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A Sonos One (Gen 2) sounds deeper, better and more punchy than my KEF R11

napilopez

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Yeah, just looking at that in room measurement it's clear they targeted proper in-room tuning. Buchardt also does loudness compensation on its active units and it's the only other implementaiton that I feel confident sounds better than with it off.

But yeah, if you're getting ~35hz in room that covers most music so within reasonable SPL limits, it's going to sound decent as long as distortion isn't ridiculously high (which the DSP compression normally avoids). Again, not surprised this sounds good. It's an active speaker clearly making the most out of its DSP.

And that's without even factoring TruePlay room correction, which in my experience also works more often than not. Better than my RX-685 ever managed to do on its own, for sure.
 

quattro98

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Can you configure your system to listen to the R11's without any room correction to see how this sounds?

I'm not familiar with YPAO, but even with full range speakers and subs, Audyssey requires tweaks to the target curve and/or sub levels to really work well (or you can use their loudness implementation).
 

Ze Frog

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Get this… two years ago, I bought:
- KEF R11
- Yamaha A-S1100 (integrated amp)
- Yamaha RX-A4A (receiver/streamer)
- R3’s + R2C for surround supplementation

I’ve been listening stereo for my whole life, and now surround for two years. For surround, I’m very happy (even without subwoofer yet).

However, no matter how many times I try to convince myself my system must be really really good, I can’t help but feel that every time I enter a coffee shop or any other business that has the Sonos One (Gen 2) or similar type of speaker, the bass response (among other things) is insanely better.

Like, literally, it goes much deeper, seems to be more in balance, and most of all it feels like a full-range speaker despite being so incredibly tiny. Just one such speaker in most rooms sounds like there’s a massive subwoofer attached to it (even though I can’t see any except that small box attached on the ceiling in a corner most of the time).

Am I crazy, or did I buy hard into audiophile foolery?? My system (with everything together) costs shortly over €10k, and a Sonos One (Gen 2) costs around €550.

I know room acoustics are in play, but I recently switched the system over to the wall that had the best in-room response, and yet it’s not even halfway close to the punch, power and deepness of the bass of the Sonos, AT ALL.

Everything is wired correctly, and I even use Room-correction on the Receiver. I have bass boost and bass itself upped a bit, and it’s still not the same.

Can someone help me out? Two pictures to clarify what I feel should make a difference but instead seems to be the world upside-down (my KEF R11’s and then the Sonos in a coffee shop I’m talking about sounds way better).

I realize a subwoofer could/should help out, but how in the world do my speakers not even come close even without a subwoofer?
Hmmm... now this sounds interesting. I can't afford the Kef R11, but can definitely afford the Sonos. What sounds better, just bass?
 

Tom Schneider

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We have two Sonos Ones outside on the patio playing in stereo mode. They are close to the back wall so bass is decent and with two they certainly play loud enough when we have guests over to swim in the pool. We also have an Era 300 in our family room since we have a no TV policy and only listen to music there. It sounds pretty good for what it is and is relatively inexpensive.
Do either setups approach my open baffle setup in my listening loft? Not even close but for general background music that everyone with a phone can stream to they are a great solution for minimal cost.
 

Digital_Thor

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Get this… two years ago, I bought:
- KEF R11
- Yamaha A-S1100 (integrated amp)
- Yamaha RX-A4A (receiver/streamer)
- R3’s + R2C for surround supplementation

I’ve been listening stereo for my whole life, and now surround for two years. For surround, I’m very happy (even without subwoofer yet).

However, no matter how many times I try to convince myself my system must be really really good, I can’t help but feel that every time I enter a coffee shop or any other business that has the Sonos One (Gen 2) or similar type of speaker, the bass response (among other things) is insanely better.

Like, literally, it goes much deeper, seems to be more in balance, and most of all it feels like a full-range speaker despite being so incredibly tiny. Just one such speaker in most rooms sounds like there’s a massive subwoofer attached to it (even though I can’t see any except that small box attached on the ceiling in a corner most of the time).

Am I crazy, or did I buy hard into audiophile foolery?? My system (with everything together) costs shortly over €10k, and a Sonos One (Gen 2) costs around €550.

I know room acoustics are in play, but I recently switched the system over to the wall that had the best in-room response, and yet it’s not even halfway close to the punch, power and deepness of the bass of the Sonos, AT ALL.

Everything is wired correctly, and I even use Room-correction on the Receiver. I have bass boost and bass itself upped a bit, and it’s still not the same.

Can someone help me out? Two pictures to clarify what I feel should make a difference but instead seems to be the world upside-down (my KEF R11’s and then the Sonos in a coffee shop I’m talking about sounds way better).

I realize a subwoofer could/should help out, but how in the world do my speakers not even come close even without a subwoofer?
Sometimes the room, the placement of the system and the main listening position can play tricks with us with any speaker - irrelevant of size, brand, price or type.

For my room, it is the soft wooden floor, which absorb quite a lot of bass, and then make a lot of smaller speakers lack the resonance that create the illusion of more bass. Rooms made of concrete walls and floors reflect low frequencies better, but also create a much larger sensation of "boom" in the bass.

No matter, you need subwoofers. Two well integrated subwoofers for both stereo and surround. Your speakers would love some space around them, but I understand that it's a luxury we don't all have.
I would plug the ports on the R11, and add two subwoofers - preferably closed types. Ports - in my view - is fake bass out of phase, creating more trouble than it solves. I've listened to soo many expensive loudspeakers that I would be tired of even mentioning them, but if someone wants specifics of these setups - let me know. They ALL needed some kind of EQ, subwoofers and plugged ports - if not already closed. I must admit that some passive woofer systems are quite ok - IMO.
I just used a Sunday at a friends friend, which have big Martin Logan Odyssey's driven by a Gryphon Diablo 300. Again.... needs subwoofers and EQ. It's ok sounding, but the bass is way too weak and the overall combination with the room, is not balanced well.

True that a lot of these "smart" speakers like Sonos can sound impressive at first. But if you nurture and fiddle a bit with your current system, then it will be 10 times better in the long run. It is just a much better speaker and all good things, need adjustments too :)
 

thewas

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I have never understood if this rule applies to any loudspeaker, active or passive, reflex or pneumatic suspension, with the reflex front or rear and whether it is measured from the front of the loudspeaker or from the back...
Yes this rule applies to any loudspeakers concept except if the loudspeaker has a cardioid behaviour in the bass. As the wavelength of the frequencies radiated by the ports are usually very large their position doesn't play a big role, for the rest the distance should be measured to the centre of the woofer(s) which is usually on the front baffle (but not always, see for example D&D 8c which has it for that reason in the rear).

monitorplacement_backwall.jpg
 

Esprit

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[…]Alternatively, the monitor could be moved considerably further away from the wall to eliminate back reflections. The cancellation frequency will be lowered below the low frequency cut-off of the monitor. When the monitor is moved away from the walls, it also moves close to the listener. This increases the direct sound level and reduces the reflected sound level which improves the sound quality.[…]

Is over one meter and ten centimeters measured from the back of the speaker ok?
 

Davide

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I too have often found all in one systems sounding better than my system.
Obviously I damned myself to be able to justify my extra expense.
I must say that experience has taught me that the frequency response (the timbre) is a determining and preponderant factor in perception.
After so many experiments I have seen (heard) that a timbre equal to that of certain AIO systems is actually more pleasant and the best quality of the HiFi system is perceptible in detail, definition, dynamics, distortion and max SPL.
Clearly the target at high frequencies is more a compromise between room and directivity of the specific HiFi system.
Therefore as many have already said, use a system that allows you to target a specific response (as well as correcting the inevitable problems of the room).
Unfortunately it takes a lot of experimentation...
AIO systems allow you to achieve a very good result without experimenting.
It depends on what you want to achieve and what you are willing to do.
 
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thewas

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[…]Alternatively, the monitor could be moved considerably further away from the wall to eliminate back reflections. The cancellation frequency will be lowered below the low frequency cut-off of the monitor. When the monitor is moved away from the walls, it also moves close to the listener. This increases the direct sound level and reduces the reflected sound level which improves the sound quality.[…]

Is over one meter and ten centimeters measured from the back of the speaker ok?
Actually usually the distance to the front of the speaker matters where the woofers are located, in the end you get also SBIR from other walls so its best to measure and compare the FR all possible placements in your individual room.
 
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