Klippel Question: Wharfedale Linton vs. Philharmonic BMR Monitor

[Henryk]

On a side note, I have a hard time believing something.

On Erin's site the Elac DBR62 and the Wharfedale Linton have almost identical F3 values (53 vs 52).
The cabinet and the woofer is so much smaller on the Elac that I have a hard time believing they can handle bass similarly.

Even if the F3 values are similar between speakers, would one still play noticeably deeper and lower than another?

 

[Ron Texas]

I have tried both speakers as well the KEF R3s. They are all very good speakers. Personally I preferred the Linton the most, the BMR a close second and the R3 a close third. You can search for threads here comparing BMR with R3 and also R3 vs Linton. I managed to snag the Linton at a good price so went with that (and sold my R3s for about the same price I paid for an *open box* Linton).

I do not think I’m letting go of the Lintons anytime soon.

Having said that, you definitely need to use peq to cut out room modes. I used DIRAC for all 3, without which get bass can get boomy

Right now the non meta R3's are cheap, but they need a little EQ because they are on the bright side. As for BMR vs Linton, the later is massed produced, easier to get ahold of and more likely to have parts available 10 years from now. Enjoy your Lintons.

 

[voodooless]

Even if the F3 values are similar between speakers, would one still play noticeably deeper and lower than another?

Yes, if the F6 or F10 values are different.

 

[rynberg]

Oh! I didn't know that volume affected frequency like that; That's helpful to know!
So, when trying to determine whether or not a speaker will be able to reach 30-40 dB at low volumes, what specification should I be looking at?
Would you be able to give me an example of a speaker which can, and one which cannot be called "full range"?



Thanks for sharing your experience!
Yeah, many others spoke about needing to use EQ.

From how people rave about using even entry level room correction, it is something I'd certainly like to try!
Is DIRAC somewhat easy to learn for a novice?

No offense, but you seem to be really focused on data (good) but have almost no understanding of it (bad). There are speaker data "101" posts/videos both here and on Erins' website/YouTube channel. I suggest you go through those and then you'll be in a much better place to understand the data you are looking at.

 

[Mnyb]

On a side note, I have a hard time believing something.

On Erin's site the Elac DBR62 and the Wharfedale Linton have almost identical F3 values (53 vs 52).
The cabinet and the woofer is so much smaller on the Elac that I have a hard time believing they can handle bass similarly.

Even if the F3 values are similar between speakers, would one still play noticeably deeper and lower than another?

Also depends on the spl you ask of them and sensitivity, fr response is one factor .

But if it also should play loud(er) and also have reasonable sensitivity you want a bigger speaker .

The smaller speakers may hit the same f3 but they won’t have the “guts” to continue to do this as you crank up the volume a bit or EQ the bass .

 

[Henryk]

No offense, but you seem to be really focused on data (good) but have almost no understanding of it (bad). There are speaker data "101" posts/videos both here and on Erins' website/YouTube channel. I suggest you go through those and then you'll be in a much better place to understand the data you are looking at.

None taken!
I've said several times I'm new to much of this.

I do a great deal of research on my own.
I only post a question after I've been unable to find the answer myself after searching.

Please don't feel the need to reply if you don't wish to.
Last thing I want to do is bother anyone here, seeing how much help they've been.

Also depends on the spl you ask of them and sensitivity, fr response is one factor .

But if it also should play loud(er) and also have reasonable sensitivity you want a bigger speaker .

The smaller speakers may hit the same f3 but they won’t have the “guts” to continue to do this as you crank up the volume a bit or EQ the bass .

Okay, that's where my mind was at as well.
Still... it's quite impressive what a bookshelf speaker can do compared so something with so much more internal volume.

 

[MarkS]

Really?!
So, by extension, would acoustic room treatment yield a more drastic sound quality improvement than going one step-up in speaker quality?

Yes, absolutely. But good physical room treatment requires professional measurement and installation, and therefore is quite expensive. Room EQ, on the other hand, is even more beneficial (IMO), and much cheaper.

 

[jhaider]

As for BMR vs Linton, the later is...more likely to have parts available 10 years from now...

This strikes me as exactly wrong. We know the part numbers for the drivers used in BMR, and they are available on the open market. (The tweeter may not be widely available, but it is a standard Raal part). With Linton I expect one is dependent on Wharfdale to maintain spares and keep them available.

 

[MarkS]

Ten years from now, you will want new speakers.

 

[thewas]

Yes, if the F6 or F10 values are different.

Which they are in this case, the Linton goes quite deeper https://www.spinorama.org/compare.h...ioCorner&speaker1=Elac+Debut+Reference+DBR-62

 

[MarkS]

Which they are in this case, the Linton goes quite deeper https://www.spinorama.org/compare.h...ioCorner&speaker1=Elac+Debut+Reference+DBR-62

The OP is comparing the Linton to the Philharmonic Audio BMR Monitor, not the Elac DBR-62. Here is that comparison:

Easily compare loudspeakers measurements

www.spinorama.org

 

[Koeitje]

Yes, if the F6 or F10 values are different.

Plus compression issues at higher volume levels.

 

[thewas]

The OP is comparing the Linton to the Philharmonic Audio BMR Monitor, not the Elac DBR-62. Here is that comparison:

Easily compare loudspeakers measurements

www.spinorama.org

He also compared them to the DBR-62 regarding the bass in post #21, which was what I was referring to.

 

[Henryk]

Yes, absolutely. But good physical room treatment requires professional measurement and installation, and therefore is quite expensive. Room EQ, on the other hand, is even more beneficial (IMO), and much cheaper.

I've seen tutorials for DIY acoustic panels. The bulk of the panel is a thick foam designed to absorb bass, and it's covered with a patterned/textured surface for higher frequency reflectivity. I'm sure the professional route would be better, but would something home-brewed be better than nothing? ...or could one actually make the room worse by adding acoustic material without the engineering knowledge?

Which they are in this case, the Linton goes quite deeper https://www.spinorama.org/compare.h...ioCorner&speaker1=Elac+Debut+Reference+DBR-62

Holy smokes! I was comparing charts manually with my eyes up to now - you just made life so much easier!
Can't thank you enough for pointing me to that resource. You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar

Plus compression issues at higher volume levels.

Yes, I certainly see that now. Thank you!

All that evidence backs up what my gut feeling was.
Now the whole thing makes much more sense.

 

[rynberg]

None taken!
I've said several times I'm new to much of this.

I do a great deal of research on my own.
I only post a question after I've been unable to find the answer myself after searching.

Please don't feel the need to reply if you don't wish to.
Last thing I want to do is bother anyone here, seeing how much help they've been.

I think you took my post the wrong way, I was trying to direct you specifically to locations where these speaker data are explained very clearly.

 

[617]

This strikes me as exactly wrong. We know the part numbers for the drivers used in BMR, and they are available on the open market. (The tweeter may not be widely available, but it is a standard Raal part). With Linton I expect one is dependent on Wharfdale to maintain spares and keep them available.

The BMR is made by a guy you can talk to on ASR. Like you can email him if you want.

You could buy an extra midrange pair for $30. The tweeter is somewhat more costly, but all the drivers are easily available.

I would honestly purchase the BMR for three reasons. One, it's a more innovative design. Two, it's made in the USA by people you can contact if you want, and who have supported audio culture for decades. Three, I think it looks nicer.

Not that it matters, but the drivers in the BMR are really high end. You're not getting RAAL tweeters in many speakers that cost less than $8.