Tripp Lite IS250 Review (Isolation Transformer)

[beagleman]

Tripp Lite IS250

Amazon

Amazon.com

Resized and optimized

View attachment 198460

So you are basically removing the ground function entirely, and replacing the 3 prong outlet with a "New" 3-Prong, but using an isolated outlet, that does not conduct TO the chassis........Correct?

 

[PeteL]

Not missing a thing. You didn't read the review. This product is 100% mains referenced as I wrote. I reviewed what is sold. Not whatever you have on your bench which won't pass certification.

I don't think you reviewed what is sold. What is sold is not a device designed to increase fidelity of DACS. They make no claim about that neither. What we want to know is how it performs as an Isolation transformer, that's what is sold. Are you implying that no audio device that has passed certification can possibly transfer an electrically induced audible Hum trough the audio chain? The question is how effective is it at doing that. I don't know that from the review.

 

[beagleman]

And you would get UL certification how?

UL certification is VERY expensive.
I can not even count the number of "Products" we would ship out to be tested, have them arrive back, utterly destroyed, tear them down and access what "Issues" they had from the destructive testing.

They do not approve a product based on testing ONE prototype, but there has to be several Semi production line items sent, and ALL have to pass with utter perfection.

It gets VERY expensive. Usually testing is also done to other European standards also.

 

[Lambda]

people buy these boxes with seemingly no audible mains noise so that can't be the reason for purchase.

It is clear that neither you nor PMA have any idea of who buys these to tweak their audio systems and confusing them with others used for safety reasons

So you seam worry people "misinterpreting" the marketing.

But on the other hand you seam not to worry that people might misinterpreting your conclusion?

our testing shows that no performance improvement can be had. And you can actually subject your audio system to mains noise due to strong field that the transformer generates.

Based on comments like this i would assume not every reader gets the full story:

Snake oil alarm again.

Another myth bites the dust.

I would even disagree on your conclusion.

testing shows that no performance improvement can be had.

This was in fact never shown and is also not true.

You ware unable to demonstrate performance improvement in your specific test setup.
But it is in no way the same as saying:
It can’t improve performance at all in every case/system.

That’s the general problem with proving a negative.

 

[Count Arthur]

And there's good chemical reasons for that. Nothing mysterious.

Yes, it makes sense, but if silver cutlery is so bad, it makes you wonder why it was used so widely and for so long; at least in wealthier households and upmarket restaurants.

I had a lightweight titanium spork, for camping, that was unusable; it created a sort of battery effect when you put it in your mouth - very unpleasant. Another one I have is fine.

Anyway, back to isolation transformers.

 

[Deleted member 21114]

Sterling silver was less reactive than the alternatives at the time, copper and iron alloys. It still is pretty good.
To steer back to the topic: Sterling comes from the Greek word for solid - stereos.

Anyway, back to isolation transformers.

 

[pkane]

I don't think you reviewed what is sold. What is sold is not a device designed to increase fidelity of DACS. They make no claim about that neither. What we want to know is how it performs as an Isolation transformer, that's what is sold. Are you implying that no audio device that has passed certification can possibly transfer an electrically induced audible Hum trough the audio chain? The question is how effective is it at doing that. I don't know that from the review.

I get that the device might be useful for certain things. But the review clearly stated, right at the top:

"This is a review and detailed measurements of the Tripp Lite IS250 Isolation Transformer in the context of audio performance."

Whether you want something else or not, this is what the review was testing. If you hang around true audiophiles for a bit, you'll know just how often isolation transformers are used to improve "audio performance" with no regard to what the device actually does, any measurements or proper testing. It's the word "isolation" that leads many to believe that this must be a key component in their system, simply because who would want to connect their $50k stereo to a dirty and noisy AC mains? Isolation is a must, of course, and any product that has that word in the name must improve audio, by definition!

 

[peng]

The only thing 'biting the dust' is ASR's credibility.

I don't see why..

Tell that to this Amazon buyer of this product:

"Tripp Lite IS-250 250W I got this to clean up some ac noise in my audio setup with turntable. Didn't do much."

It is clear that neither you nor PMA have any idea of who buys these to tweak their audio systems and confusing them with others used for safety reasons on a workbench.

They are knowledgeable in audio devices but do get ahead of themselves sometimes, but then don't we all do that sometimes lol.. I feel that while they were right about what they were saying, but sort of misrepresenting what you presented, at least to some extent.

It was a good thing though, that you included the following in your conclusion:

So while this device is fine, its use for audio performance improvement is not recommended. Save your money for something else.

and responded when someone seemingly activated the false snake oil alarm:

To be fair to Tripp Lite, they don't make these for audiophiles. Or make any audio claims for them.

 

[DSJR]

Is this unit wired the same as the 'Balanced Mains Transformers' that kicked up a storm in the UK a few years back?

The more industrial 'Airlink' versions had metal cases with trips fitted for safety, but there was another 1000VA unit (which started the controversy) in a thick perspex case (so no external metal connection parts to the transformer inside, which was 'potted' into place anyway) with jusy 13A sockets on top and a heavy duty trailing mains cable with fused 13A plug on the end. Some claimed these 'balanced' units made for a beneficial audible difference akin to upgrading an interconnect (make of that the way you 'feel' about such things). I used one for a few years and felt the sound wasn't quite as good without it. A total system change in that room made it surplus.

 

[pma]

I have a clear evidence that the properly chosen isolation transformer works for a standard SE link audio transfer. Below is a THD 1kHz vs. power plot of a power amplifier in class I (analog ground connected to chassis and mains protective earth) which is driven from a PC with USB soundcard. The PC was once connected directly to mains as a class I component (PC ground connected to protective earth) and then via a true certified isolation transformer (no PE connection). The SE link cable length between PC and the amp was 2m, both the amp and the PC were connected to the same wall plug. The difference is clear and is bigger at lower power, as expected. The ground loop rises and modulates the noise floor and also brings some USB artifacts. The elevated noise floor and artifacts of the class I - class I connection are audible.

 

[Lambda]

It was a good thing though, that you included the following in your conclusion:

It is imported to make clear what the scope of the testing is
Like in this review:

Jensen ISO-Max CI-1RR Review (Isolation Transformer)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Jensen ISO-MAX CI-1RR isolation transformer usually used to remove ground loops. It was kindly bought and drop shipped to me by the member and costs US $130. This is a mono device and could not be simpler with just an input and output: No...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The product makes the audio quality actually worse! but it can fix a specific issue and so it gets a recommendation.

In case of this product it was not "used as intended" (as a fix for a specific issue) but it was tested as general improvement device.
Of cause is not a magical general improvement device.
Sure some also view and uses the jensen-iso-max as an magical general improvement device?!

and any product that has that word in the name must improve audio, by definition!

And you can’t improve on something that is already perfect.
a Topping amp directly on AP analyzer... very close to perfect. very hard to improve on this. also not very representative to what most users have at home.

Even for those who believe the magical general improvement device hypothesis.
Very "unfair" test for an magical improvement device if there is almost nothing to improve upon?

 

[pkane]

And you can’t improve on something that is already perfect.
a Topping amp directly on AP analyzer... very close to perfect. very hard to improve on this. also not very representative to what most users have at home.

Even for those who believe the magical general improvement device hypothesis.
Very "unfair" test for an magical improvement device if there is almost nothing to improve upon?

Yeah, try to convince a subjectivist audiophile that there's nothing to improve when using an inexpensive Chinese-made audio device.

 

[filo97s]

Snake oil alarm again. Why does man invent a device that induces electromagnetic interference radiation in hi-fi devices??? The simplest way to filter interference is in the linear power supply.

For me, actually this is not a good advertising for the Topping either.
I'm expecting that a device that has the ambition to be amongst the best amplifiers in the world has also a good EM shielding.

 

[Count Arthur]

Is this unit wired the same as the 'Balanced Mains Transformers' that kicked up a storm in the UK a few years back?

The more industrial 'Airlink' versions had metal cases with trips fitted for safety, but there was another 1000VA unit (which started the controversy) in a thick perspex case (so no external metal connection parts to the transformer inside, which was 'potted' into place anyway) with jusy 13A sockets on top and a heavy duty trailing mains cable with fused 13A plug on the end. Some claimed these 'balanced' units made for a beneficial audible difference akin to upgrading an interconnect (make of that the way you 'feel' about such things). I used one for a few years and felt the sound wasn't quite as good without it. A total system change in that room made it surplus.

Airlink still sell them: https://airlinktransformers.com/category/balanced-power-supply

Regardles of their efficacy, I think they are quite reasonably priced compared to many exclusively audio focussed brands.

For example, Russ Abbot Andrews: https://www.russandrews.com/balanced-mains-units/

 

[peng]

It is imported to make clear what the scope of the testing is
Like in this review:

Jensen ISO-Max CI-1RR Review (Isolation Transformer)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Jensen ISO-MAX CI-1RR isolation transformer usually used to remove ground loops. It was kindly bought and drop shipped to me by the member and costs US $130. This is a mono device and could not be simpler with just an input and output: No...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The product makes the audio quality actually worse! but it can fix a specific issue and so it gets a recommendation.

In case of this product it was not "used as intended" (as a fix for a specific issue) but it was tested as general improvement device.
Of cause is not a magical general improvement device.
Sure some also view and uses the jensen-iso-max as an magical general improvement device?!

I have a clear evidence that the properly chosen isolation transformer works for a standard SE link audio transfer. Below is a THD 1kHz vs. power plot of a power amplifier in class I (analog ground connected to chassis and mains protective earth) which is driven from a PC with USB soundcard. The PC was once connected directly to mains as a class I component (PC ground connected to protective earth) and then via a true certified isolation transformer (no PE connection). The SE link cable length between PC and the amp was 2m, both the amp and the PC were connected to the same wall plug. The difference is clear and is bigger at lower power, as expected. The ground loop rises and modulates the noise floor and also brings some USB artifacts. The elevated noise floor and artifacts of the class I - class I connection are audible.



View attachment 198476

Fully agree!!

That's another reason why I feel it would unfair to say Amir's review/comments hurt ASR credibility. He did not make any general statement about the effects, better or worse of using isolating transformers. Results would depend on specific cases. As pma just cited in one case, the device worked as intended, or claimed.

I would agree that Amir could use clearer narrative to avoid, or minimize misunderstandings by readers, or even misleading some, but again that's hard to do on forums. A good example that I cited many times is Amir's often quoted D+M 1.4 V pre out comments, that clearly misled many ASR posters to think those D or M AVRs (even the Marantz AVPs, if you think about it) are only good up to 1.4 V if preamp mode is not used, though I am sure that's wasn't his intention.

 

[phoenixsong]

Will the Topping HS01 work better?

*Nvm I just saw they are very different products

 

[Sputnik]

Bottom line is the TrippLite is not being marketed as such. What deluded people do with products is hardly the responsibility of an individual to 'expose' or protect them from, is it? It is not up to Amir to 'save' a bunch of misguided audiophools from their own ignorance or misguided stupidity, is it? What ever happened to critical thinking?

Company reputations are being damaged (and may incure financial losses) by incorrect testing methodology, incorrect assumptions and/or blatant ignorance as to the functionality of the devices being tested.

A member donated to have this device tested specifically for audio use. Jsmith linked a few audio forums that discuss this for audio use.

Why shouldn't test Amir it for audio use? It's clear that some people want to know if it helps/harms.

If they incur losses because they now sell less devices to people who thought about using it for audio, so what? All Amir does is inform that it does not have positive effects on audio. On an audio forum. His own audio forum.

You're acting like he's Elon Musk who tweets that a company is shit. Try to put things in perspective.

Many people think putting tennis balls or squash balls under audio equipment improves sound. Amir is not allowed to test this and write about it on his own forum, because it could hurt tennis ball makers?

Maybe you should just not read these reviews if they upset you so much?

 

[Lambda]

, try to convince subjectivist audiophile that there's nothing to improve when using an inexpensive Chinese-made audio device.

Yeah they are better convinced if you show them lots of measurements and graphs that have nothing to do with the performance or function of an isolation transformer.
But since they are only stupid subjectivist audiophile that don’t understand any of this anyways you might as well put some impulse response graphs in there because. more graphs = more science = more convincing?

Of cause not. the answer is as very often you need to educate to convince. (and audiophile need to be willing to get educated, you cant force this on them)

Show what a transformer can and can’t do. Why they are used. in what ceases they would work. so people understand where the Myth is coming from. but see why the improvement only works in some special cases and not in general.

But purring distilled water trough a water filter to show it dose nothing to it? i don’t think its convincing to subjectivists?

He did not make any general statement about the effects, better or worse of using isolating transformers. Results would depend on specific cases.

This might very possibly just a misunderstand or language barrier then. But to me this is a general statement:

our testing shows that no performance improvement can be had.

Maybe i’m misreading this?

There are rare edge ceases / problems where a isolating transformers helps to eliminate some noise and hence cause "performance improvement"

 

[kchap]

Taking a completely different path if you prepared hundreds of dollars on a mains isolation transformer what about taking the approach of using audio transformers.

 

[solderdude]

People that do not have some kind of electrical issue and buy something like this to 'improve audio' will enjoy audio more as they believe it works and so it does to them even when nothing changed electrically in any significant way.
Some folks won't know until they tried.

People experiencing some issues with mains that the device can actually solve might be getting rid of weird noises coming through mains (in some way).

People having issues with ground loops MIGHT be able to solve it when strategically used.

Soooo... don't expect sound quality to improve unless you believe in 'audio magic' or you have clearly mains related issues that can't be solved in easier or more economic sound ways.

I understand people want it tested for 'audio improvements' which it won't.
Now that we have seen filters, isolators, 'regenerators' etc tested including fancy mains cables and other tweaks one could say... we have seen it doesn't matter in 'normal' circumstances and weird circumstances have not been tested so we don't really know.

I would suggest to focus on audio gear, speakers, headphones and IEMs instead.