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$20k for dream 2.0 or 2.1 rig
- Thread starter mad
- Start date
Where I work, we do level matching for speaker comparisons for customers. We also will change the speaker positions and recalibrate as speaker position can affect sound. You can never control every variable. You can debate which type of pink noise you should use, full range or band limited (typically from 500-2khz which is common for setting speaker levels in processors). Full range can definitely skew results if there are differences in speaker capability, like one which goes lower in bass for example. If you are going to be using a sub you can limit your comparisons and cut out the bass frequencies.
I do think most dealers don't level match, but they should. They should have those volume numbers preset if they have a showroom. Some I think is just ignorance and most customers are not as well informed as members here. Many times when customers do comparisons they just grab the remote and vary the volume themselves. Where I work we don't have a showroom and we let customers take the speakers home an offer to set them up for comparison. That is often denied and I know a lot of customers aren't level matching at home.
Members here should realize they are much more informed then most dealers. I would predict that the majority of customers that dealers see have nowhere near the level of knowledge as members here. So they are not used to dealing with this type of customer. If you're going to do comparisons at a dealer bring test tones and an SPL meter (phone ones are fine). I hope most dealers at least let you set levels yourself.
I do think most dealers don't level match, but they should. They should have those volume numbers preset if they have a showroom. Some I think is just ignorance and most customers are not as well informed as members here. Many times when customers do comparisons they just grab the remote and vary the volume themselves. Where I work we don't have a showroom and we let customers take the speakers home an offer to set them up for comparison. That is often denied and I know a lot of customers aren't level matching at home.
Members here should realize they are much more informed then most dealers. I would predict that the majority of customers that dealers see have nowhere near the level of knowledge as members here. So they are not used to dealing with this type of customer. If you're going to do comparisons at a dealer bring test tones and an SPL meter (phone ones are fine). I hope most dealers at least let you set levels yourself.
- Thread Starter
- #83
Short list so far:
A member messaged me about Soundfield and I cannot find information on them other than some very. Does anyone have experience with this brand? Many of the models on the website say available in 2019.
- Siberg Manta
- KH420
- Dutch & Dutch 8C Studio
- PMC 8-2
- Genelec 8361
- ELX Tower
- KEF LS60
A member messaged me about Soundfield and I cannot find information on them other than some very. Does anyone have experience with this brand? Many of the models on the website say available in 2019.
HarmonicTHD
Major Contributor
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- Thread Starter
- #86
What do you mean? @MKR asked me to contact the owner, but I am seeing neither data nor any real-world experience with Soundfirled. Maybe Audio Science Review is a MLM website because I have had several people message me trying to argue or sell me on a direction I should go. @Adi777 is supposed to have pair.
EQ seems to be paramount to in-room treatment which I always thought was at least part of the equation.
I ain’t touching that with a 50ft pole
- Thread Starter
- #89
According to @MKR there is no Klippel data available for Soundfield. Klippel is a requirement for any contender as it provides the best data and science to back up manufacturer claims. All serious speaker companies would be wise to have this tool on hand. Science is the future of audio.
To be fair there aren’t too many Klippel NFS’s kicking around but yes the manufacturer can still produce CEA-2034 compliant measurements.
Keith
Keith
Okay, I can actually speak on some of these!
I have used the 8-2, 8C, 8361, and just bought KH420s.
None of these need subs to be full-range. They all, save for the 8361, have F3s free field well into the 20s of hz. The 8361 is in the low 30s somewhere.
The 8Cs are the most SPL limited of them (the cardioid loading makes the midrange work harder in the low mids to upper bass), but they still get plenty loud. Very punchy.
The 8-2s are going to be the most room sensitive, by a long shot; they do have pretty sizeable DSP EQ on board however. They're quite big, too. They get absolutely terrifyingly loud without strain. They do the usual PMC "way too bright" thing. Also consider the 6-2, it's much more manageable sizewise.
The 8361s have GLM, but to me are the least good of the bunch. They are harsh in the presence region to me. They're also absolutely massive in a way I can't really describe.
The KH420s have a rather tight bottom end considering the ported design and don't seem to have lost that punchiness that the smaller ones have - Neumann chose a very low port tuning so this helps. For an analog active, they have a lot of onboard controls.
Keep in mind all of these speakers weigh a lot and will need very beefy stands - I bought Sound Anchor ADJ2s as I'm in a studio environment; they aren't particularly pretty.
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Coming back to your original post … In my journey I started out with the mantra of go passive or go home. While I believe you can achieve outstanding results with a superb passive design (Salon 2!), in the end I ended up coming to the conclusion that active is the best way to achieve state of the art performance. I will say I do still have some passive designs on my short list, but in the end I expect the final choice will be active. We shall see.
I am also a big believer in large full range floorstanders with large drivers. From what I have heard past year or so in my quest, it is the only the large floorstanders that give me the dynamics and scale I am looking for. Definitely no monitors in my future. With this said, your listening space is quite small and something like the 8C would be more than capable to fill that space. However, with a cardioid design floorstander and a bit of room EQ, you could get the benefits of a large driver system even in a small space. To say, I do not subscribe to the fairly common thought that you can’t use large speakers in a smaller space, but careful setup is certainly more warranted in that case.
On the topic of full range mains … do you want to use subwoofers, or you rather avoid if possible?
And for what it’s worth, my latest short list below (yes, there are some passives and yes, some that are not supported with measurements, which I hope I will be able to obtain from manufacturer at some point … they are on the list first and foremost because I have spent extensive time listening to them and they offered outstanding SUBJECTIVE performance for my ears).
D&D (not the 8C, rather the upcoming larger design)
Clarysis (passive dipole planar)
Diptyque (passive dipole planar)
Legacy V System and Aeris (mixed passive/active)
Soundfield custom (active)
GT Audioworks (passive dipole planar, though the subwoofer towers are active, haven’t actually heard this one yet, look very intriguing)
I should note that Legacy now has a fully active tower speaker (Focus XD) that was positively reviewed on Soundstage, though this is primarily a subjective review, but there are at least some measurements (better than nothing, but far from what we like to see here in ASR). This tower is too small for me, but I wonder if Legacy will start designing more of their offerings as fully active (many already are mixed … low freq active, remainder passive). They also have a fully active monitor you may consider, the Calibre. But I have not heard it nor do I know if any measurements.
Legacy Focus review … https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews...ocus-xd-floor-standing-speaker-review-part-i/
By the way, have you considered the JBL 4329p ? I have not heard it, but looks to be a very good design … https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/jbl_4329p/
- Thread Starter
- #95
Audio Science Review has shown me the value of transparency. Data doesn't lie and the newer measurement methodology cannot be skewed by the room. That said I did message Soundfield @MKR's encouragement. Their response is below. Admittedly I do not know all of what is being said, but it was better to have some data.
The measurement looks decent. What is more surprising is the use of mega power cables and risers in the test space. I like the burl veneer a lot.
The measurement looks decent. What is more surprising is the use of mega power cables and risers in the test space. I like the burl veneer a lot.
@mad if you don’t level match, at least pick up an SPL meter for your smartphone and when you compare two speakers, set it to your preferred volume and then make note of the volume you are listening at. That will help you keep track of whether the speaker or the volume is what you like.
All things equal, you probably want to pick the speaker that you enjoy the most at lower volumes to protect your hearing.
All things equal, you probably want to pick the speaker that you enjoy the most at lower volumes to protect your hearing.
- Thread Starter
- #98
I have always liked JBL but not their looks. Legacy looks nice but might be a touch on the bigger side of things. Passives are off my list.
Grimm is added to the short list. Subwoofers are okay if they can be integrated into the whole set up physically like the Kii or Hedd.
- Thread Starter
- #99
Any levels above 75 is too much for extended listening.
You could just build a pair of M2s as @MAB did
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JBL M2 Clone
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