Tube connectors. Wtf

[ROOSKIE]

My younger son just bought an older home and part of it is still knob and tube wiring. Reminded me of GR’s tube connector and then realized the older tube is an insulator rather than a conductor. Maybe his next tube connector claim will be it is also a better insulator!

I recently came across another GR speaker upgrade video. After showing a woofer resonance issue, his fix was to replace the driver with one of his own. He had to mold an adapter ring to get his smaller woofer to fit. I have noticed that his range of driver choices is limited to the ones he sells. Ofc, the kit includes his tube connectors and was a mere $500 upgrade kit for his mods to a $500 (a pair) speaker.

Wow, that is some old wiring.
Just in case, when I was buying my house a couple years ago my insurance company said they do not insure homes that still use knob and tube and if I bought one I would have just 60days to upgrade the whole thing. (AMFAM)
I looked into it further after being told that and it seems many insurance companies do not.
It is well out of electrical code here at any rate.
Anyway, if you didn't already check, might want to make sure the home will be covered if the electrical causes any unfortunate loss.

 

[fpitas]

Since we're trotting out our favorite connectors, I use these:

Vampire Connector BP-HEX Series Gold-Plated Dual Binding Posts, machined

VAMPIRE BP-HEX Gold-Plated Dual Binding Posts, machined You’ll love the durable, no-nonsense construction of these binding posts. A single piece of hard brass transmits your music signal with full detail and clarity. It’s plated first in copper, then silver and gold to help you achieve the...

www.partsconnexion.com

You can remove the cap to use a ring terminal and crush washer and wrench the cap to actually get things nice and tight. Amir had trouble with loose speaker connections during a test, they can degrade SINAD.

I keep hearing Speakons are good too, although I have no personal experience.

 

[fpitas]

If you're on a budget, a simple barrier strip is a good option:

Cinch Jones - 1941529A2 - 2-140 - Terminal Strip / Block. Dual Barrier, 2 Position, 2 x 2 Screw.

Cinch Jones - 1941529A2 - 2-140 - Terminal Strip / Block. Dual Barrier, Non-Feed Through 2 Position, 2 x 2 Screw. Insulation Material: Molded monoblock, general purpose Phenolic, black, UL Rated 94V-1 Eyelets: Material - Brass, Nickel Plated Voltage Rating: 250VACrms Current Rating: 15A Screw...

www.electronicsurplus.com

Not pretty, but electrically sound.

I would avoid anything that audiophiles recommend, just on principle.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Wow, that is some old wiring.
Just in case, when I was buying my house a couple years ago my insurance company said they do not insure homes that still use knob and tube and if I bought one I would have just 60days to upgrade the whole thing. (AMFAM)
I looked into it further after being told that and it seems many insurance companies do not.
It is well out of electrical code here at any rate.
Anyway, if you didn't already check, might want to make sure the home will be covered if the electrical causes any unfortunate loss.

Thanks, though did not elaborate earlier, much of the older electrical service had been replaced. Ofc, to replace entirely would be expensive. His insurance indicated this was sufficient.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

4:22 for reference lol

the man's clearly an expert on connectors :/

Thanks, then I didn't have to watch it all..

 

[carlmart]

If you're on a budget, a simple barrier strip is a good option:

Cinch Jones - 1941529A2 - 2-140 - Terminal Strip / Block. Dual Barrier, 2 Position, 2 x 2 Screw.

Cinch Jones - 1941529A2 - 2-140 - Terminal Strip / Block. Dual Barrier, Non-Feed Through 2 Position, 2 x 2 Screw. Insulation Material: Molded monoblock, general purpose Phenolic, black, UL Rated 94V-1 Eyelets: Material - Brass, Nickel Plated Voltage Rating: 250VACrms Current Rating: 15A Screw...

www.electronicsurplus.com

Not pretty, but electrically sound.

I would avoid anything that audiophiles recommend, just on principle.

Are they magnetic or bronze?

 

[fpitas]

Are they magnetic or bronze?

Not sure. The datasheet would tell you. Does that matter?

 

[carlmart]

Not sure. The datasheet would tell you. Does that matter?

Yes, you should never use magnetic metal in an audio signal path. Magnetism affects the signal going through.
But some people do not care for that.

 

[fpitas]

Yes, you should never use magnetic metal in an audio signal path. Magnetism affects the signal going through.
But some people do not care for that.

Oh, ok. I wasn't aware of that.

 

[mhardy6647]

I mean, I'm not an EE but...
don't transformers use... umm... magnetism?
And aren't many chassis and such... umm... you know... the "M" word?

 

[carlmart]

Yes, and speakers too. But the problem is when the signal goes THROUGH a magnetic wire. Transformers use copper wire.
Magnetism is induced and re-converted or isolated from one side of the transformer to the other.
The problem are the non-linearities in the electrical signals, which are worst for certain metals.

 

[tmtomh]

My younger son just bought an older home and part of it is still knob and tube wiring. Reminded me of GR’s tube connector and then realized the older tube is an insulator rather than a conductor. Maybe his next tube connector claim will be it is also a better insulator!

I recently came across another GR speaker upgrade video. After showing a woofer resonance issue, his fix was to replace the driver with one of his own. He had to mold an adapter ring to get his smaller woofer to fit. I have noticed that his range of driver choices is limited to the ones he sells. Ofc, the kit includes his tube connectors and was a mere $500 upgrade for his mods to a $500 (a pair) speaker set.

I'm certainly not a fan of those tube connectors, and I've had multiple exchanges with Danny in the comment section of a couple of his YT videos - so I'm not defending his practices here. But I do think it's worth noting that he never seems to be trying to sell his upgrade kits as something people should buy along with the original speaker. Instead, he positions them as kits that can fix or improve speakers that folks already own - so the cost of the original speakers is a sunk cost for the owner, and the cost of the GR upgrade is to be compared to the cost of buying replacement speakers, not the cost of the existing speakers.

All that said, I can't imagine many scenarios where it wouldn't make more sense to sell your existing speakers and combine the proceeds with what you would have spent on the GR upgrade, and put all that money into a new pair of speakers that have known-good measurements.

 

[Tangband]

Yes, and speakers too. But the problem is when the signal goes THROUGH a magnetic wire. Transformers use copper wire.
Magnetism is induced and re-converted or isolated from one side of the transformer to the other.
The problem are the non-linearities in the electrical signals, which are worst for certain metals.

This is something easily forgotten. This is also probably true using different RCA connectors , not just loudspeaker terminals. But how much does a magnetic contact change the signal ? I guess everything from between nothing to just barely measurable, - but is it audible ?

If magnetic contacts can worsening the sound then Danny has a theoretical reason why tubeconnectors might sound better ( if they do ). In many videos he often shows that cheap bindning posts are magnetical. Drawing conclusion from this is problematic because that would mean that all magnetical boxes ( the boxes for streamers, amplifiers etc. ) could possible pollute the sound, at least in theory.

I dont think 59 dollars for 4 male banana plugs and 4 female tube connectors made of good unmagnetical material is particulary expensive . Thats about 7 dollars for each item. You can see much worse snakeoil out there than this.

This makes me temted to do my own testing with different RCA plugs using a magnet. Are there any good cheap ones ?

By the way I use this banana connectors from stäubli - they are cheap and good .

 

[ctrl]

Yes, and speakers too. But the problem is when the signal goes THROUGH a magnetic wire. Transformers use copper wire.

This is something easily forgotten. This is also probably true using different RCA connectors , not just loudspeaker terminals. But how much does a magnetic contact change the signal ? I guess everything from between nothing to just barely measurable, - but is it audible ?

The effects of magnetic materials in binding posts are extremely small.

Low effects on harmonic distortions were measured when high powers flow through the binding post.
Effects on frequency response are practically non-existent.

The details can be found in this post in the binding post thread. There is also the link to the Buckeye Amp review where the small effects were measured.

The effects are so small that the distortion of the speaker is always several orders of magnitude greater than that of the magnetic BP and with increasing SPL, the human ear becomes increasingly insensitive to harmonic distortion.

 

[Tangband]

The effects of magnetic materials in binding posts are extremely small.

Low effects on harmonic distortions were measured when high powers flow through the binding post.
Effects on frequency response are practically non-existent.

The details can be found in this post in the binding post thread. There is also the link to the Buckeye Amp review where the small effects were measured.

The effects are so small that the distortion of the speaker is always several orders of magnitude greater than that of the magnetic BP and with increasing SPL, the human ear becomes increasingly insensitive to harmonic distortion.

Thanks for this teaching.

Different Binding Posts - is it audible?

Not only difficult to hear, difficult to measure! The resistance change of the entire loop: cable >> terminal >> loudspeaker >> terminal >> cable Is just about zero. You missed my reply of an example that… …reducing the cable resistance less than 1/6 of .1 ohms (0.0149835 ohms) increased the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

You wrote:

”To answer the question very specifically, for "inexpensive, basic" speakers, a little steel in the BP has so little effect that it's not worth replacing the BP - IMHO.
With high quality speakers I would replace steel BP, not because I would expect any sound differences, but to keep possible "errors" in playback as small as possible (even if they are inaudible).


3. Why didn't you notice the increase in distortion when using steel BP (made of nails) in your measurements? Loser!

As can be seen above (green arrows in power vs. distortion diagram above), a noticeable increase in distortion only takes place from about 20W power and more.
At 20W the difference in THD+N is -97dB (0.0014%) to -107dB (0.00044%). This is not measurable on an actual speaker itself, since no speaker shows such low distortion at 20W. ”

————

My comments : The SINAD apparently gets worse with the steel contacts, from -107 to -97 at 20 W . Why compromise with bad terminals and loose 10 dB of SINAD when we at the same time chase SINAD values of better than -115 dB in DAC reviews ?

 

[ctrl]

My comments : The SINAD apparently gets worse with the steel contacts, from -107 to -97 at 20 W . Why compromise with bad terminals and loose 10 dB of SINAD when we at the same time chase SINAD values of better than -115 dB in DAC reviews ?

In the case of electronic devices with low distortion I agree with you, there the magnetic binding posts objectively have a tiny negative influence.
So it makes sense for a manufacturer to replace magnetic BP with better ones, as this improves their product.

In the case of speakers with "normal" or rather high distortion, replacing the BP makes little sense, since the influence is not measurable and very, very likely not audible. Spend 20 bucks on new BP on 200 bucks speaker doesn't make sense to me.

Those who replace the BP for a "good feeling" can of course do so

 

[fpitas]

Those who replace the BP for a "good feeling" can of course do so

That's my take on it. Maybe to them it will sound better.

 

[musicforcities]

Why has this thread risen from the ashes?

 

[fpitas]

Why has this thread risen from the ashes?

We're obsessing about magnetic binding posts. Somebody has to do it.

 

[musicforcities]

If you're on a budget, a simple barrier strip is a good option:

Cinch Jones - 1941529A2 - 2-140 - Terminal Strip / Block. Dual Barrier, 2 Position, 2 x 2 Screw.

Cinch Jones - 1941529A2 - 2-140 - Terminal Strip / Block. Dual Barrier, Non-Feed Through 2 Position, 2 x 2 Screw. Insulation Material: Molded monoblock, general purpose Phenolic, black, UL Rated 94V-1 Eyelets: Material - Brass, Nickel Plated Voltage Rating: 250VACrms Current Rating: 15A Screw...

www.electronicsurplus.com

Not pretty, but electrically sound.

I would avoid anything that audiophiles recommend, just on principle.

Indeed, if made out of decent material (steel, breads, plated copper) these types should be pretty great with small spades or bare wire. If you can get thick wire in them. Far better than standard banana plugs. Not that it will make any difference.

Come to thick of it, the new Wagu type lever nut connectors for electrical wiring should be pretty great as well. They are like spring terminals in a way, but the lever action apples a great deal of pressure creating an air tight grip on the wire (it will deform solid wire a bit where it clamps) and usually cant be pulled out without breaking the wire.