Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review

[PJ 1]

LOL. Well, hopefully it's downtown and you can use the skyways. (I'm trying to convince my girlfriend who's from Colombia and lived in West Palm that you don't have to go outside in the winter in the Twin Cities... It's not working.) Good for them! Yes, inconvenient but don't take on debt unnecessarily.

It is an interesting conversation in the post production and mastering camps. But like most artists and producers/engineers, I think money is better spent on microphones, instruments, and mixing vice latest/greatest D/A to A/D conversion. (Oh yeah, hire people that can actually PLAY also..) But we're losing. Now people would rather have a sample of a 1970s Gretsch kick drum or Baldwin Grand Piano than an actual great recording of them. I am NOT a professional, first call drummer. I know a few and they tell me they've been hired to replace a bands drummer on the record and then they would use Beat Detective to "fix" their tracks. It removes their feel and life. They could have just used the crapy band drummer and done that. "Progress"...

 

[dsd4life]

LOL. Well, hopefully it's downtown and you can use the skyways. (I'm trying to convince my girlfriend who's from Colombia and lived in West Palm that you don't have to go outside in the winter in the Twin Cities... It's not working.) Good for them! Yes, inconvenient but don't take on debt unnecessarily.

It is an interesting conversation in the post production and mastering camps. But like most artists and producers/engineers, I think money is better spent on microphones, instruments, and mixing vice latest/greatest D/A to A/D conversion. (Oh yeah, hire people that can actually PLAY also..) But we're losing. Now people would rather have a sample of a 1970s Gretsch kick drum or Baldwin Grand Piano than an actual great recording of them. I am NOT a professional, first call drummer. I know a few and they tell me they've been hired to replace a bands drummer on the record and then they would use Beat Detective to "fix" their tracks. It removes their feel and life. They could have just used the crapy band drummer and done that. "Progress"...

SSDs are cheap and reliable. There is no reason not to capture and mix in 24 bit / 192 kHz. Unless you are Paul from PS Audio and record the most boring 2 channel in DSD.

Apple Spatial is not pegged to Dolby Atmos. Bandwidth and space is not a factor anymore. LPCM 7.1 is mandatory now.

 

[SoundVideo]

I'm very interested in hearing about those Kefs with the AV/Amp 10s. I am looking at the Ref 3 Metas for a good 2ch. But the allure of a 5.2.2 "theater" is always present and I couldn't swing the Ref series for all those channels. But the Kef R series Metas get great reviews from users and magazines.

Re: the AMP/AV10. Allow me to back up .... Forgetting how bad or how good the Arcam prepro measured, I had NO problem with how it sounded. Better yet whatever the SINAD measurements were, I loved the SQ. Yeah, out of the gate, it was a buggy mess. And there are reasons for it that which has nothing to do with engineering. Rather, IMO, marketing pushed it out the door before engineering was even close to finishing it. And unless the brand has a BIG engineering team like Yamaha, and D&M, and Onkyo, expect a new prepro piece to be buggy! 100% of the time and I will bet my 1st born.

I was hesitant to use the AM10 because it had one power cord. 200 watts x 16== 3200 watts/120V == about 27 amps with a 15-amp power cord. Yeah, music and movies have a duty cycle. And if I ever blow a fuse, I've already blown my speakers. Still, that was my reservation. In the end, it sounds outstanding. The price for 16 channels with that power @ $7K less street price is fairly priced. So that decision was easy only because it was easy for me to try it out.

Re: the AV10. Again, the GUI is wonderful. And the reliability (minus some cold solder joints on early units) is bulletproof! Early on, I had to try every new widget. Now, swapping things out is a PITA and work. So, I like the idea of a stable platform for a solid 5 years (which matches the warranty). Also, when new CODAC's come to the market, I know the flagship is going to be the 1st to get it. AND, the manufacturer has enough $$'s of profit to support it. Some people get upset when their one-generation-old unit doesn't get a new format. That's reality. Price, quality, service. Pick two of the three. You get quality and service from Marantz with the AV10. Service (support of formats, warranty, etc) costs $$.

I've changed so many things since I pulled my Arcam and installed my AV10 that I have NO idea what those better measurements meant to my ears. And now, I lack the motivation to study it. But what I do know is that with my specific situation (being far from the speakers), Those KEF's which prefer not to be toed in sound MUCH better than the 328Be I had. Notice I didn't say the "R11's are better than the 328Be". I said they are with my situation. And it has everything to do with KEF's dispersion pattern. Now, if I dragged a chair closer and around 12 foot away, in stereo large, the 328Be's have more bottom end. Guess which one I am going to like better?

The R11's/AMP10/AV10 (with all of my room shortcomings), sound amazing! I've heard multi-thousands of systems over the years at shows, customers, and suppliers. The top 10 stereo systems were mesmerizing! And they did NOT correlate to big $$ systems: one blow-away system used a pair of Revel F16, another a Dali Opticon with an Arcam receiver, another was in Peter Lyngdorf's home using a pair of DALI Rubicon's for $2K with "boundary woofers". Hint: all three rooms had impeccable measurements. Anyways, I'm getting a B++ caliber sound before room correction. I suspect I get it to an A- sound when I'm done. As to how much is because of the preamp and amp, not as much as many would like to think. I got the amp and processor for size, reliability, GUI, (yes) looks, channel count, ease of use, HEOS multiroom set-up, and future support. And I picked the right company.

I kind of like the idea of saving even more and getting that A1H (not needing the AMP10, plus a deal, plus a smaller size), but I am not as motivated to try it out as I used to be. And keeping it real, without trying them both side-by-side, there is part of me that wants to believe the big-ball separates are better. Hey, they measure better. And I'm willing to admit I can be shallow and want the big-boys. Just because.

In summary, if better measurements correlate to better sound quality, then if you DON'T like the sound of the AMP10/AV10/KEF R series, your room and/or speaker location, are off. Set up properly and in even a decent room will produce exceptional results.

 

[Vacceo]

Sorry, these were the T Series on-walls not the in-walls. I liked my GoldenEar SuperSat 60s better. Lol.

Those speakers have not aged well. I guess physics can be pushed, but not that far...

As far as the AMP10 heat is concerned, I don't notice anything to the touch as it runs cool. Re: channels. I have a 7.2.4 system. All KEF Meta R series. The inwalls are (more-or-less) the R11 Meta, wrapped in aluminum. And the inceiling speaker are their recently released 10" Reference Meta versions (which MY ruler measures an 8" driver; not 10"). I also run zone 2 and zone 3 off of the AMP10 using the HEOS feature for those zones (master bath and outdoor deck). Those are not on when I drive the system. I didn't measure the SPL, but you can ask my neighbor 50 yards away with the windows shut. It was well above reference levels.

I was debating between putting in the Denon A1H because I recently got a pallet at a yearend deal. I'm not going to mess with comparing the two for now. I'm extremely delighted with the total system sound. I am still going to try and biamp those from R11's to see if I hear any differences. As I mentioned in another post, my ears have come up absent in hearing a sonic advantage with biamping with powerful separates. YMMV.

My only critique on these R11's Meta's has nothing to do with SQ, rather. Analogous to people critical about the remote quality, my beef is with the back binding post assembly. I wish they would have spent another $2 on each pair of binding posts. Plus, thicken up the black plastic assembly. Go ahead and blow another $3 per speaker on that. Then, charge me for it. It looks a little flimsy. I know, it doesn't change the SQ. But if I am buying testosterone. Give me the full dose!

With your user case, it seems that the AV10 is in full use, which is great: features exist to be put to work. Is it possible to apply Dirac/Audyssey on zones 2 and 3 or does correction only apply to main zone?

On the side of heat, that is great news, and seems like a well done implementation of IcePower class D modules.

Features and performance wise, I see no real competition with Marantz in the current AVP market. With ART running, that can even punch up to Storm Audio...

SSDs are cheap and reliable. There is no reason not to capture and mix in 24 bit / 192 kHz. Unless you are Paul from PS Audio and record the most boring 2 channel in DSD.

Apple Spatial is not pegged to Dolby Atmos. Bandwidth and space is not a factor anymore. LPCM 7.1 is mandatory now.

It may or may not work in the near future, but IA perhaps can do a good job upscaling stereo records.

 

[Sal1950]

My passion is for MY system. Therefore, I visit the factories and talk with the engineers etc. Specifically, to get info for my systems. And I'm sharing what I learned. If that doesn't fit with the site's model, I'd be happy to leave.

Oh not at all, your more than welcome here. But talking about buying AV's by the pallet definitely shows you a dealer and in a fairly decent sized manner. I think it's only fair in the interest of transparency you revealed yourself. If you don't care to do any online sales that's fine but on the other hand you could be just blowin smoke up our shorts with big talk? 2+2 isn't adding up to 4 here so I'm curious as to who you really are.
Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Sal1950]

I

Oh not at all, your more than welcome here. But talking about buying AV's by the pallet definitely shows you a dealer and in a fairly decent sized manner. I think it's only fair in the interest of transparency you revealed yourself. If you don't care to do any online sales that's fine but on the other hand you could be just blowin smoke up our shorts with big talk? 2+2 isn't adding up to 4 here so I'm curious as to who you really are.
Inquiring minds want to know.

I did receive a PM from Steve earlier in which he provided me a link to his online business, etc; showing him
to be a actual online AV HiFi retailer based in US MN. I responded with a thanks but still expressed a personal desire he reveal that to the greater membership. I won't disclose his credentials, I'll leave that decision up to him though admit to still being a bit confused.
Cheers All,
Sal

 

[Vacceo]

Well, not even reveal. If the point is transparency, he can just contact the admins and get the tag as an industry insider. If he does not want to advertise at all, that is absolutely fine. So far his opinions are his, which is what I personally value from a user.

I also like to ask questions about usability, which is something important beyond raw performance.

 

[RichB]

I

I did receive a PM from Steve earlier in which he provided me a link to his online business, etc; showing him
to be a actual online AV HiFi retailer based in US MN. I responded with a thanks but still expressed a personal desire he reveal that to the greater membership. I won't disclose his credentials, I'll leave that decision up to him though admit to still being a bit confused.
Cheers All,
Sal

I bought 4 Salon2s and Voice2 from Steve and are really happy with the pricing and service.
I'm glad he is still around, in the event I consider the AV10, though I expect to move forward with Emotiva because the sound quality and features are a great match.

- Rich

 

[SoundVideo]

I

I did receive a PM from Steve earlier in which he provided me a link to his online business, etc; showing him
to be a actual online AV HiFi retailer based in US MN. I responded with a thanks but still expressed a personal desire he reveal that to the greater membership. I won't disclose his credentials, I'll leave that decision up to him though admit to still being a bit confused.
Cheers All,
Sal

Sal. I already clarified what a "big" dealer happens to be on spendy items in an earlier post. A pallet is a total of 12 Denon A1H receivers. That's nothing to D&M! But it is something for that very specific A1H skew. I tried clarifying that in an earlier post.

I went to Japan because I wanted to know more about MY system. And, I can write off a trip. Same with Krell, Simaudio, DALI (twice), Munich HiFi, Velodyne, Harman (3X), and others. I'm technical and I sell enough of their products, so they spend time with me. CES, CEDIA Munich HiFi, Montreal HiFi, AXPONA, etc. It's what drove me to go out to KEF in NJ. I went to Harman to have some DALI's measured (spinorama). I drank the Kool-Aid and not so mysteriously, I'm selling more of it to my existing customers. When I said I talked with Sean Olive. He isn't my buddy. It was his job to present and I talked with him during the break. Cut, paste, repeat. I mention any specific event during a post only for people to understand the context. i.e. credibility. I hate people wasting money (especially me). So, I liked to pontificate accordingly.

Re: transparency. Perception becomes reality. And when I posted a lot on AVS (I rarely do now as I am working less and less), they didn't want me to be "transparent" with my website on the footnote. So, they pulled it off. That's a key reason why I didn't mention who I am. I'm trying to avoid that perception. Plus, if I post who I am, what I type has to go through a filter. After this note, hopefully, you won't be "still a bit confused."

 

[SoundVideo]

I bought 4 Salon2s and Voice2 from Steve and are really happy with the pricing and service.
I'm glad he is still around, in the event I consider the AV10, though I expect to move forward with Emotiva because the sound quality and features are a great match.

- Rich

My username is SoundVideo, I am from MN, Sal said my name is Steve and I am a dealer. You figured it out. God willing, I'll be around for at least another 10 years doing what I do. You and I have had endless conversations on the topic that we love (theater and music)! You can confirm I'm not blowing smoke up anyone's behind.

 

[Ken1951]

My username is SoundVideo, I am from MN, Sal said my name is Steve and I am a dealer. You figured it out. God willing, I'll be around for at least another 10 years doing what I do. You and I have had endless conversations on the topic that I love! You can confirm I'm not blowing smoke up anyone's behind.

Your experiences are valuable here. You're not trying to sell anyone anything, so you're good by me. Had some very close friends in the past who hailed from MN. One's family was from outside Minneapolis, the other way up in Thief River. A beautiful state, if a trifle cold for me!

 

[Vacceo]

Sal. I already clarified what a "big" dealer happens to be on spendy items in an earlier post. A pallet is a total of 12 Denon A1H receivers. That's nothing to D&M! But it is something for that very specific A1H skew. I tried clarifying that in an earlier post.

I went to Japan because I wanted to know more about MY system. And, I can write off a trip. Same with Krell, Simaudio, DALI (twice), Munich HiFi, Velodyne, Harman (3X), and others. I'm technical and I sell enough of their products, so they spend time with me. CES, CEDIA Munich HiFi, Montreal HiFi, AXPONA, etc. It's what drove me to go out to KEF in NJ. I went to Harman to have some DALI's measured (spinorama). I drank the Kool-Aid and not so mysteriously, I'm selling more of it to my existing customers. When I said I talked with Sean Olive. He isn't my buddy. It was his job to present and I talked with him during the break. Cut, paste, repeat. I mention any specific event during a post only for people to understand the context. i.e. credibility. I hate people wasting money (especially me). So, I liked to pontificate accordingly.

Re: transparency. Perception becomes reality. And when I posted a lot on AVS (I rarely do now as I am working less and less), they didn't want me to be "transparent" with my website on the footnote. So, they pulled it off. That's a key reason why I didn't mention who I am. I'm trying to avoid that perception. Plus, if I post who I am, what I type has to go through a filter. After this note, hopefully, you won't be "still a bit confused."

Completely off topic considering the thread but here it goes: KEF or Perlisten.

I´m sure both would work just great with the AV10+AMP10 combo on your space.

 

[GXAlan]

Sal. I already clarified what a "big" dealer happens to be on spendy items in an earlier post. A pallet is a total of 12 Denon A1H receivers.

What are the chances that you can send Amir an A1H for measurement?

To comment on the Arcam AV40 and Marantz gear and Denon.

1) Arcam has suggested that if you feed it a -1 dBFS digital signal instead of 0 dBFS and shoot for 3.83V instead of 4V, the SINAD bumps up into the 100 range. It may be a bug with their HDMI implementation but since Arcam’s amps are 31 dB of gain and most of us aren’t pushing 3 or 4V out of the preamp anyways, and most content isn’t encoded at 0 dBFS, it’s very likely that in the real world , it works really well. That said, to echo your difference about the Marantz, my AV40 arrived DOA from BestBuy and it had the DSP missing bug. When Arcam had all of their service bulletins online, you could see the huge amount of issues with the current generation of the gear. But maybe that’s why it sounded so good in your own setup.

2) Even with fully balanced XLR connections, you can still get ground loops. This is one reason why ATI amps have grounding points. I have seen this personally with my Yamaha Cx-A5100 and Meyer Sound Amie where I need to wire the Yamaha’s phono grounding point to the ground lug of my line conditioner.

Along those same lines, that is why I bought the Marantz PM-10 in the past. A good integrated amp avoids undesired interactions between the pre amp and amp. Ground loops may result in minimal hits to SINAD but when I measured the PM-10, grounding was essential to get the highest SINAD.

3) Putting it together. I am willing to bet that the A1H measures better than the AV10/AMP10 when you are looking at 5W SINAD from the combo to avoid any unintended issues between the two.

What I don’t know is
A) We are used to processors and receivers going out of date. So buying a receiver feels risky.

But with eARC, maybe those days are over. Unless you run out of speaker channels, you don’t need to upgrade.

B) We are used to receivers breaking over time from heat. Either the wifi or the hdmi board. Putting all of those channels in one box seems risky…. But Denon and Marantz do a lot of reliability testing for their flagships and they publish service manuals for everything.

C) The A1H is pretty heavy and big which can be a turn off for many.

 

[SoundVideo]

Completely off topic considering the thread but here it goes: KEF or Perlisten.

Hands down, Perlisten Subs wins. but they are rather proud of them. I'm contemplating adding Perlisten as a line and shedding a couple of others. What's not to love about their pedigree? Ask me that question in about a month. I wonder if Harman has any Spinorama data on their line-up? That might point to the correct answer.

 

[Sal1950]

Sal. I already clarified what a "big" dealer happens to be on spendy items in an earlier post. A pallet is a total of 12 Denon A1H receivers. That's nothing to D&M! But it is something for that very specific A1H skew. I tried clarifying that in an earlier post. I sell enough of their products, so they spend time with me.

That's not exactly a one or two a month volume like soo many of the "out of their home" dealers around today either.
No your not Crutchfield, only a handful in the industry are but I'd risk a bet you do a bigger dollar value business than a good number of our registered dealers

This isn't AVS Steve.
After yet another post like this

I went to Japan because I wanted to know more about MY system. And, I can write off a trip. Same with Krell, Simaudio, DALI (twice), Munich HiFi, Velodyne, Harman (3X), and others. I'm technical and I sell enough of their products, so they spend time with me.

why we have to pry your ID out of you with a crowbar still confuses me.
You do what you feel is right, I'm done.

 

[muslhead]

That's not exactly a one or two a month volume like soo many of the "out of their home" dealers around today either.
No your not Crutchfield, only a handful in the industry are but I'd risk a bet you do a bigger dollar value business than a good number of our registered dealers

This isn't AVS Steve.
After yet another post like this

why we have to pry your ID out of you with a crowbar still confuses me.
You do what you feel is right, I'm done.

Give it a rest

 

[AdamG]

My username is SoundVideo, I am from MN, Sal said my name is Steve and I am a dealer. You figured it out. God willing, I'll be around for at least another 10 years doing what I do. You and I have had endless conversations on the topic that we love (theater and music)! You can confirm I'm not blowing smoke up anyone's behind.

Take no offense here, but if you reveal yourself any further or continue to talk like a Distributor/Dealer/Vendor we are going to have to Tag your account and send you links to all the Special Rules that will from then on apply to your posts and conduct. Remain incognito or declare your identity as an Audio Company Representative. You can not play both sides of the game here.

 

[Vacceo]

Hands down, Perlisten Subs wins. but they are rather proud of them. I'm contemplating adding Perlisten as a line and shedding a couple of others. What's not to love about their pedigree? Ask me that question in about a month. I wonder if Harman has any Spinorama data on their line-up? That might point to the correct answer.

If I do not remember asking you about them, go ahead and tell us directly about their speakers. On the spinorama (Erin measured the bookshelves), they do not look that far from the KEF, but it´s always nice to read a second opinion from someone who has tried both. Beyond that, FOMO, who´s a fellow memeber of this forum, also uses Perlisten.

 

[SoundVideo]

Take no offense here, but if you reveal yourself any further or continue to talk like a Distributor/Dealer/Vendor we are going to have to Tag your account and send you links to all the Special Rules that will from then on apply to your posts and conduct. Remain incognito or declare your identity as an Audio Company Representative. You can not play both sides of the game here.

Fair enough Adam. You have your rules and I need to respect them. Please send over the info. If it's not too much paperwork, I don't mind. I will say, embarrassingly, I let $100 rebates go to waste! If it is not a lot of work, I'll be happy to oblige. If it's red tape, I'll be on my merry way.

 

[AdamG]

If it's red tape, I'll be on my merry way.

That’s an interesting way to make yourself feel at home. Like you would be doing us a favor by being a Member. You run a business I suspect and does interacting with other business that might bring you free advertising (We don’t charge a penny) and potential industry business contacts have their share of red tape? I will get right on that red tape stuff for you Sir.