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$20k for dream 2.0 or 2.1 rig

thewas

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In this video they don't sound at all like they sound in real life.
While that depends on many factors including the reproduction chain that is not important as if they would sound very different also their recordings would sound very different.

Haven't compared them in the same conditions
That's the problem.

But after auditioning a number of Genelecs and owning the KH120 for a while I'm pretty sure I know enough about how they really sound.
If you have listened the KH120 only in your home and the Genelec in show rooms with very different conditions I wouldn't be to sure there.
 

Pearljam5000

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While that depends on many factors including the reproduction chain that is not important as if they would sound very different also their recordings would sound very different.


That's the problem.


If you have listened the KH120 only in your home and the Genelec in show rooms with very different conditions I wouldn't be to sure there.
I'm pretty sure Becaue obviously I know the KH120 sound perfectly well
And after hearing many Genelecs in different places and they sound very similar to each other.
You get to know their sound very well even though the conditions are not Ideal.
In a blind test I'd recognize them in one second .
Genelecs have a kind of unique sound that KH120 doesn't have .
Obviously to some people the differences might sound small but not to me.
 

thewas

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I'm pretty sure Becaue obviously I know the KH120 sound perfectly well
And after hearing many Genelecs in different places and they sound very similar to each other.
You get to know their sound very well even though the conditions are not Ideal.
In a blind test I'd recognize them in one second .
Genelecs have a kind of unique sound that KH120 doesn't have .
Obviously to some people the differences might sound small but not to me.
I think you overestimate the auditory memory and underestimate the influence of different listening conditions where for example the tonal balance is influenced by the bass room response. While sounding different I wouldn't say the differences are huge (I had owned for many years both the KH120 and M040) which is nicely shown in the above recording. If you find some other direct recording comparison which shows big differences please feel free to post it here.
 

RobL

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….If you find some other direct recording comparison which shows big differences please feel free to post it here.
Devil’s advocate, lol, but in this video I think there are clearer differences. The Neumann’s sound a little quieter but you can turn it up a bit when they play. In the second part of the song when the back-up singers enter in their voices sound like there’s a bit of bloom from the Neumann’s that’s not there in the Genelec.

 

Pearljam5000

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I think you overestimate the auditory memory and underestimate the influence of different listening conditions where for example the tonal balance is influenced by the bass room response. While sounding different I wouldn't say the differences are huge (I had owned for many years both the KH120 and M040) which is nicely shown in the above recording. If you find some other direct recording comparison which shows big differences please feel free to post it here.
And I think you overestimate sound demos on on YouTube (no offense to you )
I trust my brain and ears much more than I trust YouTube sound demos .
Most of the time they sound completely different than they do in real life.
A million things can go wrong when recording a speaker , not to mention the "songs" used are very bad for a demo .
I know that Becaue I always look for sound demos of speakers I heard in real life, and most of the time they don't capture the real essence of the sound .
 

thewas

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Devil’s advocate, lol, but in this video I think there are clearer differences. The Neumann’s sound a little quieter but you can turn it up a bit when they play. In the second part of the song when the back-up singers enter in their voices sound like there’s a bit of bloom from the Neumann’s that’s not there in the Genelec.
Like you say different levels and most important different sizes thus different woofer directivity, a matching comparison to the HS5 and 8030 would have been the KH120.

And I think you overestimate sound demos on on YouTube (no offense to you )
I trust my brain and ears much more than I trust YouTube sound demos .
Most of the time they sound completely different than they do in real life.
A million things can go wrong when recording a speaker , not to mention the "songs" used are very bad for a demo .
I know that Becaue I always look for sound demos of speakers I heard in real life, and most of the time they don't capture the real essence of the sound .
Again the mics might change the response but they do it for both, while they cannot make two different signals sound the same (linear transfer function).
Also as said comparison in different rooms and times have so many issues that they cannot be taken seriously. By the way it is not that I have heard them only through youtube but also owned them and have also auditioned them in some studio equipment shops. By the way I don't say they sound identical but more similar (as the direct sound is almost indentically flat) then probably 98% of any pair of 2 different hifi loudspeakers.
 

HarmonicTHD

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Devil’s advocate, lol, but in this video I think there are clearer differences. The Neumann’s sound a little quieter but you can turn it up a bit when they play. In the second part of the song when the back-up singers enter in their voices sound like there’s a bit of bloom from the Neumann’s that’s not there in the Genelec.

Never use YT to compare speakers. You hear more room and recording technique, but speakers. You dont know if it was level matched etc. Plus you never know about the microphone used, it´s calibration, it´s position, movement etc. And lastly, were the speakers configured correctly (Genelec and Neumann have various switches in the back, which one can set accidentally wrong). All in all you can savely discard any YT (at least I havent seen a single one worth watching for speaker sound).
 

RobL

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Never use YT to compare speakers. You hear more room and recording technique, but speakers. You dont know if it was level matched etc. Plus you never know about the microphone used, it´s calibration, it´s position, movement etc. And lastly, were the speakers configured correctly (Genelec and Neumann have various switches in the back, which one can set accidentally wrong). All in all you can savely discard any YT (at least I havent seen a single one worth watching for speaker sound).
Apologies if my response came across as too serious…it was a tounge-in-cheek response to thewas. It is curious that videos that demonstrate differences seem to cause outrage here, lol.
 

HarmonicTHD

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Apologies if my response came across as too serious…it was a tounge-in-cheek response to thewas. It is curious that videos that demonstrate differences seem to cause outrage here, lol.
All good. Internet communication is not easy at times. :)
 
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mad

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Never use YT to compare speakers. You hear more room and recording technique, but speakers. You dont know if it was level matched etc. Plus you never know about the microphone used, it´s calibration, it´s position, movement etc. And lastly, were the speakers configured correctly (Genelec and Neumann have various switches in the back, which one can set accidentally wrong). All in all you can savely discard any YT (at least I havent seen a single one worth watching for speaker sound).
How do you level match doing real world listening tests? I never thought about it until you said that.
 

Purité Audio

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A steady state tone and an SPL meter for loudspeakers, unless there is a more accurate method?
Keith
 
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mad

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A steady state tone and an SPL meter for loudspeakers, unless there is a more accurate method?
Keith
I should have been more clear. Do people actually level match? I’ve done many tests and never once did I level match. Food for thought.
 

voodooless

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I should have been more clear. Do people actually level match? I’ve done many tests and never once did I level match. Food for thought.
You must do level matching. Our ears are not linear with volume. Therefore any difference between speakers will be much larger when not matched. Also, we tend to pick the loudest speaker as the best sounding one.

 

Purité Audio

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It makes a huge difference, the other day for example a customer clearly preferred speaker ‘a’ until I turned up speaker ‘b’ to the same level then it became much tougher .
Keith
 

HarmonicTHD

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How do you level match doing real world listening tests? I never thought about it until you said that.
Yes level matching is absolutely essential.

For comparing speakers, you first run for example some pink noise and record always at the exact same distance the SPL with a measurement mic. You need to be as precise as possible as even small loudness differences (ca. 0.1 to 0.5dB SPL) might be audible and therefore influence the test (see Fletcher-Munson, louder is always perceived as better - old showroom trick).

For amps or DACs it is easier as you can use a multi-meter to compare the output voltages.
 
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mad

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It makes a huge difference, the other day for example a customer clearly preferred speaker ‘a’ until I turned up speaker ‘b’ to the same level then it became much tougher .
Keith
Most dealers do not do this. Never has one level matched for my listening.
 

HarmonicTHD

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Most dealers do not do this. Never has one level matched for my listening.
Of course they don’t. They do the opposite and turn up the equipment which earns them the most profit. I don’t visit dealers anymore at least not for advice / listening tests.
 
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