WiiM Ultra

[rgruber]

I would think this late in the game they can't possibly implement a balanced architecture and balanced outs.

Must be a mistake.

Got this from WiiM today, regarding the Ultra :

"The WiiM Ultra supports balanced outputs, and we will support USB output in about a week, so please stay tuned."

No info yet on how balanced output will be implemented. (I prefer XLR connections.)

 

[zeropoint]

 

[zeropoint]

 

[Esprit]

Anyone interested in balanced outputs, you can always use the digital out to a DAC with balanced outs. If you’re that keen on balanced implementation, you’ve most likely got one of those already.

Or if there really is a USB output (it seems strange to me...) connect the DAC to the USB.

 

[ejr]

Just got this correction from Wiim:

"We apologize for the misunderstanding. It seems you are inquiring about XLR balanced outputs, rather than the audio balance feature. Unfortunately, the WiiM Ultra does not support XLR balanced outputs."

I knew it was too good to be true.

 

[ejr]

Just got this from Wiim:

"We apologize for the misunderstanding. It seems you are inquiring about XLR balanced outputs, rather than the audio balance feature. Unfortunately, the WiiM Ultra does not support XLR balanced outputs."

I knew it was too good to be true.

 

[rgruber]

Just got this from Wiim:

"We apologize for the misunderstanding. It seems you are inquiring about XLR balanced outputs, rather than the audio balance feature. Unfortunately, the WiiM Ultra does not support XLR balanced outputs."

I knew it was too good to be true.

Will have to wait for ne plus ultra.

 

[Evo42]

Don't you only need XLR balanced if you're running long distance cables?

 

[staticV3]

Don't you only need XLR balanced if you're running long distance cables?

Annoying Ground loops can happen at any cable length.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

So just an opinion here.

Yes, you can get ground loops. From my experience - both personal and listening to others - these happen most often when either you have a long chain of several powered devices, and/or (especially) if a computer is involved.

In ye olde dayes™ of hi-fi we generally had a short chain of source (CD player, cassette deck) into amp, into passive speakers (which don’t count for this topic, as they’re not powered). So really just two components. And who got ground loops? They were pretty much unheard of, at least in that sort of set up.

I think we started to see more when we got chains of PC into DAC into headphone amp (with pass through) into amp. Long chains. PC involved.

Anyway, if you think of the Ultra as a replacement for your CD player, that just the Ultra + amp, so happy days.

If you’re plugging anything external in, I’d go for a digital source, and connect via optical, which by-passes the issue in its own way.

As I’ve said a few posts ago, if you have something else plugged in, and you get ground loops, consider going for an external DAC, connected by optical.

Sorry, just a few musings. As you were.

 

[Evo42]

Used to have ground loop issues with my turntables when DJing but haven't come across it with my hifi.

 

[terryforsythe]

Don't you only need XLR balanced if you're running long distance cables?

Some amplifiers only have balanced inputs.

 

[Joffy1780]

Some amplifiers only have balanced inputs.

Unless these amps need the full 4v to reach full power, you can use an RCA to XLR cable and it matters not (unless you have ground loop issues).

 

[terryforsythe]

Unless these amps need the full 4v to reach full power

That's the key.

Some amps with balanced input need more than 2V to reach full output power (e.g., Topping LA90 Discrete).

Moreover, some amps have different gain settings - the lower gain settings have a better SNR. Balanced output, at double the output voltage than unbalanced, may allow for a lower gain setting. E.g., in the middle gain setting (21.8) with 4V input, a Hypex Nilai amp will output as much power as a 2V input in the high gain setting (27.8), but with 5 dB better SNR (109 vs 104).

Also, with my Nilai, the mid gain setting is fine with 4V input, but after I apply a lot of PEQ in DSP, it works better with high gain. 2V input would be too low to get near full power with the DSP I have applied.

Personally, I would not use an RCA to XLR cable for the reasons discussed above.

 

[Joffy1780]

That's the key.

Some amps with balanced input need more than 2V to reach full output power (e.g., Topping LA90 Discrete).

Moreover, some amps have different gain settings - the lower gain settings have a better SNR. Balanced output, at double the outp okut voltage than unbalanced, may allow for a lower gain setting. E.g., in the middle gain setting (21.8) with 4V input, a Hypex Nilai amp will output as much power as a 2V input in the high gain setting (27.8), but with 5 dB better SNR (109 vs 104).

Also, with my Nilai, the mid gain setting is fine with 4V input, but after I apply a lot of PEQ in DSP, it works better with high gain. 2V input would would be too low to get near full power with the DSP I have applied.

Personally, I would not use an RCA to XLR cable for the reasons discussed above.

I appreciate all of that, but if you don't need more than 2v, which is what I said, then it's not really an issue.

 

[terryforsythe]

I appreciate all of that, but if you don't need more than 2v, which is what I said, then it's not really an issue.

If someone knows for sure that they won't need more than 2V, I agree.

 

[ejr]

I was thinking of buying two of these -- one for a small single-ended audio system in my dining room (replacing my Loxjie D30 + iPad) which goes into my Emotiva pre-amp, the other for the TV audio in my bedroom (replacing my Loxjie D40 and streaming Amazon Music through my Roku app) so I wouldn't have keep the TV on when listening to music.

My personal experience is as follows: I have had more problems with single-ended connections (static and dropouts), but then I have a more single-ended setups than I have balanced. The only time I ever had problems with balanced connections was when they had to plug into 1/4 inch balanced jack (especially with cables that were XLR on the speaker side and 1/4 inch balanced on the amp or audio interface side).

To me, XLR plugs just seem to be sturdier and better made. (Though that could be because the companies that make them tend to market them to pro or high-end audio customers.)

 

[TonyJZX]

my feelings about XLR in regards to this product is that I would love if they released an Ultra Pro Max edition but I think that its one of those things that you yourself as an educated buyer should make an informed decison about...

I have an XLR amp and I would prefer to use this but I also realise that its really not buying you anything in the modern era except for the safety blanket of the zero possibility of interference from preamp to power amp.

you arent 'missing out' by not having it but it costs little to get it in your next power amp so you can get it as a 'frill' - the cables dont cost much anyway

ALSO i've always thought rca was a pretty piss poor excuse of a connector and that SOLID feel of XLR sort of makes whatever miminal price increase worth it

that solid *CLICK* of XLR... also the fact the plugs are like half an inch in diameter... its overkill

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I think often the quality of a connector, be it XLR, banana plug, RCA, HDMI, whatever, is more down to the quality of the manufacture of the plug itself, and more often the socket itself, than the type.

 

[terryforsythe]

I have an XLR amp and I would prefer to use this but I also realise that its really not buying you anything in the modern era except for the safety blanket of the zero possibility of interference from preamp to power amp.

Some amps with balanced input need more than 2V to reach full output power (e.g., Topping LA90 Discrete).

Moreover, some amps have different gain settings - the lower gain settings have a better SNR. Balanced output, at double the output voltage than unbalanced, may allow for a lower gain setting. E.g., in the middle gain setting (21.8) with 4V input, a Hypex Nilai amp will output as much power as a 2V input in the high gain setting (27.8), but with 5 dB better SNR (109 vs 104).

Also, with my Nilai, the mid gain setting is fine with 4V input, but after I apply a lot of PEQ in DSP, it works better with high gain. 2V input would be too low to get near full power with the DSP I have applied.