Music Streaming Devices Comparison Discussion

[Pearljam5000]

Just a quick info:
yesterday my WiiM ultra arrived and I integrated it into my setup, replacing a SONOS port.
Due to WiiM ultra lacking Airplay I added a WiiM mini for this.

My setup now looks like this:

Streaming Device: WiiM ultra + WiiM mini for Airplay, The mini is connected using optical interface to the ultra and is using the USB port from the ultra for power supply.
Volume Control and connection to the speakers: RME ADI-2 DAC fs connected via optical interface with the WiiM ultra
Speakers: Neumann KH750 + 2xKH310 connected to the RME.

My music is on my Synology NAS (approx, 40k files) different quality, from low end MP3 up to hires and flac files.
Setup of the WiiM ultra was a piece of cake. All works fine and I am happy to have the SONOS stuff kicked out (not because of the hardware, but because of the curently bad software).

Ok, I am using the DAC of the RME instead of the one in the WiiM, but the RME specs are good enough for me and the RME has a better adaptive loudness function IMHO. Last but not least, it has XLR output, so I do not need to convert RCA unsymmetrical to XLR symmetrical.

I planned to go for the Eversolo DMP A8, but currently I see no reason for that step. Price wise my setup is quite attractive I guess.

Could you compare the WiiM Ultra's DAC to the RME's DAC?
Thanks

 

[multichannel_guy]

So...I am hearing some detail on this Ultra on a couple of tracks that i'm not hearing on my SMSL. Going back and forth, it is more audible on this Wiim. What the hell is going on here man? I thought all DACs in the world should sound the same after reading through ASR audio services threads.

 

[Abdo]

So...I am hearing some detail on this Ultra on a couple of tracks that i'm not hearing on my SMSL. Going back and forth, it is more audible on this Wiim. What the hell is going on here man? I thought all DACs in the world should sound the same after reading through ASR audio services threads.

and people spending fortunes......on ultra processed DACs....

 

[Abdo]

I've always seen DACs as equalizers and each company decides to put it as they think is best, obviously with a lot of subtlety to show that they are neutral etc... but deep down they all process... and then there's this huge discussion when comparing in neutral mode... but in reality there is nothing neutral...
The moment you learn this... you stop spending money on expensive components and equalize the sounds that please your ears... simple as that.

 

[Brian Hall]

Has anyone any measurements/reviews regarding the headphone amp in this? It never seems to get a mention.

No measurements, but it sounds as good as the Schiit Midgard to me and has more than enough power to drive my headphones.

 

[Brian Hall]

So...I am hearing some detail on this Ultra on a couple of tracks that i'm not hearing on my SMSL. Going back and forth, it is more audible on this Wiim. What the hell is going on here man? I thought all DACs in the world should sound the same after reading through ASR audio services threads.

Perceived differences are usually in loudness. Even a small increase can be interpreted as sounding better.

 

[multichannel_guy]

Perceived differences are usually in loudness. Even a small increase can be interpreted as sounding better.

Hell no.... try again...Measured db levels are the same at my listening position. There is this percussion in the background i can hear on the Wiim. I can't hear it on the SMSL, it just ain't there guy!!

 

[Brian Hall]

Hell no.... try again...Measured db levels are the same at my listening position. There is this percussion in the background i can hear on the Wiim. I can't hear it on the SMSL, it just ain't there guy!!

I don't have any SMSL products so I can't try to reproduce what you are experiencing. I just know the SMSL products seem to be well regarded and measure well. Maybe someone who owns one can respond.

The Ultra is a great product. I just wouldn't expect the dac to sound different / better than any other good dac.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I'm thinking not all DACs sound the same despite the measurements

 

[Purité Audio]

All properly engineered dacs sound pretty much identical/identical depending upon reconstruction filter.
Keith

 

[sealpin]

As long as you don‘t mingle with digital filters or any DSP features (which would be visible in measurement anyway) DAC which measurebthe same do not sound diferent.

Maybe the analog stage could have some sounding (e.g. if you have tupe output stage) but you would see this in the measurements as well.

Long story short: DAC with same measurement sound the same.

If you think you hear differences, perform measurments of the devices. If you see differences in measurements, fine. If not, your hearing is an anecdotal description.

 

[Romario]

Hell no.... try again...Measured db levels are the same at my listening position. There is this percussion in the background i can hear on the Wiim. I can't hear it on the SMSL, it just ain't there guy!!

Switch the cables ( I'm kidding)

 

[Pearljam5000]

Let's assume all DACs sound the same
Then why is ESS and AKM are still making new DAC chips?
Why bother?

 

[Purité Audio]

Capitalism.
Keith

 

[staticV3]

Let's assume all DACs sound the same
Then why is ESS and AKM are still making new DAC chips?
Why bother?

Why do Apple, Amazon, Qobuz etc bother pushing 192kHz audio to consumers?

In terms of audio fidelity, it serves zero purpose. Just terabytes of additional data traffic with no appreciable effect.

The reason they do it is because their customers think that higher number = higher sound quality, and so they're willing to pay more.

Exactly the same thing applies to DAC chip manufacturers.

 

[somebodyelse]

Let's assume all DACs sound the same
Then why is ESS and AKM are still making new DAC chips?
Why bother?

Because much of the market depends on marketing BS, constantly wanting something new to sell. Both ESS and AKM pander to this rather than risk losing sales to the other.

 

[Abdo]

Every time I think about trading in my good old 30-year-old MA6800... I go back...
Now in the next few days a dealer is going to send me a Hegel 390 (almost half the price) because now he has the 400...
He wants me to test it and if I like it I can keep it... I did this a long time ago and always ended up keeping my old one even though it doesn't have any digital inputs.
Cables are another thing, this same dealer about 3 months ago sent me 3 speaker cables to test...
Honestly I couldn't see any difference between them and my old Canary of over 15 years...
I have invested in streamers and storage, but I still keep about 80 Vinyl and a Jazz and Rock collection of 4500 CDs...

 

[uofmtiger]

Why do Apple, Amazon, Qobuz etc bother pushing 192kHz audio to consumers?

In terms of audio fidelity, it serves zero purpose. Just terabytes of additional data traffic with no appreciable effect.

The reason they do it is because their customers think that higher number = higher sound quality, and so they're willing to pay more.

Exactly the same thing applies to DAC chip manufacturers.

I believe Apple has said that their 256k files were transparent, so it was just market forces getting them to offer hi res. They did not increase price for it, so it was more about getting some people to stay with them rather than moving to Tidal/Qobuz and I believe this was also after Spotify's initial announcement that they would be offering hi res (which would be a much bigger issue for Apple). I don't think Apple is very serious about lossless/hi res, since they still send 256k via Airplay 2 with Apple Music.

I don't think Amazon charged extra for it, either. The main thing that gave Tidal/Qobuz a foot in the door was hi res, so that is no longer the case. I suspect a lot of Tidal/Qobuz users are staying around for the plug ins (Roon, Audirvana, LMS, etc). However, that is a smaller part of the market than the people wanting access lossless and hi res.

 

[hatmann900]

Quantity does not mean quality.
I have been using Apple products for over 20 years, but I refuse to use this horrendous thing that is Apple Music.
But there are people who like it, many people are complacent, which is why the Apple system is closed, and people end up subscribing without even understanding what they are doing.
Services like Tidal and Qbouz are for people who understand the subject, they will never be high-volume services.
But they are quality services. Just like Roon, after I discovered Roon, I hardly ever leave it.
I tested countless services until I found it. I would like to have an alternative that is as good as Roon, but at the moment I don't see anyone.
Roon is not perfect, I have my criticisms of them, and they know that.
I hope they fix the problems we are going through, but it is still the best in my opinion.

What differences have you found in ease of use and sound quality between Quobuz and Tidal?

 

[Abdo]

What differences have you found in ease of use and sound quality between Quobuz and Tidal?

I can't tell the difference in the audio between the two, maybe my ears are already tired... lol. As for usage, I prefer Tidal, I understand myself better with it. Now the question is why both... there are many things that are on Tidal that are not on Qobuz... and vice versa. Just like I subscribe to Spotify, there are songs that are only on there... but Spotify is not on Roon, so my Spotify is more for when I'm on the street, with phones and the connections are slower and then I prefer Spotify. I sync my playlists using Soundiz, I've already looked for something better, if by chance you have any suggestions