Klipsh case, turned out well, in others, differences might not be very significant, or involve tradeoffs, which may or may not please different people...

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Can anyone make a graph comparing upgrade kit price vs. speaker price?

 

[ta240]

Oh my. Can another flame-off between Amir and Danny be far behind?

Few things strengthen someone's base like an attack on their 'beliefs'.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Guys, I just figured it out. And I'm surprised none of you big brain heads figured this out before: Danny is using his own power cables. They can filter out noise and highlight issues with speakers, especially if they're not using the top quality binding posts, wires, and upgrade kits he sells. That's where the differences come from. Mystery solved.



btw Armin reviewed one of their upgrades; https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...klipsch-rp-600m-upgrade-review-speaker.35326/


BUT... What is crucial with GR Research and Danny, is that the snake-oil portion of the kit drives up the cost likely exponentially. In this case, a pair of spanking new speakers cost $549/pair for Ebony, and their upgrade is 244$, plus likely whatever potential taxes, shipping, brokerage, etc., fees involved... So right away, is it worth it? How much of that $$$ is snake-oil and 100% wasted money? And 50% speaker cost??

Again, you have to come back to whether or not you should trust that person... Whether or not his measurements or accurate, there is just too much info that you should not trust in such snake-oil salesmen, as he will sell you overpriced junk like $60 binding posts or $500 power cables... So accuracy of his measurements; my 2cents would be that they shouldn't be that bad, but you should still stay away and not touch with a 10 foot pole.

If you really want a crossover fix or 'upgrade', I would look elsewhere. Not specifically because I think Danny is totally incompetent, can't measure and can't fix a crossover with obvious flaws, but because you'll end up being ripped off in the end with bogus overpriced snake oil junk even if the crossover fix is good. It's like a rigged game; The only way to win is not to play. Even if the measurements/fix are perfect, you still end up losing in the end because of overpriced snake-oil. So no sane individual should risk it to begin with...

[edit] And yeah, the risk that because GR's mod is based on 1 specific speaker sample, there could be multiple issue, measurements or otherwise, and something could not work out as well as you'd expect. This case with tweeter issue highlights the risks involved with such mod. In above Klipsh case, turned out well, in others, differences might not be very significant, or involve tradeoffs, which may or may not please different people...

It's silly stupid measuring a single old speaker and base an entirely new crossover on that without consideration for flaws and age related issues that may or may not be at play.
Crazy.

 

[Purité Audio]

Oh my. Can another flame-off between Amir and Danny be far behind?

I propose a dance off now that is a video I would watch.
Keith

 

[Astoneroad]

I propose a dance off now that is a video I would watch.
Keith

Sorry... I'd have to demand a refund if that occurs.

 

[fpitas]

Could you please give a hint if this is serious or satire?

That was his first and last post. A man of few words.

 

[DanielT]

Guys, I just figured it out. And I'm surprised none of you big brain heads figured this out before: Danny is using his own power cables. They can filter out noise and highlight issues with speakers, especially if they're not using the top quality binding posts, wires, and upgrade kits he sells. That's where the differences come from. Mystery solved.

And hey folks even better cables via cryo freezing!

 

[Cbdb2]

Also, are iron-core inductors bad? (conversely are air-core inductors good? answer: they are not.)

Iron core inductors have hysteresis and can saturate, whats wrong with air core?

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Iron core inductors can saturate, whats wrong with air core?

The way I took it, @MAB wasn't saying that there was something wrong with air core. I believe he was saying that blind acceptance or rejection is not in order; instead, the good or the bad lies in the design and iteration of the crossover by someone who understands the strengths and limitations of the items they're dealing with.

Jim

 

[MAB]

Iron core inductors can saturate, whats wrong with air core?

Yes they can. Air core do have higher DCR. Either can be a problem or a non-issue depending on implementation. Neither is 'good' or 'bad', or 'cheesy' as Danny likes to say.

 

[MAB]

The way I took it, @MAB wasn't saying that there was something wrong with air core. I believe he was saying that blind acceptance or rejection is not in order; instead, the good or the bad lies in the design and iteration of the crossover by someone who understands the strengths and limitations of the items they're dealing with.

Jim

Exactly.

Danny talks about 'component quality' and like opamp-rollers talk about esoteric (and often inappropriate) opamp implementations.

 

[Cbdb2]

Yes the can. Air core do have higher DCR. Either can be a problem or a non-issue depending on implementation. Neither is 'good' or 'bad', or 'cheesy' as Danny likes to say.

DCR can be the same using larger gauge wire. But agree its all about implementation.