Tube connectors. Wtf

[wjp007]

I ran across this “tube connector” from “GR Research” those dudes who make $300 crossover mods for $200 speakers. Their claims regarding the tube connectors are snake oil and the prices ludicrous for what they are. They are little more than a female banana plug (copper gold plated ones available on Amazon for pennies each, not $50/pair+) or a male to male adapter (a 4mm tube of plated copper, a pack of 8 for a few bucks on amazon) with the internal wire soldered to one end end the other end stuck in a hole drilled through the speaker do the same?

However i do have a question regarding the premise that “low mass” connectors are somehow better. Presuming the connectors are decent conductive material abs area of contact equal wouldn’t more mass generally mean less resistance (within reason)

I ask because speakon connectors seem to be “low mass” as well. And I have been thinking about using them for a refurb. Not sure it’s worth the hassle however. So was just curious if there is some basis for the low mass idea.

Anyway, if one hates binding posts so much, there is already a professional standard developed…Speakon. one could even go 4 pole for biamping if that’s ones sort of thing. One hole in the cabinet gives 2-4 connections. Think of how much space could be saved!

Have the dudes at GR never heard of those? They could offer cyro frozen ones with carbon fiber housing gs if they really want to bilk some consumer.

Sorry it was just the most bananas, relatively overpriced, and misleading, snake oil tweak I have seen since audioquest put unconnected batteries on cables.

I do think this is snake oil, but there is a technical reason on why a hollow conductor is used at times for AC signals. This is due to the skin effect where the current on an AC signal tends to gravitate to the surface of the conductor. You get more surface area on a hollow conductor and less inductance. But for short length low frequency speaker connectors like these, I can't see it making any difference.

 

[mightycicadalord]

Here is a video… I smell a bit of oil…

Thoughts, please…

Watching him not know how to disengage a speakon connection physically hurt me.

 

[mhardy6647]

I do think this is snake oil, but there is a technical reason on why a hollow conductor is used at times for AC signals. This is due to the skin effect where the current on an AC signal tends to gravitate to the surface of the conductor. You get more surface area on a hollow conductor and less inductance. But for short length low frequency speaker connectors like these, I can't see it making any difference.

ummm... true but irrelevant at audio frequencies.

 

[JSmith]

I can't see it making any difference

It doesn't;

Technical Article: Does Audio Cable Skin Effect Matter

Mod note: our technical expert @DonH56 wrote this series article a while back. As I get time, I am porting them here. Alternating current carriers in a conductor tend to travel near the surface. This happens due to opposing eddy currents from the magnetic field generated whenever alternating...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Skin Effect Relevance in Speaker Cables

Skin Effect is a real problem in high frequency E&M; transmission but does it matter in speaker cables at audio frequencies? This article explores that very topic.

www.audioholics.com

JSmith

 

[avidedtr]

I use Cardas CPBP. Zero complaints in 14 years

 

[mhardy6647]

You know, it's funny: when I think of tube connectors, I envision something more along the lines of...

 

[sq225917]

I do think this is snake oil, but there is a technical reason on why a hollow conductor is used at times for AC signals. This is due to the skin effect where the current on an AC signal tends to gravitate to the surface of the conductor. You get more surface area on a hollow conductor and less inductance. But for short length low frequency speaker connectors like these, I can't see it making any difference.

It makes no difference at audio frequencies full stop. Go look at a radio transmitter station and see where they use transmission lines to really counter skin effect. Mhz and kilowatts, no less....

 

[ROOSKIE]

I ran across this “tube connector” from “GR Research” those dudes who make $300 crossover mods for $200 speakers. Their claims regarding the tube connectors are snake oil and the prices ludicrous for what they are. They are little more than a female banana plug (copper gold plated ones available on Amazon for pennies each, not $50/pair+) or a male to male adapter (a 4mm tube of plated copper, a pack of 8 for a few bucks on amazon) with the internal wire soldered to one end end the other end stuck in a hole drilled through the speaker do the same?

However i do have a question regarding the premise that “low mass” connectors are somehow better. Presuming the connectors are decent conductive material abs area of contact equal wouldn’t more mass generally mean less resistance (within reason)

I ask because speakon connectors seem to be “low mass” as well. And I have been thinking about using them for a refurb. Not sure it’s worth the hassle however. So was just curious if there is some basis for the low mass idea.

Anyway, if one hates binding posts so much, there is already a professional standard developed…Speakon. one could even go 4 pole for biamping if that’s ones sort of thing. One hole in the cabinet gives 2-4 connections. Think of how much space could be saved!

Have the dudes at GR never heard of those? They could offer cyro frozen ones with carbon fiber housing gs if they really want to bilk some consumer.

Sorry it was just the most bananas, relatively overpriced, and misleading, snake oil tweak I have seen since audioquest put unconnected batteries on cables.

I switched some of my DIY projects over to Speakon.
Because binding posts stick out and are generally shinny or obvious in some way, I want them to look nice.
I actually prefer binding posts but Speakon connectors actually cost much less in bulk vs attractive binding posts and since they don't stand out I feel the design can get away with being plain looking.

The real problem is trying to use Speakon for gear meant for others, most folks do not want them and you can not use bare wire with them which I feel is an asset for binding posts.

I actually be interested in the tube connectors but the price is absurd. I like the simplicity of them and based on their design parameter they could be sold in packs of 10 for like $20. Maybe someone will take that route. Right now GR obviously is making good money as-is. Really though sound improvement BS aside, the design is nice.

 

[sq225917]

Deltron speaker ugs with the captive spring bar in the centre pin. That's all you need upto 4mm thick if bare wire isn't your thing.

 

[tomchr]

An expensive improvised banana connection. A normal banana connector is much cheaper.

I've lost track of the number of times I've had to jiggle and rotate the banana plugs on my test leads to prevent them from degrading the THD+N measurement I was trying to take. I've seen 20+ dB degradation in THD+N from banana plugs. Granted, I generally play below -120 dBc THD, so it doesn't take much to degrade the measurement, but still. The banana plug is a fundamentally flawed connector. It's fine for a small benchtop power supply, but not for a high-current audio link such as a speaker cable.

Just use speakON.

Tom

 

[kchap]

I've lost track of the number of times I've had to jiggle and rotate the banana plugs on my test leads to prevent them from degrading the THD+N measurement I was trying to take. I've seen 20+ dB degradation in THD+N from banana plugs. Granted, I generally play below -120 dBc THD, so it doesn't take much to degrade the measurement, but still. The banana plug is a fundamentally flawed connector. It's fine for a small benchtop power supply, but not for a high-current audio link such as a speaker cable.

Just use speakON.

Tom

Yes, there are better connectors than banana connectors. The tube connector is not one of them.

 

[DSJR]

Deltron speaker ugs with the captive spring bar in the centre pin. That's all you need upto 4mm thick if bare wire isn't your thing.

No good if you use them a lot as I once did - the spring bar fatigues and-or comes out. maybe not an issue for domestic use, but in a dem room, we had to replace them regularly. I rather like the segmented types which offer a form but consistent connection and personally use the frail but effective 'Z types' which solder directly to the cable.

Having typed the above, I can see now the advantages of a tightly fitting spade connection, as long as the cables aren't snagged with risk of shorts.

 

[tomchr]

... and as long as you get a gas tight crimp on the spade.

Tom

 

[Glint]

Watching him not know how to disengage a speakon connection physically hurt me.

4:22 for reference lol

the man's clearly an expert on connectors :/

 

[Simply Stereo]

This guy is poison. We are starting to get customers in here asking about tube connectors* and stuff. No matter how much logic we try to throw at them, they're just dead set on believing this guy, and it consumes them.

*realistically, two people, out of thousands, but still.

 

[Scrappy]

I ran across this “tube connector” from “GR Research” those dudes who make $300 crossover mods for $200 speakers. Their claims regarding the tube connectors are snake oil and the prices ludicrous for what they are. They are little more than a female banana plug (copper gold plated ones available on Amazon for pennies each, not $50/pair+) or a male to male adapter (a 4mm tube of plated copper, a pack of 8 for a few bucks on amazon) with the internal wire soldered to one end end the other end stuck in a hole drilled through the speaker do the same?

However i do have a question regarding the premise that “low mass” connectors are somehow better. Presuming the connectors are decent conductive material abs area of contact equal wouldn’t more mass generally mean less resistance (within reason)

I ask because speakon connectors seem to be “low mass” as well. And I have been thinking about using them for a refurb. Not sure it’s worth the hassle however. So was just curious if there is some basis for the low mass idea.

Anyway, if one hates binding posts so much, there is already a professional standard developed…Speakon. one could even go 4 pole for biamping if that’s ones sort of thing. One hole in the cabinet gives 2-4 connections. Think of how much space could be saved!

Have the dudes at GR never heard of those? They could offer cyro frozen ones with carbon fiber housing gs if they really want to bilk some consumer.

Sorry it was just the most bananas, relatively overpriced, and misleading, snake oil tweak I have seen since audioquest put unconnected batteries on cables.

>cyro frozen ones with carbon fiber housing

Ha!

 

[boogers]

I am new to "hifi" but it seems that Danny's tube connectors make sense. If you think about it, what is the purest connection from power amp to the driver/crossover? A single pair of speaker wire. The tube connectors seem to be the closes to that state than anything out there. And if you watch the video, he also broke down the cost of his kit vs the rest. NOTE: I am not at the point of raising my speaker cables off the ground. I just like listening to music.

 

[BDWoody]

I am new to "hifi" but it seems that Danny's tube connectors make sense.

Welcome!

I hope you stick around and keep reading. As someone new to the hobby, hold on tight to your wallet until you can see through more of the silliness. There are many out there who sell based on a story, and not on reality. A little time spent on your own education will serve you well for the rest of your Hi Fi journey.

Danny is one of them. These connectors won't sound any better or worse than any other competent connection.

 

[Killingbeans]

A lot of fancy words, but no specification of the contact resistance. You'd think that when this is his key selling point, he'd proudly display that number on the product page.

Of cource that would let people do the math that shows why it's a pointless product....

 

[Rick Sykora]

My younger son just bought an older home and part of it is still knob and tube wiring. Reminded me of GR’s tube connector and then realized the older tube is an insulator rather than a conductor. Maybe his next tube connector claim will be it is also a better insulator!

I recently came across another GR speaker upgrade video. After showing a woofer resonance issue, his fix was to replace the driver with one of his own. He had to mold an adapter ring to get his smaller woofer to fit. I have noticed that his range of driver choices is limited to the ones he sells. Ofc, the kit includes his tube connectors and was a mere $500 upgrade for his mods to a $500 (a pair) speaker set.