Music Streaming Devices Comparison Discussion

[Purité Audio]

The engineering has to be really pretty poor before there are audible differences, and as far as I am aware comparison( with a known reference) is really the only way to determine audibility.
Keith

 

[JustJones]

Wiim Pro plus

WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Pro Plus streamer, DAC and preamplifier with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $219. While the case is plastic, it still "looks the part" as the Brits would say relative to other more famous brands of...

audiosciencereview.com

SMSL SU-1

SMSL SU-1 Stereo DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the SMSL SU-1 stereo USB DAC. It was arranged to be sent to me by shenzhenaudio from the company and costs US $79.99. Despite its simplicity, the SU-1 manages to look elegant with nice fonts and LED indicators for different inputs. Back panel has...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[antcollinet]

In the real case given above, has the Wiim Ultra been measured to be “transparent”?

Not so far that I have seen. However there is no reason to expect it wont be at least as good as the pro+ which has been. We'll see when one is actually measured.

Has the SMSL DAC mentioned above also been measured to be “transparent”?

Which SMSL DAC (I can't see it on this page, and I'm not going to trawl back through potentially the whole thread to find it)

EDIT - I see you've already been answered, so yes.

 

[popej]

Re the SMSL and Wiim possibly sounding different:- record the analogue outputs directly. Accurately level match. Flip the phase of one. If it nulls it sounds the same. There is no difference to hear. If not, it IS different.

If it is different it doesn't mean, that difference can be heard. Since you already have 2 recordings, level matched and synchronized, simply do ABX on PC.

 

[antcollinet]

Re the SMSL and Wiim possibly sounding different:- record the analogue outputs directly. Accurately level match. Flip the phase of one. If it nulls it sounds the same. There is no difference to hear. If not, it IS different.

If it is different it doesn't mean, that difference can be heard. Since you already have 2 recordings, level matched and synchronized, simply do ABX on PC.

That method of nulling won't work. If the clocks of the two dacs are not exactly the same - and of course, they are not, the two recordings will drift in time causing a mismatch when you try to null.

Instead you need to import both into (eg) delta wave, which can sync and level match them and produce the null. It will also allow you to abx between them to see if you (whoever) can hear the difference they think they can.

 

[lowkeyoperations]

I’m looking to get a streamer/preamp to replace my MacMini in the lounge room. It will be connected to the digital coax input of my Dynaudio XD20 active speakers, so the DAC is not going to be part of the consideration.

The Wiim Ultra looks like it has the best functionality for me, with a phono input, sub out and room correction potential (I’m currently using Dirac Live and don’t think I could ever go back to no room correction).

Assuming the Wiim Ultra is a slight improvement over the Wiim Pro Plus, do you see any reason (from a sound perspective) to pay more and go with an Eversolo A6 or even A8?

 

[tw99]

I’m looking to get a streamer/preamp to replace my MacMini in the lounge room. It will be connected to the digital coax input of my Dynaudio XD20 active speakers, so the DAC is not going to be part of the consideration.

The Wiim Ultra looks like it has the best functionality for me, with a phono input, sub out and room correction potential (I’m currently using Dirac Live and don’t think I could ever go back to no room correction).

Assuming the Wiim Ultra is a slight improvement over the Wiim Pro Plus, do you see any reason (from a sound perspective) to pay more and go with an Eversolo A6 or even A8?

No. The overriding consideration is to get a device with the features you need, and a UI that you get along with (screen/remote/phone/app/whatever)

 

[Jazz]

Let's assume all DACs sound the same
Then why is ESS and AKM are still making new DAC chips?
Why bother?

They sound better.

 

[somebodyelse]

They sound better.

Objection: assumes facts not in evidence.

 

[ahofer]

Hell no.... try again...Measured db levels are the same at my listening position.

You can't do it accurately enough that way. Measure voltage at the terminals with a good test signal.

Below is a good, large group experiment that a) tells you that many probably *can* hear differences at the very extremes of DAC design and b) that those differences are really, really small. It does not settle the question of where it's coming from, as it lacks measurements. Informed speculation welcome.

2024 "High-End" DAC Blind Listening Survey!

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

bonus: comedy gold in the comments

 

[Jazz]

Objection: assumes facts not in evidence.

OK, they sound better to AKM and ESS engineers and customers.
and me…

 

[ahofer]

OK, they sound better to AKM and ESS engineers and customers.
and me…

But you don’t know whether they were just louder.

 

[somebodyelse]

OK, they sound better to AKM and ESS engineers and customers.
and me…

Same objection. AKM & ESS marketing departments will certainly claim that, but without providing evidence. Many end customers will think that, but without having done a properly controlled comparison (one that removes confounding factors, making sure it's really about what you can actually hear).

 

[Jazz]

Same objection. AKM & ESS marketing departments will certainly claim that, but without providing evidence. Many end customers will think that, but without having done a properly controlled comparison (one that removes confounding factors, making sure it's really about what you can actually hear).

I decided to ask an AI. Here is what it came up with:

AKM and ESS DACs are considered among the best in the audio industry due to their unique characteristics and technological advancements that cater to different audio preferences and applications.

AKM DACs​

AKM (Asahi Kasei Microdevices) DACs are renowned for their balanced and smooth sound signature. They are often described as having a well-rounded audio profile with a bassier and smoother output, which can sometimes lead to a loss of texture in the midrange. AKM DACs are praised for their ability to capture the tone and notes of individual instruments effectively, making them suitable for listeners who appreciate a more natural and dynamic soundstage. This characteristic allows AKM DACs to excel in reproducing the full dynamic range of audio, from quiet passages to loud crescendos, with a sense of depth and space.

ESS DACs​

ESS Technology's Sabre DACs are highly regarded for their advanced technological features and superior audio performance. These DACs utilize a patented 32-bit HyperStream architecture, which significantly reduces jitter and distortion, resulting in a more accurate and detailed sound reproduction. ESS Sabre DACs are known for their high-resolution audio processing capabilities, delivering ultra-low distortion and high signal-to-noise ratios, which make them a popular choice for audiophiles and high-end audio systems.ESS DACs are often described as having a more detailedand revealing sound, with a focus on high-frequency clarity and emotional vocal presentation. This makes them particularly appealing to those who enjoy a more immersive and exciting listening experience. Furthermore, ESS DACs are versatile and can be used in a wide range of audio systems, from home theaters to portable devices, supporting various audio formats like PCM, DSD, and MQA.

Comparison​

Feature	AKM DACs	ESS DACs
Sound Signature	Balanced, bassier, smoother	Detailed, revealing, high-frequency clarity
Technology	Focus on capturing tone and dynamics	32-bit HyperStream architecture, low jitter
Applications	Natural soundstage, instrument-focused	Immersive, emotional vocal presentation
Versatility	Best with direct source material	Versatile, supports multiple audio formats
User Experience	Dynamic, spacious sound	Exciting, immersive sound

Both AKM and ESS DACs have their unique strengths, and the choice between them often comes down to personal preference and specific audio requirements. AKM DACs are ideal for those who prefer a smooth and natural sound, while ESS DACs are suited for listeners who prioritize detail and clarity in their audio experience.

 

[somebodyelse]

I decided to ask an AI. Here is what it came up with:

Unsurprisingly a distillation of marketing tripe and subjective reviews, completely lacking in evidence. Did you ask it to provide proof of any assertions?

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I decided to ask an AI. Here is what it came up with:

AKM and ESS DACs are considered among the best in the audio industry due to their unique characteristics and technological advancements that cater to different audio preferences and applications.

AKM DACs​

AKM (Asahi Kasei Microdevices) DACs are renowned for their balanced and smooth sound signature. They are often described as having a well-rounded audio profile with a bassier and smoother output, which can sometimes lead to a loss of texture in the midrange. AKM DACs are praised for their ability to capture the tone and notes of individual instruments effectively, making them suitable for listeners who appreciate a more natural and dynamic soundstage. This characteristic allows AKM DACs to excel in reproducing the full dynamic range of audio, from quiet passages to loud crescendos, with a sense of depth and space.

ESS DACs​

ESS Technology's Sabre DACs are highly regarded for their advanced technological features and superior audio performance. These DACs utilize a patented 32-bit HyperStream architecture, which significantly reduces jitter and distortion, resulting in a more accurate and detailed sound reproduction. ESS Sabre DACs are known for their high-resolution audio processing capabilities, delivering ultra-low distortion and high signal-to-noise ratios, which make them a popular choice for audiophiles and high-end audio systems.ESS DACs are often described as having a more detailedand revealing sound, with a focus on high-frequency clarity and emotional vocal presentation. This makes them particularly appealing to those who enjoy a more immersive and exciting listening experience. Furthermore, ESS DACs are versatile and can be used in a wide range of audio systems, from home theaters to portable devices, supporting various audio formats like PCM, DSD, and MQA.

Comparison​

Feature	AKM DACs	ESS DACs
Sound Signature	Balanced, bassier, smoother	Detailed, revealing, high-frequency clarity
Technology	Focus on capturing tone and dynamics	32-bit HyperStream architecture, low jitter
Applications	Natural soundstage, instrument-focused	Immersive, emotional vocal presentation
Versatility	Best with direct source material	Versatile, supports multiple audio formats
User Experience	Dynamic, spacious sound	Exciting, immersive sound

Both AKM and ESS DACs have their unique strengths, and the choice between them often comes down to personal preference and specific audio requirements. AKM DACs are ideal for those who prefer a smooth and natural sound, while ESS DACs are suited for listeners who prioritize detail and clarity in their audio experience.

LLMs are trained on data that already exists. Imagine someone who has read every review ever written about DACs and every thread on every forum. They forget nothing and are able to make connections. What they aren't doing is displaying knowledge or truth, at best it is a distillation of what has been said elsewhere.

 

[MaxBuck]

Artificial Intelligence doesn't guarantee intelligence.

 

[antcollinet]

Artificial Intelligence doesn't guarantee intelligence.

In fact they are guaranteed to regurgitate the nonsense on which they are trained.

 

[tsfreo]

I’m looking to get a streamer/preamp to replace my MacMini in the lounge room. It will be connected to the digital coax input of my Dynaudio XD20 active speakers, so the DAC is not going to be part of the consideration.

The Wiim Ultra looks like it has the best functionality for me, with a phono input, sub out and room correction potential (I’m currently using Dirac Live and don’t think I could ever go back to no room correction).

Assuming the Wiim Ultra is a slight improvement over the Wiim Pro Plus, do you see any reason (from a sound perspective) to pay more and go with an Eversolo A6 or even A8?

A bit of an aside from your direct question, which was about 'sound perspective', but obviously the Eversolo A6 and A8 offer other advantages such as build quality (for example, see discussions about the feel of the Ultra volume knob) or additional inputs/outputs or screen size or internal SSD etc. The A8 is really a good preamp with a streamer, the A6 is a streamer that you can use as a preamp (like the Ultra).
But if you like Dirac then take a look at the Node Icon which is coming from Bluesound (again, maybe for build quality or twin 1/4" headphone outs or having Airplay).
Bang for buck, the Ultra. But there are things you get for the extra bucks with other units that, in day to day use, may well be of value to you. Cheers

 

[lowkeyoperations]

Alas, here in Australia the A6 is double the price of the Wiim Ultra and the A8 is quadruple.

Functionality wise the Ultra has a phono input and room correction.

The A6 has cd ripping and local storage, which is cool, but no phono and no peq/room correction if I’m correct. It also has AirPlay which I might miss occasionally on the Wiim.

The A8 adds peq and balanced in/out (which I don’t need).

Node Icon sites between the A6 and A8 pricewise. Dirac is nice, but I’m thinking the peq functionality of the others might get me most of the way there

I think realistically for me the Wiim is probably the best functionality.

Alternatively I might just stick with my Mac Mini. It runs Dirac Live. Has additional EQ and compression that I use for movie and TV dialogue, runs Spotify, YouTube, Soundcloud, radio/TV etc. My current turntable has USB so I can connect to that, and then I send a coax digital out signal to my digital active speakers.

My wife doesn’t love the complexity of it, so I thought an all in one streamer/preamp might simplify things.