miniDSP 2.1 solution finder

[dom_st]

I got the wiim, connected through toslink wiim --> yamaha AV --> speakers. works great so far. Super easy to use. No issues so far. Sound is not worse than before, so all good. A streamer is what I wanted and a streamer I got. I could live without the alexa stuff though! didn't activate it during setup, but having these microphones everywhere ... listening to your commands and probably everything else, just not a fan of it.

The umik and dsp are still on their way. Will keep you guys updated, but I guess that might be sometime next week.

 

[dom_st]

ok as with all measuring equipment, if you´re not really familiar with what you are doing. you will create some messy measurements.
Just playing around right now, with the UMIK and the REW software. I tried to calibrate the on board soundcard, i don´t know how but i made it work.
But i think i am better off without the manually created soundcard calibration file, as below in the chart, the blue line is with calibration file, the other is without.
I lean the speakers as close to the wall as possible in this measurement.

waterfall not perfect but could be worse i guess.

and from here it´s trial and error i guess

 

[dom_st]

now will apply the EQ filters into the Wiim and see what it does.

It did correct the bass pretty nicely, as you can see with the purple line.
The nasty low at 137Hz is probably room related, where i should be working with bass traps (which i don´t have and don´t plan to be using).

and now let´s listen to some music

 

[dom_st]

Ok I have not yet made up my mind related to the amp I wanted to get.

But I had some time to play around.
It´s really interesting to see (measure) how positioning of the speakers changes the frequency response measured by the mic.


For my right speaker the area between 60 and 200Hz is a tricky one, also i have a peak at around 1k that i need to get rid off.
The closer the speaker stands to the wall (thick line), the "better" bass i have (more dB).
The further away (all the way to 70cm from wall), the more problems with the bass i get. but i get a slightly better curve in the mids and the highs roll off a bit later. On the other hand i need to correct the peak at 1kHz.

Maybe the 1/12 smoothing is still a bit too noisy.
And on a scale from 1 (worst) to 10 (best) how bad would you guys rate the room response to my right speaker

I just seem to have a issue with my sub, as it is way too loud directly connected to the miniDSP flex output.
I have no gain setting at the sub, just a volume knob, that i luckily reduced to the max before trying it out.

Currently i am using such a TS 6.5mm to RCA connector (on the TRS output), where i have a RCA to SUB cable connected. Is this maybe the issue?

Edit. Just read this within the miniDSP FAQ section.

OPTION1: Get a TRS to RCA cable as per miniDSP app note. https://support.minidsp.com/support...ectivity-which-trs-to-rca-cable-should-i-use-

OPTION2: Just don't get BOTH RCA to the subwoofer. Just connect one side (E.g. Left). That will be fine since L&R are already mixed inside the Flex DSP matrix mixer.

-I will try to get a TRS adapter instead of the TS and try to connect a single end instead of both.

 

[dom_st]

today i measured left and right speaker with the harman target curve and a 80Hz cut off.
i think the left and right (blue and green line) individually measured speakers look quite good from 200+Hz.
the red line is left and right measured together., looks "louder" but worse.
how would you continue from here ti improve the red line to follow the target line?

 

[D!sco]

today i measured left and right speaker with the harman target curve and a 80Hz cut off.
i think the left and right (blue and green line) individually measured speakers look quite good from 200+Hz.
the red line is left and right measured together., looks "louder" but worse.
how would you continue from here ti improve the red line to follow the target line?

View attachment 344384

Orientation is the key. Sometimes your wider dispersion patterns may intersect before they reach listening position. Or it could be errant reflections from boxes, room modes, etc. Wider, closer, further from walls, different tilts. All of it will affect the way these drivers sum at your ear.

 

[Salt]

Something completely different:
if there are new speakers in plan for the future, have a look at KEF LS60: it's got Wifi/LAN, DSP, streaming, HDMI and sub-output ... no need for pre, amp, whatever.

 

[dom_st]

Orientation is the key. Sometimes your wider dispersion patterns may intersect before they reach listening position. Or it could be errant reflections from boxes, room modes, etc. Wider, closer, further from walls, different tilts. All of it will affect the way these drivers sum at your ear.

this is what i am trying to achieve. I went from wall to front in like 10cm sections 0-70cm from the wall, measured each speaker individually and found out that 43-46cm seems to be ok for both speakers. I have now also slightly turned them towards my listening position, but yeah need to try some more and maybe try to place them wider as well, but i don´t have too much space to play with that, at least on my right speaker side as i have only 60cm space left before i hit the wall and don´t want to press it against the wall.
But i will give it a try and see what happens.
Subwoofer implementation is next, tomorrow i should get the proper cable adapter.

 

[dom_st]

Something completely different:
if there are new speakers in plan for the future, have a look at KEF LS60: it's got Wifi/LAN, DSP, streaming, HDMI and sub-output ... no need for pre, amp, whatever.

thank you for your input, will definitely check them out if i get the chance. i did consider an all in one package as the price as streamer, dsp, amp, cables (even though not super expensive) etc. it does sum up and easily at 2k only for that. but if i got it right, KEF also has a passive range with the LS50 Meta unfortunately no LS60 Meta?
Honestly I really wasn´t in the market for new speakers, but kinda fell in love with the spatial mc no.1 open baffle design now i guess i´ll check them out sometime, just out of curiosity. even though they might not be suitable for my room or the best speaker decision. But definitely interesting.

 

[D!sco]

Not all room issues are solvable. I think this leads to the speaker trials insanity I see in some of my friends. Sometimes you get lucky and the flaws cancel each other out.

 

[dom_st]

Ok, i have the setup complete now, just plugged everything together and started to play some tunes.

Wiim Pro Plus (optical out) --> (optical in) miniDSP flex balanced (TSR out) --> (XLR in) Apollon Hypex NCx500 ST (banana plugs out)--> (banana plugs in) to speakers

I think the amplifiers 20.5 gain setting, is the correct setting for the miniDSP´s 4V out.

Volume control is through the miniDSP.

There is also a volume limit setting within the Wiim Pro app, where you can set the max allowed volume in the range from 0-100%, seems to be working well (so far).

First impressions without any level matching ... something is clearly different, just not sure if i like it yet.
Or i messed up the speaker polarity or something by unplugging, reconnecting the complete setup (i doub´t it)

Tomorrow or the next few days, I might find some time to do some measuring and positioning of the speakers.

 

[Salt]

Isn't Mini-DSP SE and not balanced and so on 2V in-and-output?

 

[dom_st]

Isn't Mini-DSP SE and not balanced and so on 2V in-and-output?

the balanced version, which i have, seems to be different as per the miniDSP homepage.

EDIT: it does say max level though.
The Wiim does only put out 2V.

 

[Salt]

So if it is in Your's specification everything's ok.
Did not know there is a balanced version today

 

[D!sco]

Have you tried playing with REW's AutoEQ settings?

REW AutoEQ

miniDSP is a leading manufacturer of Digital Audio Signal Processors for the HomeTheater, Hifi, headphone and Automotive market. Join our large community of Audiophiles, Engineers and DIYers using our innovative products.

www.minidsp.com

 

[dom_st]

Have you tried playing with REW's AutoEQ settings?

REW AutoEQ

miniDSP is a leading manufacturer of Digital Audio Signal Processors for the HomeTheater, Hifi, headphone and Automotive market. Join our large community of Audiophiles, Engineers and DIYers using our innovative products.

www.minidsp.com

This is how I usually do it, but thanks for the link. I found some settings there, that are set up slightly different than what I saw on YouTube. Will try that out. Hopefully later the day.

Again first listening impressions were really strange, i mean musically everything was there and everything seemed a bit more present, more bass probably. But strings and voices seemed a bit less "natural" than what I was used to from the yamaha. I also let my wife listen to it, to hear her initial impressions and she also thought "she thinks she prefers the old setup more, especially the voices."
Will come back with a feedback after I finetune everything. And check cable and connectors again. As the xlr cables are new in the path, maybe something is wrong with them

And then I will reconnect my yamaha again to "see" if there really is a difference or if its only on my head.

 

[D!sco]

Which speakers are you using currently? The only two weak links I could think of are the miniDSP or the WiiM, somehow.

 

[dom_st]

Unfortunately did not have too much time today.
But i have a plan what i want to do next.

Directly connect the Wiim to the new amp through the Wiim´s Line Out or maybe better through Coax Out on the Wiim.
This would exclude the TRS to XLR cables or the miniDSP being the problem.
I bought these cables to connect the miniDSP flex to the amp, i guess these should be ok, one for each channel.

pro snake 17552-1,0

Patch cables balanced XLR male to stereo jack, Length: 100 cm, Neutrik connectors, Colour: Black, Made in Germany

www.thomann.de

I did connect the Wiim through Line Out, to Line In on the Yamaha, plugged the speakers in and everything sounded just as i remebered it.
It´s not like day and night, i probably expected a clear improvement.
But my old setup it´s a bit smoother, somehow more fluid, difficult to explain.

My speakers are probably not well known around here, they are from a german manufacturer.
You can find some information about them here - i really like their timeless design.

Nubert NuLine 122 | hifi-wiki.com

hifi-wiki.com

The sub is connected through TS to RCA cable, as TRS to RCA doesn´t seem to work, but i really need to reduce the volume to max 20-25% on the sub.
Maybe could reduce gain through the flex.

I hope to be able to provide some measurements these days.

 

[dom_st]

Or i will connect the new amp to the pre out of the yamaha to see if there is a difference, a lot of variables and parameters to test here :-D

 

[D!sco]

My guess is those dips in the overall FR correspond to directivity errors at the crossovers. It's pretty typical of any speaker. Seeing that it's a three-way pushes my bias a bit. They look nice. It's easy to forget there's a whole world of hifi in Europe I know nothing about.

I don't really know why you would be having issues with either device output. Trying the pre-out to the amp would be a good way to single out the minidsp as the problem. You could show me what you've done on the DSP and I could try to help you sort out what may be the issue. I seriously doubt it's the amp's fault. DSP can sound very funky at first. Usually the issue is total SPL, or trying to correct dispersion and room modes. The change is monumental and the options are endless. It can be a little much at times.