Erin's Audio Corner gets a Klippel NFS!

[hardisj]

How's this?

Enhancement and compression are noted.
I also provide a note on how the mean is calculated (might take this note out).

 

[NTK]

Curious to know if there is any conditioning of the speaker during the tests, i.e. has the speaker been playing continuously at the dB SPL level so that the voice coils, magnets, cross-over components, etc have reached steady state temperature? I understand that this can be highly annoying to the people and animals inside the house.

 

[richard12511]

Would be interesting to see the Klipsch speakers on that metric, since dynamics is the one thing they supposedly excel at. You may have to go louder for speakers like that, though, and especially with even bigger speakers.

 

[hardisj]

Curious to know if there is any conditioning of the speaker during the tests, i.e. has the speaker been playing continuously at the dB SPL level so that the voice coils, magnets, cross-over components, etc have reached steady state temperature? I understand that this can be highly annoying to the people and animals inside the house.

Nope. The test I showed above is a quick sine sweep with no “pre-heating”.

But I’ve been thinking about that. I was doing multitone testing for max spl but I found that hardly anyone cared about those tests and they took so much time (not to mention they need to be done outdoors for a portion) that I didn’t see the point anymore. And this is a slippery slope...

I think the quick sweep compression check is useful and it’s easy enough to do that it’s a freebie. Me doing more than that quickly puts me back in to “where did all my time go” territory. I’m back at work in the lab every day now. I don’t have the luxury of time like I had when teleworking like I did most of last year.

 

[ctrl]

Nope. The test I showed above is a quick sine sweep with no “pre-heating”.

Are the measurements automated? If so, the order 76-86-96-76 (no, these are not alien body measurements) would ensure that heating (of voice coils) does not matter if measurement 76 = 76.

 

[Sancus]

I like it but I'd want to see 106dB too at least for larger speakers! I know, so demanding.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Just say thank you to Erin for providing the measurements “as is” as a little extra thing.

It seems every time he does something extra, it just gets a lot of you should do this instead. Then the next guy comes and says he should do something else, and then three pages later we have Erin just saying never mind, not worth the extra work.

Just like we have above already starting.

 

[Sancus]

Just say thank you to Erin for providing the measurements “as is” as a little extra thing.

It seems every time he does something extra, it just gets a lot of you should do this instead. Then the next guy comes and says he should do something else, and then three pages later we have Erin just saying never mind, not worth the extra work.

Just like we have above already starting.

I think Erin is an adult and if he posts something and asks for feedback he should get feedback and then he is perfectly capable of making his own decisions about what he does and does not want to spend his time on.

You make it sound like giving feedback implies the work isn't appreciated when it is the opposite. If people didn't care, the thread would just be empty of responses. Personally I highly appreciate his work and I actually think he is doing a better job than just about anyone out there on visualizations, including Amir.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

I think Erin is an adult and if he posts something and asks for feedback he should get feedback and then he is perfectly capable of making his own decisions about what he does and does not want to spend his time on.

You make it sound like giving feedback implies the work isn't appreciated when it is the opposite. If people didn't care, the thread would just be empty of responses. Personally I highly appreciate his work and I actually think he is doing a better job than just about anyone out there on visualizations, including Amir.

Telling him to change the thing he did when he asked can you tell what this is are two different things. He asked for feedback on the latter not the first.

 

[Sancus]

Telling him to change the thing he did when he asked can you tell what this is are two different things. He asked for feedback on the latter not the first.

I didn't TELL HIM to do anything at all, and this is not going to be a productive discussion for this thread so I won't be responding to you any further.

 

[NTK]

Just to be clear. What I asked Erin about is part of the standard procedure for testing maximum usable continuous output (SPLmuco) in CTA-2034. It isn't something I randomly came up with. I also realize this is a very difficult and time consuming test, and totally understand that he doesn't want to do it.

 

[hardisj]

I think @Jdunk54nl is feeling my pains from other posts/threads where I have admittedly "had it up to here" with the thanklessness (at times). It's not all that bad. But unfortunately the few annoying cases tend to outweigh the positive vibes. That said, I don't see any of that here. So no worries. But thanks for having my back @Jdunk54nl.

 

[hardisj]

Just to be clear. What I asked Erin about is part of the standard procedure for testing maximum usable continuous output (SPLmuco) in CTA-2034. It isn't something I randomly came up with. I also realize this is a very difficult and time consuming test, and totally understand that he doesn't want to do it.

Yep. You can look at some of my past tests where I did just that. Multitone spectrum for 1 minute. With 2 minutes rest in between. I may provide it every now and again in cases where I feel it helps to paint a more clear picture or if I can very audibly tell something isn't right and that bit of data is useful to telling the story rather than just saying "trust me".

 

[hardisj]

Okay, I agree that 96dB @ 1m is cool but having a little bit more would be useful. Some speakers can take more power. Others cannot. Of course, the issue is I am trying to streamline tests so there aren't "special cases" that wind up becoming more the norm than the "special". So, with that in mind, I have added 102dB to my linearity testing. I figured it would be needed so I went ahead and tested for that when I tested everything earlier. Glad I did.

This is likely where this testing will stop. 86, 96, 102dB @ 1m referenced to 76dB @ 1m. This gives us a good idea of the dynamic capabilities of a speaker. Or at least helps go toward answering that question. As I said above, if I find a case where I think extra data is warranted then I'll do that. But as far as mainstays go, you're looking at it.

I'm going to call it quits here. Thanks for the feedback. I hope you guys find this as useful as I do.

 

[richard12511]

Okay, I agree that 96dB @ 1m is cool but having a little bit more would be useful. Some speakers can take more power. Others cannot. Of course, the issue is I am trying to streamline tests so there aren't "special cases" that wind up becoming more the norm than the "special". So, with that in mind, I have added 102dB to my linearity testing. I figured it would be needed so I went ahead and tested for that when I tested everything earlier. Glad I did.

This is likely where this testing will stop. 86, 96, 102dB @ 1m referenced to 76dB @ 1m. This gives us a good idea of the dynamic capabilities of a speaker. Or at least helps go toward answering that question. As I said above, if I find a case where I think extra data is warranted then I'll do that. But as far as mainstays go, you're looking at it.

I'm going to call it quits here. Thanks for the feedback. I hope you guys find this as useful as I do.


View attachment 122498

Nice! You can see it’s starting to fall apart a just a wee bit at 102.

 

[whazzup]

Is compression in passive speakers always caused by the physical limits of the driver?

Whereas compression in actives can be a combination of driver limits and by electronic design?

 

[hardisj]

Got some good news I wanted to share.

First off, you guys know I use affiliate links in my videos (not on the forum). Those (hardly) help me offset my costs. I use them on speakers I like and even speakers I don't like (such as the Klipsch Heresy IV). FWIW, no one has bought anything I said I didn't like. So, there's that...

Anyway, I have been trying to find a company that would allow me to test the products they sell in exchange for me using their affiliate program. I reached out to Crutchfield, Sweetwater and B&H Photo over the last year. No luck. Until recently. I got on a zoom chat with a marketing rep from B&H yesterday to talk about this and he was really supportive of what I'm doing. They are putting me in their affiliate program but the good news for us is they are putting me in to their loaner system where they will loan me pretty much anything they sell within a $$$ total budget. They cover shipping to me and back. All I do in return is simply provide an affiliate link - which is what I was doing before. I understand some people see a problem with this but IMHO this is the best option for not just me but the entire community. I won't have to depend on manufacturers to loan me things and I won't have to risk getting potentially damaged used products from community members. And the rep even specifically stated that they expect nothing in my reviews other than integrity. If I don't like a product, say it. He said their "responsibility isn't to manufacturers but the customer". So, perfect.

I've already started looking at things they sell. I've got a list already. So, please don't bombard me with suggestions. However, I did want to note this because there are a lot of things people have asked me to review in the past (such as Genelec) that I could not get to test. Now, I can. This opens up a lot of opportunities for what I can test now. A big win for all of us.

**FWIW, if you really hate affiliate links, you don't have to click on them. You can always use Google. Furthermore, the affiliate percentage is something like 2% starting out so this isn't doing much more than buying me lunch if someone decides to buy an expensive item. So if you think this is a ploy for me to get rich, you're kidding yourself. Besides, look at what I have invested in to this hobby to provide free data. Money aside (which is considerable to say the least), I put a lot of my time in to this. So, I don't want to hear any BS about me selling out. Even Amir provides a generic Amazon affiliate link in his Donations page. Every little bit helps.**

 

[ribosradagast]

That's great news, man. I see it as a big win for both you, B&H, AND the consumer

 

[MZKM]

Crutchfield, Sweetwater and B&H Photo over the last year. No luck.

Crutchfield has an anechoic chamber for their speaker comparator (they measure a speaker, find the deviation from neutral, and apply that as an EQ to a track; so you can compare non-linearity of speakers, ideally of course), they could easily publish the measurements they take, but they don't. So no surprise they won't lend out to get NFS tested (probably because the brands they carry don't want them to).

Either way, great news about B&H!

 

[jtwrace]

Wish this forum had a "love" rather than just a "like"