Danny at GR getting bad Talk Back from many of his viewers

[Deleted member 48726]

Don't underestimate the effect of gravitational waves on speaker crossovers!

 

[MAB]

Hi MAB,

I am facing up the same problem with my Linkwitz Orion tweeters - they are more than 20 years old and sound "dull" without the life and highs. Initially, I was looking for some xover or amp problem, but it seems that dry ferrofluid is the reason (I did not opened the tweeters yet).

So, I ordered the new ferrofluid and will try to replace it.

Hope it will help, thank you for your suggestion.

They are very easy to take apart.
I will say if the ferrofluid is completely dried, these are hard to excavate the sludge.
Good luck!

 

[Matt_Holland]

When Danny mentions time smearing caused by “cheesy parts” is there a known mechanism he is referring to? Is there something that could be measured to show this?

 

[beagleman]

When Danny mentions time smearing caused by “cheesy parts” is there a known mechanism he is referring to? Is there something that could be measured to show this?

In all my years of being into speakers and DIY speakers, I have never heard the term used by other than him.................My honest guess, something he made up, but somehow mildly connected to something that could be semi-real, but not in the application of actual sound produced by a speaker, at least in the manner he uses the term.

 

[Matt_Holland]

In all my years of being into speakers and DIY speakers, I have never heard the term used by other than him.................My honest guess, something he made up, but somehow mildly connected to something that could be semi-real, but not in the application of actual sound produced by a speaker, at least in the manner he uses the term.

It’s my understanding that higher quality crossover components have tighter tolerance and higher power handling (= lower THD). That’s it. I guess you could measure and compare THD of the crossovers in isolation into a dummy load

 

[MAB]

When Danny mentions time smearing caused by “cheesy parts” is there a known mechanism he is referring to? Is there something that could be measured to show this?

We would first need to know what he means by time smearing. This is a made-up term, seemingly in order to evoke the idea or feeling that some component is able to modify the timing of the arrival of a signal, I think this is a variant of another made-up pseudo-science term; PRaT.

Capacitors and Inductors do change the phase of an applied signal. But they do so in very predictable ways that allow us to use them, with phase angles and impedances and time constants governed by normal physics. Describing the parts as cheesy is also nonsense. Iron core inductors for instance are not cheesy, they are low DCR inductors, and that is great for some applications. Other applications, air-core are better. Same with capacitors, there isn't a single capacitor to rule them all.

 

[kemmler3D]

We would first need to know what he means by time smearing. This is a made-up term, seemingly in order to evoke the idea or feeling that some component is able to modify the timing of the arrival of a signal, I think this is a variant of another made-up pseudo-science term; PRaT.

Capacitors and Inductors do change the phase of an applied signal. But they do so in very predictable ways that allow us to use them, with phase angles and impedances and time constants governed by normal physics. Describing the parts as cheesy is also nonsense. Iron core inductors for instance are not cheesy, they are low DCR inductors, and that is great for some applications. Other applications, air-core are better. Same with capacitors, there isn't a single capacitor to rule them all.

Yep, this. If there is an impact on phase distortion or frequency response from an out-of-spec crossover component, that could count (IMO) as "time smearing" from "cheesy parts". So if Danny was serious about this, he could easily measure the capacitances and inductances and show that they are out of the range needed to produce a certain response, and thereby quantitatively justify both the idea of 'time smearing' and the need for an upgrade.

Absent that, I am not sure it's worth discussing...

 

[Killingbeans]

It’s my understanding that higher quality crossover components have tighter tolerance and higher power handling (= lower THD). That’s it. I guess you could measure and compare THD of the crossovers in isolation into a dummy load

Here's a ton of measurements on the components themselves:

Audible difference in high-end capacitors? - ABX samples

As announced long ago the last part on the subject of audibility of capacitor upgrade in crossovers. The comparison ranges from a very cheap, decades-old film capacitor to an expensive high-end capacitor. As promised, this time there are short audio samples of each capacitor (in a simple...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Matt_Holland]

We would first need to know what he means by time smearing. This is a made-up term, seemingly in order to evoke the idea or feeling that some component is able to modify the timing of the arrival of a signal, I think this is a variant of another made-up pseudo-science term; PRaT.

Indeed. A definition is needed. And we should be able to measure it. Perhaps in the step response (doubtful) or impulse response?

 

[Matt_Holland]

Here's a ton of measurements on the components themselves:

Audible difference in high-end capacitors? - ABX samples

As announced long ago the last part on the subject of audibility of capacitor upgrade in crossovers. The comparison ranges from a very cheap, decades-old film capacitor to an expensive high-end capacitor. As promised, this time there are short audio samples of each capacitor (in a simple...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Thanks. Will take a look.

 

[MAB]

Thanks. Will take a look.

I was just going to mention this. Very good study, including measurements, answering life's deep questions like "what if I used a nail for a binding post?"

 

[Wolf]

I cant help but think the T25CF001 is not the closest model to what is used in that old speaker. There was a previous T25 tweeter model that did rolloff a bit on the topend, and they stopped selling that one over 10 years ago and replaced with the CF version. I know Jeff B had a set in his original version of his Davids towers, and was never fully pleased with it. The only thing on the web i find close to this former version is on Dave Ralph's Speaker Pages with wool modifications. Comparing to the CF seems to me to be a misguided vector here.

 

[JPA]

Danny measures stuff?

I have no doubt Danny measures stuff. It's easy to measure stuff. What's hard is interpreting the results of those measurements in the correct way, and that is where Danny fails.

 

[JPA]

I propose a dance off now that is a video I would watch.
Keith

In Speedos. Both of them.

 

[Ageve]

I cant help but think the T25CF001 is not the closest model to what is used in that old speaker. There was a previous T25 tweeter model that did rolloff a bit on the topend, and they stopped selling that one over 10 years ago and replaced with the CF version. I know Jeff B had a set in his original version of his Davids towers, and was never fully pleased with it. The only thing on the web i find close to this former version is on Dave Ralph's Speaker Pages with wool modifications. Comparing to the CF seems to me to be a misguided vector here.

I don't know if it's useful, but I took these pictures 16 years ago (unmodified Concert 8, purchased new).



T25 measurement:

MurphyBlaster Productions

murphyblaster.com

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I don't know if it's useful, but I took these pictures 16 years ago (unmodified Concert 8, purchased new).

View attachment 325378 View attachment 325379 View attachment 325380

T25 measurement:

MurphyBlaster Productions

murphyblaster.com

View attachment 325382

"Cheesy"

Excel drivers have a special place in my heart for some reason.

 

[beagleman]

Kind of hard to not pile on, but the speaker on left is John Krute's.....

Zaph|Audio SB12.3, SB Acoustics 12", 3-Way​

The one on right, Danny at GR Research, new "Bully" speaker. Notice anything similar....?

Zaph|Audio SB12.3 ~ SB Acoustics 12", Dual Midrange, 3-Way

Zaph|Audio SB12.3, SB Acoustics 12", 3-Way - Pair. Available at Madisound. Expert advice and competitive pricing. Contact us.

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

“Old School” Bully Kit (Pair) | GR-Research

gr-research.com

Danny's fans are raving about how original the Bully is....

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Kind of hard to not pile on, but the speaker on left is John Krute's.....

Zaph|Audio SB12.3, SB Acoustics 12", 3-Way​

The one on right, Danny at GR Research, new "Bully" speaker. Notice anything similar....?

Zaph|Audio SB12.3 ~ SB Acoustics 12", Dual Midrange, 3-Way

Zaph|Audio SB12.3, SB Acoustics 12", 3-Way - Pair. Available at Madisound. Expert advice and competitive pricing. Contact us.

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

“Old School” Bully Kit (Pair) | GR-Research

gr-research.com

Danny's fans are raving about how original the Bully is....

Well, many speakers are made in driver configuration as this e.g. Cerwin Vega. The originality in The Bully is probably that the woofer is amplified so you only need to drive the mid- and high range. And the crossovers are built-in and high-level so that you just hook it up as with any ordinary passive speaker. Plus the power cable of course.

I actually think GR-Research has thought about this quite well. It's a great idea IMO.

 

[beagleman]

Well, many speakers are made in driver configuration as this e.g. Cerwin Vega. The originality in The Bully is probably that the woofer is amplified so you only need to drive the mid- and high range. And the crossovers are built-in and high-level so that you just hook it up as with any ordinary passive speaker. Plus the power cable of course.

I actually think GR-Research has thought about this quite well. It's a great idea IMO.

Still the idea is not original at all.

Many speakers have had an MTM mid/high speakers with an amplified sub, but usually on the side.

Polk Lsi25
Definitive technology
Golden ear

The front mounting of the amplified sub is the only thing truly unique.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Still the idea is not original at all.

Many speakers have had an MTM mid/high speakers with an amplified sub, but usually on the side.

Polk Lsi25
Definitive technology
Golden ear

The front mounting of the amplified sub is the only thing truly unique.

I don't say it's the first of its kind but it's still quite unique and useful. In any way it can not be directly compared to the one you linked IMO.