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$20k for dream 2.0 or 2.1 rig
- Thread starter mad
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- #102
Your own show report says you have. What did you not like about them? https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...st-for-my-end-game-speaker.38378/post-1562900
Ha! Indeed. I have heard so many speakers past year I lose track. Apparently they were not so memorable
. Clearing out the cobwebs of my memory … They sounded very good, no major issues. But limited in output, especially dynamics. Also, beauty in eye of beholder, but I also think they are ugly. Anyway, if I am going to spend that kind of money, I much rather go with others on my short list, much more performance for the dollar. I would also say I have never been a huge fan of the Seas Mg drivers, though Joseph Audio certainly uses them to great effect.
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- #104
The horn loaded tweeter is too much plastic and looks atrocious. I love the build and think that it looks better than the original.You could just build a pair of M2s as @MAB did
JBL M2 Clone
I recently measured a JBL D2430K compression driver and M2 lens. My goal is to build an M2 clone. The speakers are going to go into individual boxes allowing me to stack the woofer and D2 into an M2, or even include a midrange. I got a pair of B&C 5NDL38 for cheap, and if they don't work I...
The SBS.1 is not cardioid, but that's also not the case for most others on your short list?
I am not sure there is an agreed upon most beneficial frequency band for cardioid to be impactful. Most commercial designs (of which there are not that many) focus on the upper bass and lower midrange, and seem to achieve what could be said to be an impactful effect by this. So from that fact we may assume this is at least part of your answer.
I will thread a bit lightly here since I do not want to comment directly on competing designs, but with the Manta I have chosen to also focus on the midrange with a separate cardioid system, so that total cardioid effect covers an unusually wide range. That being said I've also heard great things about the Geithain (haven't heard them personally), and that's only cardioid below 250-300hz or so if I understand it correctly. And the effect is still profound / sound is still very good. So adding this to our context, it may seem that the way the total system works / is designed may be just as important as the cardioid system in isolation.
And there are of course many systems that aren't cardioid at all and still sound great.
- Thread Starter
- #109
Based on preliminary research and talking to folks like @sigbergaudio and @MKR I will be going with either a Sigberg model or I will wait for the Dutch & Dutch floorstanding model that might just be worth waiting for. Either option are from companies that stand alone in what they do.
Circle of Confusion: Database of Studios and their Monitors
Out of curiosity, I started looking up the mastering/mixing gear used at some of my favorite studios. I thought it might be good to create a master thread where we keep track of what speakers are used where. I haven't separated the recording studio from the mastering/mixing studio, which is...
www.audiosciencereview.com
I am going to be biased and suggest Genelec, Neumann, or Meyer Sound. They are reliable, no fuss options.
Would you have a specific Meyer model recommendation?Circle of Confusion: Database of Studios and their Monitors
Out of curiosity, I started looking up the mastering/mixing gear used at some of my favorite studios. I thought it might be good to create a master thread where we keep track of what speakers are used where. I haven't separated the recording studio from the mastering/mixing studio, which is...
I am going to be biased and suggest Genelec, Neumann, or Meyer Sound. They are reliable, no fuss options.
1) First of, know that "retail" price is not actual price. Even Sweetwater will give you a discount off listed price just for asking. They have a good return policy, with return shipping being what you lose -- but you need to verify since this only applies to the Meyer Sound stuff they have in stock, not the special order items.
2) If I recall, you listened to the Revel Salon 2 and liked but didn't love it. That tells you that the spinorama score alone isn't as predictive for you.
3) Meyer Sound Amie was tested here. Amir gave it golfing panther. That decision to go for different directivity is also done by Genelec S360 and really translates into a superior sound in my room. It genuinely feels like you're in a bigger room somehow.
The measured results are very similar to the Meyer Sound anechoic measurements as predicted by the MAPP XT.
The real magic of the Amie is the way it can integrate with the sub.
The Acheron Designer is a bit smoother in the midrange but the compression driver has that resonance at 9 kHz which disappears with 1/6 octave smoothing.
The key is that if studios are using this to mix their Atmos music or movies, the decisions and EQ/tweaks/saturation/etc. are all built around these types of products.
The Ultra X-20 is used by @Mr. Widget for his 2 ch setup. Again, more squiggles in terms of FR response, but the phase coherency is a step up. Again, the MAPP 3D data is higher resolution than what we've seen with the Klippel NFS and doing 1/6th octave smoothing shows you what you get.
Thanks @GXAlan , really appreciate your recommendations.1) First of, know that "retail" price is not actual price. Even Sweetwater will give you a discount off listed price just for asking. They have a good return policy, with return shipping being what you lose -- but you need to verify since this only applies to the Meyer Sound stuff they have in stock, not the special order items.
2) If I recall, you listened to the Revel Salon 2 and liked but didn't love it. That tells you that the spinorama score alone isn't as predictive for you.
3) Meyer Sound Amie was tested here. Amir gave it golfing panther. That decision to go for different directivity is also done by Genelec S360 and really translates into a superior sound in my room. It genuinely feels like you're in a bigger room somehow.
The measured results are very similar to the Meyer Sound anechoic measurements as predicted by the MAPP XT.
View attachment 335320
The real magic of the Amie is the way it can integrate with the sub.
The Acheron Designer is a bit smoother in the midrange but the compression driver has that resonance at 9 kHz which disappears with 1/6 octave smoothing. View attachment 335322View attachment 335323
The key is that if studios are using this to mix their Atmos music or movies, the decisions and EQ/tweaks/saturation/etc. are all built around these types of products.
The Ultra X-20 is used by @Mr. Widget for his 2 ch setup. Again, more squiggles in terms of FR response, but the phase coherency is a step up. Again, the MAPP 3D data is higher resolution than what we've seen with the Klippel NFS and doing 1/6th octave smoothing shows you what you get.
View attachment 335569
View attachment 335570
Thought for sure you were going to recommend the Bluehorns
(https://meyersound.com/product/bluehorn-system/#overview)And I think @Mr. Widget also has the Bluehorns, or used to anyway. If I were going to go Meyer, that is what I would want, sadly they are well over my budget. But will take a look at the others, thanks again.
And just a correction (though your memory still very close) … I didn’t like the Salon 2, I loved them, one of my favorite all time speakers. If not for them being discontinued, very possible the quest would have ended months ago and they would be sitting in my house now. With that said, I am happy I did not go that direction as what I have heard since is even better to my ears, especially since my discovery of cardioid.
Thought for sure you were going to recommend the Bluehorns
I did recommend those to the guy looking to spend $400K on both his HT and Hi-Fi setup (to include construction costs).
As far as I know, Mr. Widget works for a company that help set clients up with Bluehorns.
The question of course is how close the Bluehorn compares to the Acheron Designer? The difference is a better compression driver and them flying out to do the EQ for you (which is essential too). With the simulations, the Acheron Designer is only a little bit better than the Amie's (admittedly in the midrange) and the issues at the upper frequencies are likely resolved in the Bluehorn's upgraded compression driver compared to the Designer.
That said, Bluehorn at $80K plus costs of Meyer install/tuning? Versus Meyer Amie at <$8K with Dirac, Trinnov, or a PC-based Acourate system if you don't need the SPLs of the Bluehorn? I think it should be surprisingly close.
It's also worth noting that the Bluehorn doesn't show a perfectly flat 20-20 kHz curve... but their focus was "nearly" flat 20-20 kHz response but with really good phase control. They also build everything in-house and still service discontinued products like the HD-1, which solves the repairability issue for you...
Meyer does have a MM4-XPD for directionality. So they do have deployed some of that know-how already but they don't apply it anywhere else in their product line.
I will say, that if you haven't gotten your end game speaker yet (I stopped following that old thread), you should do the Notify when it Stock at a place like Sweetwater. When it's in stock, it should qualify for the 30-day return policy. By the measurements, the Amie and Acheron Designer are nearly the same at lower SPLs which makes the Amie + Amie Sub a formidable option.
It's industrial looking though. That's the main weakness in my opinion.
- Thread Starter
- #117
Have you worked with the Amie / Amie Sub systems before? The industrial look can be great. Meyer makes a smaller mini sub, but it looks to be more for PA systems and information is sparse in some instances.I did recommend those to the guy looking to spend $400K on both his HT and Hi-Fi setup (to include construction costs).
As far as I know, Mr. Widget works for a company that help set clients up with Bluehorns.
The question of course is how close the Bluehorn compares to the Acheron Designer? The difference is a better compression driver and them flying out to do the EQ for you (which is essential too). With the simulations, the Acheron Designer is only a little bit better than the Amie's (admittedly in the midrange) and the issues at the upper frequencies are likely resolved in the Bluehorn's upgraded compression driver compared to the Designer.
That said, Bluehorn at $80K plus costs of Meyer install/tuning? Versus Meyer Amie at <$8K with Dirac, Trinnov, or a PC-based Acourate system if you don't need the SPLs of the Bluehorn? I think it should be surprisingly close.
It's also worth noting that the Bluehorn doesn't show a perfectly flat 20-20 kHz curve... but their focus was "nearly" flat 20-20 kHz response but with really good phase control. They also build everything in-house and still service discontinued products like the HD-1, which solves the repairability issue for you...
Meyer does have a MM4-XPD for directionality. So they do have deployed some of that know-how already but they don't apply it anywhere else in their product line.
I will say, that if you haven't gotten your end game speaker yet (I stopped following that old thread), you should do the Notify when it Stock at a place like Sweetwater. When it's in stock, it should qualify for the 30-day return policy. By the measurements, the Amie and Acheron Designer are nearly the same at lower SPLs which makes the Amie + Amie Sub a formidable option.
It's industrial looking though. That's the main weakness in my opinion.
It was me who sent the Amie into Amir for measurements
The smaller sub (MM10) has a surprising amount of SPL for musical bass and "chest feel" in the 50-60 Hz range. The Amie Sub is nice because it's the one that goes down the most.
I agree -- the Amie looks great in my home -- but I won't pretend that it's as beautiful as the original Sonus Faber Stradivari.
- Thread Starter
- #119
How are you liking them longer term and do you have the Amie subwoofer unit?It was me who sent the Amie into Amir for measurements
The smaller sub (MM10) has a surprising amount of SPL for musical bass and "chest feel" in the 50-60 Hz range. The Amie Sub is nice because it's the one that goes down the most.
I agree -- the Amie looks great in my home -- but I won't pretend that it's as beautiful as the original Sonus Faber Stradivari.
Thanks again for the feedback. If I were going to go with Meyer, it would be the Acheron. But, a full Acheron system is likely over my budget so a no go. And no, still on the hunt, no decision on the end game yet. At this point I am waiting to see what Dutch & Dutch has up their sleeves before making a final decision.I did recommend those to the guy looking to spend $400K on both his HT and Hi-Fi setup (to include construction costs).
As far as I know, Mr. Widget works for a company that help set clients up with Bluehorns.
The question of course is how close the Bluehorn compares to the Acheron Designer? The difference is a better compression driver and them flying out to do the EQ for you (which is essential too). With the simulations, the Acheron Designer is only a little bit better than the Amie's (admittedly in the midrange) and the issues at the upper frequencies are likely resolved in the Bluehorn's upgraded compression driver compared to the Designer.
That said, Bluehorn at $80K plus costs of Meyer install/tuning? Versus Meyer Amie at <$8K with Dirac, Trinnov, or a PC-based Acourate system if you don't need the SPLs of the Bluehorn? I think it should be surprisingly close.
It's also worth noting that the Bluehorn doesn't show a perfectly flat 20-20 kHz curve... but their focus was "nearly" flat 20-20 kHz response but with really good phase control. They also build everything in-house and still service discontinued products like the HD-1, which solves the repairability issue for you...
Meyer does have a MM4-XPD for directionality. So they do have deployed some of that know-how already but they don't apply it anywhere else in their product line.
I will say, that if you haven't gotten your end game speaker yet (I stopped following that old thread), you should do the Notify when it Stock at a place like Sweetwater. When it's in stock, it should qualify for the 30-day return policy. By the measurements, the Amie and Acheron Designer are nearly the same at lower SPLs which makes the Amie + Amie Sub a formidable option.
It's industrial looking though. That's the main weakness in my opinion.